RCCrawler Forums

syber70 · 03-07-2009, 04:40 AM

Thoughts and opinions?

Given two drivers of equal ability, and an unlimited budget to build the best machine you can dream up, would a MOA vehicle always win over a shaft vehicle?

microgoat · 03-07-2009, 04:57 AM

Gotta go with the MOA. No torque roll, better weight distribution, and no driveshaft issues. With an unlimited budget and equal drivers, I can't see a shafty hanging in. But with all that said, I still don't own an MOA rig.

run2jeepn · 03-07-2009, 05:23 AM

x2 Microgoat

Culetto · 03-07-2009, 05:26 AM

Its not about the rig or the driver (if you want to talk equal skill). Its about the course. Some lines a shafty will get up, others the MOA will get up. While this will always be a debate i have seen it personally and could take you to a number of lines that an MOA will not make. I prefer MOA but everyone has there own oppinions.

RCMFMaxxMan · 03-07-2009, 05:28 AM

well with equal drivers and budgets, the moa has a really good advantage but i could see a shaft driven rig still hanging in there and giving an moa a run for it's money. But with all other variables equal, the moa should prevail.

jcnalley · 03-07-2009, 05:38 AM

Either truck can win at any given comp. Wasn't there a Pede trannied, driveshaft dig, BMV style shafty that finished high at Nationals?

ErichF · 03-07-2009, 06:24 AM

So, what many of you are saying is...the winner will often be the one that spends the most money on a rig? I see lots of talk about unlimited budgets in this discussion. Of course, driver skill is 75% of the equation, but sounds like some rook with $1500 MOA rig could take on a pro with a shafty.

This factor is one of the reasons I have never explored surface RC competition, and probably never will.

nj05nismo · 03-07-2009, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErichF

So, what many of you are saying is...the winner will often be the one that spends the most money on a rig? I see lots of talk about unlimited budgets in this discussion. Of course, driver skill is 75% of the equation, but sounds like some rook with $1500 MOA rig could take on a pro with a shafty.

This factor is one of the reasons I have never explored surface RC competition, and probably never will.

i disagree with that statement. A pro with a cheap rig they know well can kill a rookie with a high dollar build. Its 99% driver skill. Some people drive one rig better than another. For instance i can put my MOA in places i cant put my tlt or my dads axial. But at the same time there are lines my dad makes with his axial that my MOA struggles up. You dont have to have a 3k dollar rig to win.

Dynamic^Cipher · 03-07-2009, 06:36 AM

Yeah, long story short MOA is better then shafty. You can argue about it...but theres really no reason too. Drive whatever you want....but MOA is more capable. (show me a shafty with full variable digs that you can get from 2 ESCs on a MOA)

Can you buy a win, no...is $$$ gonna give you an advantage, obviously, name one type of competition that it wouldn't. Hockey you can get better skates and sticks, MMA you could get better training equipment and supplements, snowboarding you can have a better board. Are any of these things going to guarantee victory, no...but their gonna help.

The reality of it is that the whole reason we spend time and money on a hobby is because we find it fun, so does it really matter if your truck is the best or not, or if you win or lose. Not really.

ErichF · 03-07-2009, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nj05nismo

i disagree with that statement. A pro with a cheap rig they know well can kill a rookie with a high dollar build. Its 99% driver skill. Some people drive one rig better than another. For instance i can put my MOA in places i cant put my tlt or my dads axial. But at the same time there are lines my dad makes with his axial that my MOA struggles up. You dont have to have a 3k dollar rig to win.

It was a question, not a statement...

I'm just making an observation based on responses I see here. I don't have the experience in crawling to know one way or the other. What I give is the view of someone new to this and reading what others are saying...

Also, if it's 99% skill, then why are there so many different designs and upgrades out there? You're saying it's all for nothing? Certainly, truck design and performance accounts for more than 1% of the equation.

freetimecrawler · 03-07-2009, 06:55 AM

His figures of 99% are just a number thrown out there, and are opinion.
Still, I'll give you a 10k truck, and the National champ a $500 truck, and chances are the National champ is going to give you a whooping. Driver skill is still the much larger equation. It's no different then in flying. An experienced pilot with a cheap plane, is going to do better then the inexperienced pilot with the high $ plane.
It pretty much boils down to the One who builds the best rig he can, regardless of $, and learns to drive it well, can do just fine with it.
The bottom line is, practice practice practice.

renoirbud · 03-07-2009, 06:58 AM

A shafty will climb faces better and turn uphill better because it does not have clodstall.

