RCCrawler Forums

RCCrawler Forums (http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/)
-   EnRoute Berg (http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/enroute-berg/)
-   -   New gearbox and gear options (http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/enroute-berg/423895-new-gearbox-gear-options.html)

Erik D_lux 01-19-2013 03:53 PM

New gearbox and gear options
 
It seems like every day just gets better for us Berg guys and our options.

Here are some new gear box and gear options that are similar to the Berg. Big thanks to Tgreer for pushing me to check these out.

Tgreer asked me to check out the Exceed Mad Torque cars but I just have too much going on to take on a parts line for a whole new car. The gears and gear boxes are Berg knock offs. I didnít know at the time that so many parts had the opportunity to cross over to the Berg. After doing a bit of research, it looks like the Mad Torque guys have figured out that Berg parts are somewhat crossing over but nobody has ever made the connection that MT parts will cross over to the Berg.

As far as I can tell with working with these, the gears and gear boxes will be all we will want to take from these cars. If you wanted to go the super cheap route, you could use the tubes also but then youre stuck working with custom axle shafts. The chub on the MT axle tube is pretty similar, just a touch narrower than the AX10 chub so, all of the AX10 and Berg knuckles should work.

So, while I am open for discussion on the MT tubes, I am going to focus on the gears and gear boxes as that is what value I see in them at this point. I think these options could work out great. They could cater to anybody who is super cheap and just wants to get into the hobby and they will also work for the guys looking for cutting edge goods. These would be the cheapest and lightest MOA axles. How often do you hear those words together?

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps3b38ff90.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps0a12dafb.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...pscda67686.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps1fbc070b.jpg

Erik D_lux 01-19-2013 03:54 PM

Re: New gearbox and gear options
 
Pros of the MT gears/gear boxes:
  • Dirt cheap
  • Super light weight
  • Appears that there is an unlimited supply of cases and gears
  • Gears are 6mm wide vs. stock Berg at 3.5mm (strength)
  • Plastic or steel gears are available
  • No more buying complete Berg axles just to acquire the gears and boxes
  • It looks like there may be more room between the axle tube and motor making the 86 steering mod easier and more ideal.

Cons of the MT gears/gear boxes:
  • Gears are 6mm wide vs. stock Berg at 3.5mm (weight)
  • Gears and boxes need modification to work other than stock configuration
  • Case is approx .060 wider at the front and a bit wider at the back
  • Being that the case is constructed of plastic, there may be stripping issues. Not a big deal though as you just replace a case for the price.

Erik D_lux 01-19-2013 03:55 PM

Re: New gearbox and gear options
 
I found all the parts here:
NitroRCX.com - Lowest Price for Nitro RC Cars and Trucks

Sit down for just a secondÖ here are the prices we are talking aboutÖ
$2.50 per gear box!
$3.60 per set of plastic gears!
$5 per set of steel gears!

Shipping is even reasonable at $4.95

When I ordered the steel gears, they also had the steel locker included but that is a moot point since you I donít think you can use it.

The gear box comes with bearings but you will most likely want to throw them in the trash. Right out of the package, mine had a lot more play in them then considered acceptable.

Erik D_lux 01-19-2013 03:57 PM

Re: New gearbox and gear options
 
As I said above, the 3 appeals to these are cost, lightweight and availability. Cost and availability are obvious, letís see how much weight can be shed.

Stockish (shaved) Berg gear box 50g

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...g/100_1669.jpg

Berg gear box with all the lightweight bells and whistles ~41g (you lose another 4-5g with a clear gear box cover that is not shown)

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...g/100_1779.jpg

MT gear box, stock 37g

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps07dfec5c.jpg

For gear weights, I will just go over the large gears. For the most part, I think you would want to use Berg small gears. I will go over this later

Stock Berg 12g + 12g + 13g = 37g

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...g/100_1664.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...g/100_1630.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...g/100_1627.jpg

You can modify the stock gears to reduce weight. Depending on the way you go about it, approx. 12g weight loss per gear box. Call it 25g ballpark

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...g/IMG_9957.jpg

MT plastic gears 8g

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...psa55694b3.jpg

MT 6mm steel gears 52g

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps1720bfdb.jpg

Erik D_lux 01-19-2013 03:59 PM

Re: New gearbox and gear options
 
Now, for the most confusing part of all. How to make it all work and all the different setups you can use. I will try to explain the best I can.

