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Old 11-02-2017, 06:42 PM   #21
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Default Re: Wraith trans choices for sand/dunes

All I came up with in 32p for a 1/8" shaft was a 20t... so a little more grinding in the motor mount slots and 20/54 it was! To recap: AE2 ESC, 4s, 12t Titan 550, 20/54, high ratio (1.8:1) transmission, 4) 5 1/4" paddles.

Now, I know those of you following along knew how this would end before it even started, but it only made it maybe 30' across my lawn before smoking the motor. Lot's of smoke. Like "I hope the neighbors don't call the fire department" smoke. This is not a good application for a 550 brushed motor. Back to the drawing board... or, rather, the shelf.
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Old 11-11-2017, 04:48 PM   #22
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Default Re: Wraith trans choices for sand/dunes

I've been playing around with parts that I already have, trying to find a new direction for this car. I'd really like to get more use out of this, so I'm going to let go of the high powered paddle tired setup and go back to brushed with crawler-esque tires. I have no desire to switch this over to a dedicated crawler, rather something I can bash around the yard, or when camping, but still be able to crawl along side my son's Redcat. Surprisingly, none of my 2.2"s clear the steering on this, but I have a set of 1.9"s that do.

Now, ar60's are too wide for my 4.4" tires even with .225 hubs, and the wheelbase is too long, but I think I like the 1.9" wheel itself. Currently considering the 5.4" tall Proline boggers and sticking with .225 hubs. I did find one build that used those tires on ar60's and it looked alright, but I'm hoping the narrower hubs will make it look more proportional. KJ's Toyzuki Bronco

I determined that my AE2 doesn't like me, so I borrowed a Hobbywing wp860 out of another one of my cars. With a 20t motor and 16/87 gearing on 4s, it is just a touch fast (just over 20mph) but didn't have the grunt I wanted on 3s. Switching to a borrowed titan 21t, it's about as fast as I would want on 4s, but was still running a little hot at about 150. I think 15-20mph is getting pretty close to the handling limits of a narrow tire Wraith with stock-ish suspension and I want to end up somewhere in that range. The way I see it, I can either go 3s with a 21t 550 (which I've run in my old Wraith with stock transmission gearing), or 4s with a 27t 550. I'll need to buy a new esc either way, so I can either go with another wp860 with CC bec (like I am currently borrowing) and run 4s, or stick to 3s and go with the ever popular wp1080. I found that 4s can easily make the tightened down clutch slip when crawling, where you'd have to be driving pretty carelessly to make it slip on 3s. Maybe 3s is just the way to go?

I feel like I have ADD with this car, too many rc projects and life distractions does that I guess.
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Old 11-18-2017, 02:17 AM   #23
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Default Re: Wraith trans choices for sand/dunes

Woohoo! My wife picked up a set of the 5.4" Proline Boggers (among other rc goodies!) for me tonight, but I'll have to wait until Christmas to open them. I did at least get a chance (before she hid everything from me) to hold them up next to a stock 2.2 Ripsaw, the 1.9" Boggers are every bit as tall and may even be taller once I squeeze them on to 1" wide wheels. So stinkin cool lookin'! That pretty much sealed the deal for the direction this car is headed. I'm just a set of RC4WD blue/proline rings and a WP1080 away from being up and running with its own parts again.
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Old 12-30-2017, 01:28 AM   #24
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Default Re: Wraith trans choices for sand/dunes

I got the 5.4"/1.9" Proline Boggers mounted up to my Chinese KMC 222's using RC4WD "proline compatible" rings. I didn't even try mounting them with the standard inner rings that came with the wheels, but I'm wondering if that might have gone a bit smoother? Either way, they're all mounted up, using the stock proline foams, they're too soft as expected. I'll try out my 4 1/4" Deuce's Wild foams and a layer of soft proline foam wrapped around that when I'm bored with a few hours to kill.