A MOA can have a lower CG if both trucks are set up with high ground clearence.

I look forward to having a good shaft driven truck soon. I am 90% sure that the new Losi will be the end of me playing with MOA 2.2s.

nj05nismo · 03-07-2009, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErichF

It was a question, not a statement...

I'm just making an observation based on responses I see here. I don't have the experience in crawling to know one way or the other. What I give is the view of someone new to this and reading what others are saying...

Also, if it's 99% skill, then why are there so many different designs and upgrades out there? You're saying it's all for nothing? Certainly, truck design and performance accounts for more than 1% of the equation.

Upgrades improve reliability, make the rig more tunable, make it more predictable, etc. But they do not make the rig that much of a better crawler. Ive seen drivers with bone stock ax10's kill guys with high dollar rigs, so i dont beleive that spending tons of money on mods on your rig will give you an advantage. The tunability that you get by changing out your chassis is so that you can build a rig YOU can drive. Thats why there isnt one set geometry. Given there are mods that improve ground clearence, maybe a touch more traction, and improve approach angle, but if you learn to drive without those, then adding them doesnt really make your rig more capable, just allows you to change the way you drive. See what im sayin?

kasper · 03-07-2009, 06:58 AM

there are several different circumstances where one is always better then the other

ErichF · 03-07-2009, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freetimecrawler

An experienced pilot with a cheap plane, is going to do better then the inexperienced pilot with the high $ plane.

Yeah, agreed....I'm the perfect example there

I have one of the top three most expensive helicopters in the world (Caliber 90 - Kit cost $2800) and I still get beat out by guys flying a $700 plastic machine

I figgered the 99% figure was sensationalistic, so I thought I'd have some fun with it, sorry.

I actually am interested in Crawler competition. I appeal to the technical aspect of it over the racing/go-fast aspect of track running. This stuff is much more mentally stimulating that driving around in circles trying to cross a line first.

Good thread, BTW...

ErichF · 03-07-2009, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renoirbud

A shafty will climb faces better and turn uphill better because it does not have clodstall.

Would you mind explaining what "Clodstall" is?

hairba11 · 03-07-2009, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErichF

Would you mind explaining what "Clodstall" is?

if you don't know, I hope you didn't vote

Showing results 1 to 25 of 248
Search took 0.19 seconds. Search: Keyword(s): whats clodstall

mudboger07 · 03-07-2009, 07:37 AM

IMO its the driver that makes a rig, Take the top five inthe nats, give them a shafty and they will still be the top five, and so the same as if they drove a moa, reason they are great drivers. they know thier rigs, granted having a well built rig helps but you must know your rig.

jason · 03-07-2009, 07:49 AM

In Colorado the top 5 at our comps is always a good mix of MOA and shafty, and on any day either one could pull off the win. I'd be willing to bet shaftys have won more here in the last year than MOA's.

Nats top 5 had MOA's, TLT's, and Axials, it was a good mix.

MOA is not the best for every situation and is not the end all be all of crawling.

ErichF · 03-07-2009, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hairba11

if you don't know, I hope you didn't vote

Showing results 1 to 25 of 248
Search took 0.19 seconds. Search: Keyword(s): whats clodstall

Another worthless DOSer response. I don't have time to read through 248 returns, most of which have nothing to do with the question (mostly threads containing the word "whats"). If you can't answer a simple freakin question, don't bother.

View Poll Results: Shaft vs. MOA
MOA beats all	46	17.97%
Shaft can win	130	50.78%
too many other variables to consider	80	31.25%
Voters: 256. You may not vote on this poll

03-07-2009, 04:40 AM	#1
syber70 Quarry Creeper Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Clermont Posts: 217	can a shafty be competive against MOA? Thoughts and opinions? Given two drivers of equal ability, and an unlimited budget to build the best machine you can dream up, would a MOA vehicle always win over a shaft vehicle?