MT gears will NOT work in the Berg case. They are 6mm wide which takes up too much room. If it came down to it and there were no more Berg gears to be found, you could narrow the gears up and run them. We have Berg gears, HR gears, soon to be RC bros gears and another company is working on theirs now too. I think our gears are covered well enough that we will not have to put these into Berg gear boxes.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...psfbf5bbfe.jpg

No matter what combo you run, you will have to switch out the MT locker for a Berg locker. The slot on the MT locker is too big and the Berg shafts will not work. Unfortunately, when Exceed made these gear boxes, they made them with slight differences everywhere. If you run MT gears, you will need to machine the inside of the 4th gear and drill and counter sink new holes. The MT holes have the wrong bolt pattern. If you run the Berg locker and Berg 4th gear, no mods are necessary.

Picture of the MT 4th gear on a Berg/Rc bros locker. The holes are lined up with the MT holes and Berg locker to see the difference.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps7215d82d.jpg

Picture of what the stock 4th gear looks like compared to what it needs to look like after machining to fit the Berg locker.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps58b6b37d.jpg

Berg gears CAN work in the MT gear box. You will need all Berg parts (small gears, large gears and locker). You will also need some adapters that I have made along with a couple of bearings.

The plastic MT plastic gears could be ULTRA SWEET if they hold up. I think there is a chance of them working in the rear of a 2.2, maybe even in the front (???). Running plastic gears is the only situation where I would also try running the MT small 2nd and 3rd. I think for all other situations youíre wasting your time not running Berg style 2nds and 3rds.

To run MT steel gears or plastic gears in the Berg case:
Does not work without machining the gears from 6mm to 3.5mm wide.

To run MT steel gears or plastic gears in the MT case with MT small gears:
Nothing needed. Put in the MT stock gears and peel out.

To run MT steel gears or plastic gears in the MT case with Berg small gears:
Machine out the inside of the 4th gear, drill and counter sink new holes to mount Berg locker
You will need an adapter (I will make these) and some bearings for the small Berg gears to convert
All Berg small gears will need 2.5mm pins installed

To run Berg gears with Berg small gears in the MT case:
You will need an adapter (I will make these) and some bearings for the small Berg gears to convert.

Info on putting all Berg gears into MT housings using the DLUX adapters and necessary bearings:
Nothing changes in the locker/4th gear
You need to modify the motor side of the case. The large 3rd and large 2nd ended up getting pushed further towards the motor.

You will need to drill a hole in the small 2nd bearing pocket. Put the bearing in and then use the drill. This will ensure you drill accurately. If you have a 5mm drill bit, perfect. If not, a 3/16 or 13/64 will work just fine with some work. If you use a 13/64, you wont be able to use the bearing as a guide. Use the 3/16 as a pilot hole and then step up to the 13/64.

The large 3rd needs to have the case ground. You can do this a lot of different ways. When I try to do things the first time, I make sure I dont use fancy tools such as my mill so I can be sure you guys can do the same. I ended up using an exacto knife for the most part and then cleaned up with my dremel.

Thats it for the case mods.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps3fede98e.jpg

The bearing/gear/adapter setup is different now. Here is the current configuration, motor side to non motor side:

2nd
5x10x3 bearing, gears, adapter for 2nd, 6x10x3 bearing, .5mm shim

3rd
.5mm shim, 5x10x4 bearing, gears, adapter for 3rd, 5x10x4 bearing, .5mm shim.

Erik D_lux 01-19-2013 04:00 PM

Re: New gearbox and gear options
 
Now that the gear possibilities have been gone over I will talk about the rest that needs to be done.

Upper link mount:
You will need to drill new holes for a new upper link mount. The stock MT link mount will not work. Any of the Berg upper mounts should work just fine.

Tubes:
You can use DLUX rear tubes with very minor mods.

The external bearing pocket on the MT gear box is 18mm. The bearing hole on the DLUX Berg tubes are approx. 17.5mm. You would need to ACCURATELY bore these out. If itís not accurate, it will not be centered on the gear box. I would be happy to provide the service for new or past orders.