I also got a new SSD Dana 60 front diff cover that finished off my AR60 very nicely, just had to file a tiny bit of it down so it would play nice with my Dlux U4 truss.

I got the WP1080 mounted under the hood along with the Radiolink receiver, light controller, and ginormous brick of 3s. I switched the 1080's battery plug to Deans (even though I like the XT60 better) just because all of my other cars/ batteries already use Deans. I cut the esc's motor leads shorter and soldered on 4mm bullets so that the connection is easily accessible right under the electronics tray. I soldered on extra long leads to the motor using silicone wire and 4mm bullets, and ground a flat spot in the shaft of a new Electifly S600 19t 550 brushed motor.

I was a bit disappointed to find that neither my 10 nor 12 tooth pinions could get proper mesh with the 54t spur, so I had to go with a 14t for now. I knew that would be pretty tall gearing (for crawling) along with my high ratio transmission, but I gave it a shot anyway. With the drag brake off, the car was a hoot in open terrain, topping out right around 20mph while still being pretty easy to keep on all 4... But it got hot quick when I asked much of it in the rocks. Too hot. More magic smoke! I have another 19t 550 on its way already (giving the Redcat branded one a try this time) along with a Robinson 58t steel spur (from what I could find, this should just barely fit under the cover) which will at least let me run 12/58, and hopefully even 10/58.

Besides killing another motor due to nothing other than over gearing, the car does fairly well in my backyard boulder field. Stiffer foams, lower gearing, and a narrower track width ought to get things moving in the right direction. I don't think LURC's .185" hubs will work with my homemade ackerman arms (though I'm tempted to order some anyway) but a .225 should. I just need to find a reasonable balance of gearing between top speed and motor temperature while crawling now.

I'll try to make those changes in the coming week and report back.
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Old 02-06-2018, 12:15 PM   #25
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Default Re: Wraith trans choices for sand/dunes

I know, I know... worthless without pictures.

I think I've finally zeroed in on my sweet spot. Holmes Hobbies Trailmaster Sport 27t 550 with 11/58 gearing, still running the high-ratio transmission.

My pieced together foams turned out pretty good, good enough that I don't want to change them. I used my Dueces Wild foams with a ~1/2" of the Proline foams around that. The closed cells do slip a little side to side on the wheel, but they keep my tires from wadding up into little balls when I hook an undercut, and the soft outer foams lets the tread conform and gets a "just right" amount of sidewall wrinkle.

I threw on a set of narrow hex's and some of SSD's brake rotor SLW hubs. The hubs fall somewhere between .225"s and .185"s and left exactly one gnat's ass between my sidewall and the rod end on my draglink. Couldn't have asked for a better fit. My track width is about 11 1/4" now, which is still pretty wide, but that's as narrow as it's gonna get without narrowing tubes or switching to short course wheels (neither of which appeal to me.) Of course I still hit/drag the diffs, but it is manageable now and I can generally drive my way around that issue, so I'm happy with the width.

Wanting more front weight bias, I got creative with some black stick on weights and now have 3oz on the back/sides of my servo (which is behind the axle tube.) I was thinking that VP knuckle weights were in my future, but I came across some $24 brass knuckles on ebay that seemed worth a look. I convinced a buddy to be the guinea pig, so he bought a set and I mounted them up for him. The idea behind them is good, but the quality control, fit, and finish all leave a lot to be desired. With a bit of effort, I got everything turning smoothly. Total weight is about 6oz. They also need a .350" hub to clear, so I'm still undecided if I'll order a set for myself. As far as I know, the VP weights will fit my narrow hex's/hubs since they mount entirely behind the pin, but is it worth paying double (not even taking into account the cost of the knuckles themselves)? Meh. We'll see.

With these changes, the Wraith has gone from my least used car, to one of my most used cars, so overall I'm happy that I changed directions.
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Old 03-05-2018, 03:08 PM   #26
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Default Re: Wraith trans choices for sand/dunes

A few more changes...