03-07-2009, 06:55 AM	#11
freetimecrawler Debunking old stereotypes Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 1st and Amistad Posts: 2,260	His figures of 99% are just a number thrown out there, and are opinion. Still, I'll give you a 10k truck, and the National champ a $500 truck, and chances are the National champ is going to give you a whooping. Driver skill is still the much larger equation. It's no different then in flying. An experienced pilot with a cheap plane, is going to do better then the inexperienced pilot with the high $ plane. It pretty much boils down to the One who builds the best rig he can, regardless of $, and learns to drive it well, can do just fine with it. The bottom line is, practice practice practice. Last edited by freetimecrawler; 03-07-2009 at 07:06 AM.

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03-07-2009, 04:57 AM	#2
microgoat I wanna be Dave Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 8,009	Gotta go with the MOA. No torque roll, better weight distribution, and no driveshaft issues. With an unlimited budget and equal drivers, I can't see a shafty hanging in. But with all that said, I still don't own an MOA rig.

03-07-2009, 05:23 AM	#3
run2jeepn I wanna be Dave Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: USA Posts: 11,196	x2 Microgoat

03-07-2009, 05:26 AM	#4
Culetto RCC Addict Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sin City Posts: 1,332	Its not about the rig or the driver (if you want to talk equal skill). Its about the course. Some lines a shafty will get up, others the MOA will get up. While this will always be a debate i have seen it personally and could take you to a number of lines that an MOA will not make. I prefer MOA but everyone has there own oppinions.

03-07-2009, 05:28 AM	#5
RCMFMaxxMan RCC Addict Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: ORegon Posts: 1,002	well with equal drivers and budgets, the moa has a really good advantage but i could see a shaft driven rig still hanging in there and giving an moa a run for it's money. But with all other variables equal, the moa should prevail.

03-07-2009, 05:38 AM	#6
jcnalley Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Henderson Posts: 384	Either truck can win at any given comp. Wasn't there a Pede trannied, driveshaft dig, BMV style shafty that finished high at Nationals?

03-07-2009, 06:24 AM	#7
ErichF Pebble Pounder Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Tampa Posts: 107	So, what many of you are saying is...the winner will often be the one that spends the most money on a rig? I see lots of talk about unlimited budgets in this discussion. Of course, driver skill is 75% of the equation, but sounds like some rook with $1500 MOA rig could take on a pro with a shafty. This factor is one of the reasons I have never explored surface RC competition, and probably never will.

03-07-2009, 06:36 AM	#9
Dynamic^Cipher Pebble Pounder Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: kelowna Posts: 157	Yeah, long story short MOA is better then shafty. You can argue about it...but theres really no reason too. Drive whatever you want....but MOA is more capable. (show me a shafty with full variable digs that you can get from 2 ESCs on a MOA) Can you buy a win, no...is $$$ gonna give you an advantage, obviously, name one type of competition that it wouldn't. Hockey you can get better skates and sticks, MMA you could get better training equipment and supplements, snowboarding you can have a better board. Are any of these things going to guarantee victory, no...but their gonna help. The reality of it is that the whole reason we spend time and money on a hobby is because we find it fun, so does it really matter if your truck is the best or not, or if you win or lose. Not really.

03-07-2009, 06:58 AM	#12
renoirbud RCC Addict Join Date: May 2006 Location: China Grove, NC Posts: 1,395	A shafty will climb faces better and turn uphill better because it does not have clodstall. A MOA can have a lower CG if both trucks are set up with high ground clearence. I look forward to having a good shaft driven truck soon. I am 90% sure that the new Losi will be the end of me playing with MOA 2.2s.

03-07-2009, 06:58 AM	#14
kasper I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: appleton Posts: 2,067	there are several different circumstances where one is always better then the other

03-07-2009, 07:37 AM	#18
mudboger07 Rock Crawler Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Arlington, TN Posts: 624	IMO its the driver that makes a rig, Take the top five inthe nats, give them a shafty and they will still be the top five, and so the same as if they drove a moa, reason they are great drivers. they know thier rigs, granted having a well built rig helps but you must know your rig.

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03-07-2009, 07:49 AM	#19
jason R.I.P. Chip Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: The Crawler State Posts: 13,938	In Colorado the top 5 at our comps is always a good mix of MOA and shafty, and on any day either one could pull off the win. I'd be willing to bet shaftys have won more here in the last year than MOA's. Nats top 5 had MOA's, TLT's, and Axials, it was a good mix. MOA is not the best for every situation and is not the end all be all of crawling.

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