RCCrawler Forums

Bennett1722 · 03-19-2009, 06:52 PM

I have saved up the money and am finally going to build a full out comp crawler. However, from most of the builds (especially this year), bergs seem to reign supreme. I have heard that once you go berg you don't go back and bergs are really smooth etc. At the same time, I really like shafty builds. They seem much simpler and more proven. My question is, if I built a shafty comp rig like an SWX, would I be at a disadvantage when crawling against bergs? I really want a crawler but I really don't want to waste my money on a rig that won't perform up to par. What are your opinions on common comp shafty builds (gatekeeper GC2, SWX) vs. bergs?

If I end up building a shafty it will probably be something like this:
http://rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146534

If I end up building a berg it will be something like this:
http://rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=166914

DiEzel · 03-19-2009, 06:55 PM

You cant beat instant dig.

No shaft, no tranmission. Motor mounted directly on the axle.

crazy_kanaka · 03-19-2009, 07:12 PM

I'm a shafty supporter. I think that shaftys are very compatible with MOAs.

But....

Bergs axles are freaking strong. There are very durable. And the instant, trouble free dig is also a major plus.

I'd build a berg, but I have a need to prove that shaftys can't be written off.

Lonewolf · 03-19-2009, 07:27 PM

shafty vrs moa the age old arguement....which is better........Its like chevy vrs ford ect...
I have both and havent won any comps with either....Heck I havent even ran my berg yet but If I were to start all over from the beginning id go moa....(berg). There advantages as well as disadvantage to each.
Till you get to possible part failure berg has less to fail... Cost has been said about equal also.... Look up(search) moa verses shafty there are several debates here... From there its up to you to decide...

paintballer9876 · 03-19-2009, 07:32 PM

I cant exactly say that my berg is any better than the axial since i know the axial much better. The berg can side hill much better, but the free wheel ability i use alot on my axial which the berg doesnt have. I think it is personal preference, but thats just me.

xjman349 · 03-19-2009, 07:39 PM

Wait and get the new losi. It will be very competitive with the bergs and it will be shaft driven.

downtown · 03-19-2009, 07:42 PM

Age old for sure...

Let me show you the basic math tho...

Axial Artr kit $250 ish, all prices are 'ish'
Dig and servo $100
Comp wheels and tires are needed for both so it squashes out..
Strengthened Drive shafts for Axial $60
Shocks need to be upgraded on the Axial $50
Lock outs $30
4 links mounts and battery/servo mount $45

Berg
$180 axles
$75 avg chassis
dig $19 servo and $6 switches
shocks $50
lockouts $25

In reality, to me, they cost about the same to build up a worthy rig
Ive owned both, and currently run the berg setup due to the simplicity and lack of moving parts to break..
Both can be capable rigs, given the right setups and driver.

666 · 03-19-2009, 07:48 PM

I have beat the hell out of crawlers for awhile now, and my Bergs take the win for the best driving, reliable, most capable and downright simple rigs I have thrashed on, besides clods. That has to account for something!

Slowkrawl · 03-19-2009, 07:54 PM

I have nothing "tech" of sorts to add to this, but I am going to say that I like shafties because first of all I think it looks better from the underside, and second because everyone says they aren't as good as an MOA!

freetimecrawler · 03-19-2009, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slowkrawl

I have nothing "tech" of sorts to add to this, but I am going to say that I like shafties because first of all I think it looks better from the underside, and second because everyone says they aren't as good as an MOA!

If you're looking at the underside, you're either very short, or you're on your top side too often

Bennett1722 · 03-19-2009, 08:11 PM

Wow! Thanks for the replies everyone. I think I'm going to go for a berg.

But, what is the deal with the new Losi crawler? Why will it compete with bergs better than other shaftys?

MCSCOTT · 03-19-2009, 08:20 PM

Just plain performance. If you own a shafty and run a dig in it, you know that the dig is for the most part not predictable in any rig. At some point with nearly every shafty, you push the dig switch and it may or may not work right when you need it. Mine has even kicked into freewheel and didn't shift into dig, causing me to completely lose any grip on what i was climbing. With Bergs with electric dig, you know for a fact unless you have poor wiring that when you push that button your dig is working. Also, with shafties there's the constant issue of torque twist that isn't there with MOA rigs.

I've said it time and time again, for something fun, that is scale or semi scale, go with a shafty. For anything you might want to compete with go Berg.

As for the Losi Mini competeing with Bergs.......