If you shave a small corner on the tube (that has the clearance for the bearing) one of the holes will line up to bolt the tube to the gear box. After that, just drill 3 new holes, tap them and youíre set.

For the rear, the length of the tubes will be fine since you can adjust the lockout. For the front, since the gear box is .060 wider, you will want to take .030 off each tube. Again, I can provide this service if needed.

Total DLUX setup 144g - 5oz

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps29f2362c.jpg

In summary, this is all easily achieved. The only parts that would really be needed is to modify some tubes (good as done) and depending on the gear configuration, you may need to have some mild machine work done that I would be happy to help with. If there is a big demand for the adapters that need to be made to run Berg small gears in the MT case I can make those manually or CNC a bunch. CNC is much cheaper but I would need interest to run a batch.

bquin 01-19-2013 04:15 PM

Re: New gearbox and gear options
 
:shock::shock::shock:

Tgreer 01-19-2013 04:23 PM

Re: New gearbox and gear options
 
This is excactly what I wanted!!!! I just needed someone with your skills to launch this idea I have had for a while now!!!!

I knew you could work out all the details!!!

Thank you so much for looking at this! I hope it's a help to all the berg guys out there!!!"thumbsup"

I think this could carry over to the super! Probably should use berg gears, and also drill all the way through the case were they mount to each other and use a longer screw with a nut on the other side to sandwich it together!

J-Money 01-19-2013 04:56 PM

Re: New gearbox and gear options
 
Awesome!!!! Thanks for doing the research Eric I can't wait to see the new builds and all the different options everyone is going to use hopefully a game changer"thumbsup"

Farmer 01-19-2013 05:00 PM

Re: New gearbox and gear options
 
Very nice guys, I'm stoked"thumbsup"
Later,
Farmer

Szczerba 01-19-2013 05:06 PM

Nice. Ill read through the thread in a bit.

My cases are waiting at the house

Nimyad 01-19-2013 07:22 PM

Re: New gearbox and gear options
 
This is awesome, thanks for the pm!!! I'll definitely be ordering 2 sets of adapters. I want to run all berg gears in my mt, I can't run wheels weights right now without destroying my small 3rds.

Crawllife 01-20-2013 05:18 AM

Re: New gearbox and gear options
 
Totally awesome. Price point does turn some people away from our hobby. This will certainly help that. If they can be made just as strong, I'm in! Thanks for the ax10 advice this weekend!!

Tgreer 01-20-2013 08:25 AM

Re: New gearbox and gear options
 
Lets see

Dlux tubes front and rear
MT gear boxes front and rear
MT plastic gears rear
RC Bros aluminum gears front
Dlux aluminum rear axle



BERG ANOREXIA.........................:lmao:


The xr guys are going to be so jeleause, these will be the lightest axles on the market!:twisted:

Nimyad 01-20-2013 11:05 AM

Re: New gearbox and gear options
 
I have a couple questions, how do you suggest coverting the berg smalls to 2.5mm, especially when using sds 300m gears? Also why is changing the mt upper link mount neccasary?
Again, I'm super stoked about this!!

GEARSCIENCE 01-20-2013 11:13 AM

Re: New gearbox and gear options
 
Wow great job as always man! Cant wait to order a moded case for my rear axles! Hope those plastic gears hold up too but im not holding my breath :shock:

binaryterror 01-20-2013 12:15 PM

Re: New gearbox and gear options
 
Great info and find. Glad to see our options aren't fully dead yet.

Stick King 01-20-2013 12:41 PM

Oh yea! I like what I see here!!


-Stick King

Beest 01-20-2013 12:48 PM

Re: New gearbox and gear options
 
OUTSTANDING! Ive had these cases on my work bench for months. I'm excited about having a gear case that will not stick to the rocks!

This also opens up the possibility for a Affordable super class rig. Imagine that! :)

I looked on rcx for the plastic gears. Didnt see em under the MT parts. Are they from another exceed rig?



Edit. Looks like they're under the Mad crawler spare parts.

Super Fabrication 01-20-2013 12:55 PM

Re: New gearbox and gear options
 
Wow. I would love to get into supers with one of these. Maybe I can sell my poor try at a clod super and get one:shock:


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:40 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2004-2014 RCCrawler.com