I switched to a 4mm longer servo horn and forgot to check clearances/set end points before running the car, so I finally killed my mg958. Good excuse to try something new. I ended up going with the $33 mg959v2 which puts out 30kg @ 6v (or 32kg depending where you get your specs) and re-indexed the horn to work with a shorter draglink, no more interference. Power seems totally adequate, and the WP1080's BEC doesn't seem to complain.

I came across a used set of VP knuckle weights here in the classifieds. I'm glad I didn't have to buy new, because I had to grind the crap out of them to work with my home made ackerman arms, probably lost 1/2oz total. In the end, they work with my narrow hex's and hubs, and I'm at 54 of steering... I think I can live with that.

You know how when you go to a hobby shop and they don't have what you needed, but you feel obligated to buy something anyway? Well, I went in for a bunch of bearings, and came out with a set of overdrive gears. I already had underdrive in the back and HD standards up front, but since I was due for new bearings in the front axle anyway, it would only take 4 more screws to change the gears too.

Between the extra knuckle weight, stronger servo, and OD gears, I found myself regularly turning TOO SHARP! It seems foreign to me, NOT having to turn full lock everytime I turn now. While having both UD and OD gears positively helped turning, climbing, and descending, it makes reversing something that you want to avoid. Not that you can't back up, just that you can hear and see the drivetrain load up, and the chassis raises up considerably as the axles try to walk towards each other. Reverse wheelies happen a bit too easily if you're even slightly bound up and tap reverse. Luckily, I don't need to back up nearly as often now, so it's been a worthwhile trade off. Surprisingly it doesn't seem to have any other noticeable negative impact even running at full speed (which is probably only 10mph now) on hard terrain/asphalt/concrete.

At this point I'm pretty satified with the way this car is performing, and nothing really jumps out at me as needing attention. Maybe some shocks that don't leak? Better yet, just drive it and catch up on some other rc projects.
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Old 06-29-2018, 01:27 AM   #27
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Default Re: Wraith trans choices for sand/dunes

A few big changes over the last 3+ months. The mg959 servo stripped the big gear on the output shaft... twice. I was really happy with the performance, but gearsets are not available separately, so I tried something else. Went with one of the steel geared, 46kg JX brand servos. It was fairly impressive performance for the price, but I'd say they were a bit on the optimistic side with the 46kg rating. That really didn't matter since it ate an intermediate gear after less than 3 weeks in service. I'm planning to buy a set of Holmes Hobbies hv500v1 gears to try to repair the jx, but for now it sits in a drawer.

Luckily, I had a few bucks set aside to put this car back on 2.2"s, so when the servo died, I decided to bite the bullet and use my tire/foam/wheel money to buy a Savox 2290. This is the first servo that has been able to lift the car by steering (think: hanging on a ledge with the inner sidewall of a front tire) or wag the ass when the front is wedged (sometimes.) Hopefully it lasts a good long time!

Since my wife is awesome, I was able to take advantage of another one of ebay's 20% off coupons to order 2.2" Proline Hyrax's and Chinese OMF style 1" wide beadlocks. I stuffed them with Crawler Innovations 6" Double Deuce soft fronts, and medium rears. These wheels were some of the most drama-free that I've had the pleasure of mounting, even with Proline tires. Having the inner and outer rings keyed for alignment made all the difference. After about 10 packs, I decided I wanted a bigger contact patch/softer foam setup on the front, so I pulled just the outer ~1/4" tuning ring and that seemed to do the trick.

Another significant change was the transmission. I'd been crawling along just fine with the SSD high ratio trans and giant 1.9"s, but I knew I'd be pushin' it with the switch to the 5.75" (actual height) 2.2" setup. Not being in a position to dump a bunch of money into a bomb-proof setup, I opted to go cheap and reuse the stock plastic transmission case. I did not want to risk insta-failure by using the stock plastic idler and bottom gear, so I spent a whopping $6 on the sintered metal gears from the newest rtr versions of the SCX10.2. They dropped right in, and have got to be a good amount stronger than the plastic gears, time will tell, but so far, so good. I guess that last change should come with a request to move this thread from Foff to the regular Wraith section huh?