I'm not sure where the idea of that came from other than the fact that they're smaller and might fit through gaps better or something. They're in the 1.9 class and Bergs are in 2.2.

Bennett1722 · 03-19-2009, 08:32 PM

I don't think hes talking about the mini. I think Losi is coming out with a 2.2...

MCSCOTT · 03-19-2009, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bennett1722

I don't think hes talking about the mini. I think Losi is coming out with a 2.2...

Ahhhh, got ya now and you're right. I keep forgetting about the new Losi 2.2, because I would just imagine it'll be just another shafty as far as comps go. No one really knows yet how well those will compete on a regular basis.

Bennett1722 · 03-19-2009, 10:00 PM

OMG! I just read the 35 page post on the losi 2.2 crawler. I think that is going to open the world of comp crawling to people with less money. This trumps the berg by truely offering out of the box comp preformance for 280 dollars... I have decided to get that and that way I can spend the rest of my budget on a pk4.

Eritex Inc. · 03-19-2009, 10:20 PM

After watching some of the best drivers attack some of the nastiest courses, any truck can be competitive.

The Berg just makes it easier for those of us that suck

dboy1k · 03-19-2009, 10:27 PM

with a good remote and a bad rig you still end up with

a good remote.
i have spent alot of money my self trying to polish a turd, but in the end it was still a turd

go with the berg and find a cheaper radio with a 3 position 3rd channel, even if it takes you a month longer to get it you will thank everyone that responded to your post

we have all been there because of the price but with your berg if you listen to all the tricks on this forum when building it you will have a rig that will last and save you the money you would be puting in to the other ones.
well i think thats all i have to say

durango#95 · 03-19-2009, 10:34 PM

Gota throw my $.02 in here as well.
I am a decent driver, have a GOOD performing AX10, and at the last comp. I got 2nd place, right behind a BERG! :-P I don't like to admit it, but DAMN they just flat out work! I think the new Losi 2.2 will be a force to be reckoned with, but until you can buy it

I think the Berg has it. (and I'm a shafty advocate)

Bennett1722 · 03-20-2009, 10:47 AM

Thanks again everyone. From the posts I have changed my mind again and I'm going..........BERG! For my first comp rig I think I would rather have something simpler hence the MOA. For a chassis maybe a KK 4.0? What do you guys think? Would that be the best KK chassis for a first comp crawler or is it just preference?

syber70 · 03-20-2009, 10:57 AM

everyone cover your ears, as I know this is gonna cause a riot..

But, I really think that we should have another class division for MOA rigs.

I count on getting responses from a lot, saying that's rediculous, but they're going to come from

MOA drivers who like to have an upperhand
Shafty drivers who want to prove they can take a MOA

03-19-2009, 06:52 PM	#1
Bennett1722 Newbie Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Grand Rapids Posts: 39	Is it personal preference or just plain advantage? I have saved up the money and am finally going to build a full out comp crawler. However, from most of the builds (especially this year), bergs seem to reign supreme. I have heard that once you go berg you don't go back and bergs are really smooth etc. At the same time, I really like shafty builds. They seem much simpler and more proven. My question is, if I built a shafty comp rig like an SWX, would I be at a disadvantage when crawling against bergs? I really want a crawler but I really don't want to waste my money on a rig that won't perform up to par. What are your opinions on common comp shafty builds (gatekeeper GC2, SWX) vs. bergs? If I end up building a shafty it will probably be something like this: http://rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146534 If I end up building a berg it will be something like this: http://rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=166914

03-19-2009, 08:20 PM	#12
MCSCOTT Rock Crawler Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Columbia, TN Posts: 813	Just plain performance. If you own a shafty and run a dig in it, you know that the dig is for the most part not predictable in any rig. At some point with nearly every shafty, you push the dig switch and it may or may not work right when you need it. Mine has even kicked into freewheel and didn't shift into dig, causing me to completely lose any grip on what i was climbing. With Bergs with electric dig, you know for a fact unless you have poor wiring that when you push that button your dig is working. Also, with shafties there's the constant issue of torque twist that isn't there with MOA rigs. I've said it time and time again, for something fun, that is scale or semi scale, go with a shafty. For anything you might want to compete with go Berg. As for the Losi Mini competeing with Bergs.......I'm not sure where the idea of that came from other than the fact that they're smaller and might fit through gaps better or something. They're in the 1.9 class and Bergs are in 2.2.

