Independant Rock Crawler
 

Just a question,

Has anyone been able to get a full independant rockcrawler to work and by that I mean be competitive.

Thanks

Can be competitive,but a solid axle will always prevail. It's a matter of leverage that gains traction where a IFS rig mainly sees spring rates effecting traction. Allot of guys have tried it with 1:1 and scale. They always seem to go back to a solid axle. Check the Maxx section,there may be a few builds with IFS still in there.

Walker Evans ran an IFS comp 1:1 for a season. kept blowing axles..went back to solid axle. It worked well, better then most though.


i think it can work but the simplicity of a solid axle is what makes it reliable and desirable.

That doesn't meen the idea has been given up on. Check out this video(in case you haven't seen it)
http://video.google.com/videosearch?...-revision&cd=2#
Pretty cool IMO.

Evans IFS set up wasn't the normal set up also. It was custom made.

Link to his old truck... Nothing like the IFS set ups we see in most RC's like Maxx's, Pede's and so on.
http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/brandpa...s10/index.html

http://image.4wheeloffroad.com/f/901...6_walk03_z.jpg

http://image.4wheeloffroad.com/f/901...6_walk05_z.jpg

Driving an E-Revo around on the rocks and competitive rock crawling are two different things.

That is exactly why solid axles will out-perform an independant suspension set up every time - LEVERAGE, plain and simple...

It "could" work awesome if you could figure out FORCED articulation, using servos instead of shocks.....

Land Rover has the right idea, in 4wd low the left and right tire become linked via air. So when the one tire si forced up the other is forced down.

This is very usefull in a vehicle that has to run on road and perform well offroad.

If you need to use your crawler as a race vehicle between comps, I would recommend IFS. If its a crawler and thats it only purpose, solid axle is the way to go.

I sold my 4runner and bought a Rubicon for exactly this reason. (I did not want to do a Solid axle swap, especially since I could get into a Rubicon cheap)

Funny everyone is going back to 1:1 cause that is what this is all about.

1:10 prototype and checking of ideas and then a 1:1

id be curious how the Summit from traxxas would do... with a good set of tires on her.

Wow I didn't realize the Walker set up was essensially a radius arm. That's actually simpler than I thought is was.

sonny's Scorpion was a forced articultion suspension. It was a straight axle, but the same concept might be transfered to an independant rig.

J parriott's Rock Racer was/is also independant.

sonny's was a one link with forced articulation through a chassis mount pivot attached to either sid eof the one link.

worked awesome but the one link is kinda clunky. and like the rest. worked GREAT for trail. but i woudl not run it for a comp.


I will revert back to a 1:1 on this anyday. the 1:10 is great for testing the concept but it is so small it is hard to notice the subtle kinks on suck a small truck.

plus there is somethign abotu the feel of a suspension when yoru driving.

One links often have way too much anti-squat unless you really sacrifice ground clearance.

Its not really a fair comparison from the 1:1 world to the 1:10 world. Things in scale crawling do not scale proportionately, the strength that can be had by an alloy steel like chromoly, having to push around say a 10 pound truck vs. a 1500-2000 crawler such as Evan's, is way out of proportion.

What is required (much like with the 1:1 rigs) is for someone to throw money at the problem to solve the issues. The concept that was brought up on the Range Rovers having the active/reactive suspension is a perfect example, this concept could probably fairly easily be translated to a 1:10 crawler, just someone needs to look into it (someone much smarter than me ;-) ).

Its a really cool idea, and hopefully some more people will look into it.

Maybe a system of really rigid swaybars that could be "turned on and off", or something along those lines.

why complicate with indepen' suspension. trying to redesign/modify indepen' suspension for rock crawling/real offroading is the same as trying to polish up turd. Even if one designs a capable independent rig, there would be just too much extra crap involved i.e. extra links here and there, homemade electronic controlled gaget asistor' sensor here&there. More crap to break. Simplicity+strength=good offroad rig. Don't have a nerd/geek design a rock crawler. Instead have an experienced offroader do it and maybe with a tiny bit of assistant from a geek/nerd. If I remember correctyly there is a rock crawler team from Japan and sponsored by nitto that competes over here in the comps. They still run the normal live axle setup even though they are like Japanese geeks/smart freaks. If you ask me, Japanese auto engineers know and can build some of the best independent suspensions. Throw in solid axle suspension+real offroading and they get stumped. Instead they build:honda rigdeline, pilot,crv etc. And yet they call it offroad capable.

Just to be fair though Jeep did build the Liberty :lol:

I just can't see why anyone would want to run independent suspension, too many moving parts, and too much stuff going on to figure out how to correctly do it. To get one thing to work right you would have to sacrifice on something else. If it is ground clearance you're looking for just get bigger tires or run reduction boxes on the axles...

People would want to do it so they can say.... they did it.

If everyone just settled for "what already works" we would all still be driving Ford Model T's.

Its the push of innovation by creative people that improves what we all love to do. Keeping the blinders on and just conceding that the way it is now is fine is to halt progress, in the real 1:1 crawler world, they would not be able to come anywhere near what they are capable of without the "nerds/geeks" doing the materials testing and development to get the strength out of an axle that is 2 inches in dia. that can take 500+ lbs of toque without shattering, hydraulic steering, winches capable of pulling 15000+ lbs, reservoir shocks, all designed by engineers, you think the average grease monkey understands the physics and materials engineering to develope this stuff on his own?

I think the concept of independant suspension in an RC crawler application is much more doable than in the 1:1 world, and it would be very cool to see someone do it, even if it did look like a big ol' mess.

Actually most of the stuff you see in the 1:1 world was built by guys in their garages. Something breaks so they go bigger or better or both, some of the coolest rigs I have ever seen have come out of some guys garage that he spent a year or more working on it every night after work. Usually engineers just screw things up... I can say that with confidence since I work with a bunch of them, they usually create more problems than they fix.