Since the goal of the bigger tires was almost entirely just to get more clearance/breakover under the axle tubes, I still kept my narrow hex's/hubs. The extra diameter puts the edge of the tires hard into the lower links when turning, so I've got some of Dravtech's angled link mounts in my shopping cart to buy me a bit more room. I also plan to add some Dlux brass rings to my VP knuckle weights, and it looks like I might be able to stack 2 on each side, and keep my cool looking brake rotor hubs IF I just switch back to standard Axial hex's... I think I can handle that 0.080" of total added width.

I still think a shorter wheelbase is in the cards to increase breakover angle at the belly, without making the car any taller. I can go 11mm shorter at each end before needing to change any driveshaft parts, so the plan is to make just the front links 10mm shorter and see how she goes.
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Old 10-07-2018, 03:52 AM   #28
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Default Re: Wraith trans choices for sand/dunes

After experimenting with a ton of different length links, I'm calling it good at 13.4" wheelbase. The front MIP driveshaft is within 1mm of bottoming out with the suspension bottomed. I used stock length titanium uppers on the rear, and made the lowers ~3-4mm shorter than standard to roll the pinion up out of harms way with a ~20 bend about an inch from the axle/link mount.

I gained a bit more steering with the Dravtech angled link mounts on the front axle, and another ~20 bend (rolled on a 45 so I get more steering clearance and ground clearance) in the front lower links. I'll shave the inner sidewalls of the front tires to alleviate a little of the grabbyness at full lock, but that's likely going to be the end of my quest for better steering.

Unfortunately the Dlux brass rings were not the same bolt pattern as the VP AR60 knuckle weights (I'm guessing they'd fit XR10 knuckle weights?) but neither Dlux, nor VP ever said they would, so I wasn't going to bother trying to exchange them. Since I didn't have another car that they would fit, I threw them on with just the top bolt holding them in place, seems to stay put just fine.

A friend needed some longer shocks that I had, so I ended up trading for a set of 4 XXLong Traxxas Big Bore shocks. I liked the idea of running Mini-T springs up front, just for the sake of tire clearance while twisted/turned, but I didn't have any on hand like I thought I did... I did have several different rates of 1/18 scale springs from Dromida 4.18's, which worked out just as well. The I.D. is a little larger than Mini-T springs, but they stay seated inside the lower seats and on the small diameter section of the shock body. They are also slightly shorter than Mini-T springs so there is almost no preload. I settled on black/"extra hard" up front, and chrome (non-color coded, only used on the "Wasteland" cars that came with dart launchers on top) that are around 10% stiffer on the rear, and I'm very happy with it. I did the cap mod on one pair (rear) to get a few mm's more length, still undecided if I'll do the same for the front. I never fully realized how much the original shocks sucked, until I mounted a set that didn't!

So now I'm at a crossroads with this thing. It already crawls better than I could expect any Wraith or Bomber to, but I find myself wanting more. Do I keep it Wraith-like and: switch to Bomber interior (I already ditched the resin seats) so I can tummy tuck along with a flat skid? That might also lead to an idea lifted from White-trash of using an SSD AR44 rear axle with .850 hubs (would end up a little narrower than my AR60 with .185's) while keeping my current AR60 up front. That would be the equivalent of running od/ud AR60's, but with standard AR60 gears up front and standard AR44 gears out back, along with more clearance, less torque twist, and lower overall gearing.

...or, swith to the BPC "Bomber" chassis, which is basically a frame rail conversion for Wraith/Bomber skids. I'd run both a short course body which will actually cover/tuck the wheels (wheelbase and width of a Slash body fits perfect), and a small comp crawler body (along the lines of the Parma Xciter) depending on the occasion. I could add a flat skid here too. This route would definitely set it apart from every other Wraith out there, but I really don't know how much (if any?) performance I'd stand to gain. This is the route I'm currently favoring.

Lastly, I could go off the deep end and start hunting for a sportsman type chassis and never fit in with the scale nerds again.

What do you guys think?
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Old 10-07-2018, 09:54 AM   #29
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Default Re: Wraith trans choices for sand/dunes

I like your first idea of keeping it wraith like and tummy tuck, and go with white-trash's idea with the axles, saw his post and it's a good plan.

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Old 10-11-2018, 11:43 PM   #30
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Default Re: Wraith trans choices for sand/dunes

There's no going back now! I figured if I was willing to ditch the Wraith chassis, I had nothing to lose experimenting with the tummy tuck first. I removed the interior completely for now, if I end up liking this setup, I'll order up a Bomber interior down the road. I've read about many people's rails breaking after the mod, so I chose to go the route of drilling through the outer rail of the chassis, and the inner, with spacers in between. I made the spacers out of 1/4" aluminum tube, cut to 22mm, then notched on each end (leaving ~20mm between) to fit nicely around each longitudinal rail of the chassis. I used the cut off skidplate mount portion of the chassis as my drill guide, ensuring things would actually line up. I then used m3x45 stainless BHCS's to draw it all together. I positioned the chassis so that the spur gear cover was touching the back of my Wertymade battery plate, but ended up needing to give the plate a little buzz with a sanding drum since there was a bit of pressure on it with things tightened down. I ended up gaining 3/4" under the skid, now at a whopping 3 5/8"!

With it all back together, I took it for a brief test run on my backyard course. I can see that I'll have my work cut out for me getting this car dialed in again... I just couldn't leave well enough alone! Here's what I've noticed so far:

First off, there is binding at the trans side of the front driveshaft. I swapped the long hub/yoke from that shaft with the shorter/standard one off the diff side of the rear shaft. That made the shaft longer from pivot to pivot, which took off just enough angle to alleviate the binding, but the shaft now rubs the spur cover. I'll clearance that later. Worst case here, Supershafty/MIP sells a really stubby hub that I could run on the diff side, which would flatten out the angle another couple of degrees.

The added height really jacked up my front suspension's geometry. I've now got a few rod ends binding, the upper links hit the bottom of the chassis long before the shocks bottom out, and I lost almost all of my caster. I can get away with straight upper links now, which would help with the chassis/link interference, so I just rolled them on their sides for now (that is the reason for two of the rod ends binding.) I'll make new upper links soon. I also need to make slightly longer lower links to get my caster back, which will help roll my shock mounts back down a smidge at the same time, and get back some of the ~3/16" of wheelbase I lost in this process.

The center of gravity is too high for me now. I've got a few sketchy descents (about 70 plus) in my backyard that I usually will wiggle my steering to shimmy the car down and just ease into the throttle as it gets near the bottom, but as soon as I dropped the front wheels over and the belly touched, it was ass over tea kettle. On the flip side, it climbed right up a few spots that usually require multiple attempts, a bit of wheel speed, and steering side to side to get the belly up and over. That being said, I'd like to split the difference here and try to further lower the suspension to get down to ~3 1/4"ish under the skid and see if that's more manageable. I know it sounds counterproductive, but that would net me 3/8" more belly clearance, and 3/8" lower roof height than what I started with.

I may try mounting the lower ends of my rear shocks next to the lower links, using a single longer bolt... ala scx10. That will probably be real close, but my other option for the rear is to make a simple plate to move the upper mounts up/forward similar to the commercially available shock keys/"droop" brackets (I do not think that means what you think it means!) The front may be a bit more of a challenge simply because I'd prefer that the shocks bottom before/at the same time that the upper links hit the chassis, but I'm sure I'll figure something out.

If you've actually been able to read through this whole thread, you have a better attention span than me! Maybe, just maybe one day I'll setup a new photo hosting account.
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