03-19-2009, 10:20 PM	#16
Eritex Inc. RCC Addict Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: in the woods Posts: 1,915	After watching some of the best drivers attack some of the nastiest courses, any truck can be competitive. The Berg just makes it easier for those of us that suck Last edited by Eritex Inc.; 03-19-2009 at 10:30 PM.

03-19-2009, 10:27 PM	#17
dboy1k THE Y-TOWN OG Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: yuma Posts: 251	with a good remote and a bad rig you still end up with a good remote. i have spent alot of money my self trying to polish a turd, but in the end it was still a turd go with the berg and find a cheaper radio with a 3 position 3rd channel, even if it takes you a month longer to get it you will thank everyone that responded to your postwe have all been there because of the price but with your berg if you listen to all the tricks on this forum when building it you will have a rig that will last and save you the money you would be puting in to the other ones. well i think thats all i have to say

03-20-2009, 10:57 AM	#20
syber70 Quarry Creeper Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Clermont Posts: 217	everyone cover your ears, as I know this is gonna cause a riot.. But, I really think that we should have another class division for MOA rigs. I count on getting responses from a lot, saying that's rediculous, but they're going to come from MOA drivers who like to have an upperhand Shafty drivers who want to prove they can take a MOA

03-19-2009, 06:55 PM	#2
DiEzel RCC Addict Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Alpine,CA Posts: 1,258	You cant beat instant dig. No shaft, no tranmission. Motor mounted directly on the axle.

03-19-2009, 07:12 PM	#3
crazy_kanaka Quarry Creeper Join Date: May 2006 Location: Volcano, Hawaii Posts: 429	I'm a shafty supporter. I think that shaftys are very compatible with MOAs. But.... Bergs axles are freaking strong. There are very durable. And the instant, trouble free dig is also a major plus. I'd build a berg, but I have a need to prove that shaftys can't be written off.

03-19-2009, 07:27 PM	#4
Lonewolf Rock Crawler Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: N.E. Mpls Posts: 854	shafty vrs moa the age old arguement....which is better........Its like chevy vrs ford ect... I have both and havent won any comps with either....Heck I havent even ran my berg yet but If I were to start all over from the beginning id go moa....(berg). There advantages as well as disadvantage to each. Till you get to possible part failure berg has less to fail... Cost has been said about equal also.... Look up(search) moa verses shafty there are several debates here... From there its up to you to decide...

03-19-2009, 07:32 PM	#5
paintballer9876 Quarry Creeper Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Punta Gorda, Flo-rida Posts: 453	I cant exactly say that my berg is any better than the axial since i know the axial much better. The berg can side hill much better, but the free wheel ability i use alot on my axial which the berg doesnt have. I think it is personal preference, but thats just me.

03-19-2009, 07:39 PM	#6
xjman349 Rock Stacker Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 56	Wait and get the new losi. It will be very competitive with the bergs and it will be shaft driven.

03-19-2009, 07:42 PM	#7
downtown Quarry Creeper Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: on the edge Posts: 320	Age old for sure... Let me show you the basic math tho... Axial Artr kit $250 ish, all prices are 'ish' Dig and servo $100 Comp wheels and tires are needed for both so it squashes out.. Strengthened Drive shafts for Axial $60 Shocks need to be upgraded on the Axial $50 Lock outs $30 4 links mounts and battery/servo mount $45 Berg $180 axles $75 avg chassis dig $19 servo and $6 switches shocks $50 lockouts $25 In reality, to me, they cost about the same to build up a worthy rig Ive owned both, and currently run the berg setup due to the simplicity and lack of moving parts to break.. Both can be capable rigs, given the right setups and driver.

03-19-2009, 07:48 PM	#8
666 MODERHATER™ Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 10,939	I have beat the hell out of crawlers for awhile now, and my Bergs take the win for the best driving, reliable, most capable and downright simple rigs I have thrashed on, besides clods. That has to account for something!

03-19-2009, 07:54 PM	#9
Slowkrawl Quarry Creeper Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Alberta canada Posts: 386	I have nothing "tech" of sorts to add to this, but I am going to say that I like shafties because first of all I think it looks better from the underside, and second because everyone says they aren't as good as an MOA!

03-19-2009, 08:11 PM	#11
Bennett1722 Newbie Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Grand Rapids Posts: 39	Wow! Thanks for the replies everyone. I think I'm going to go for a berg. But, what is the deal with the new Losi crawler? Why will it compete with bergs better than other shaftys?

03-19-2009, 08:32 PM	#13
Bennett1722 Newbie Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Grand Rapids Posts: 39	I don't think hes talking about the mini. I think Losi is coming out with a 2.2...

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03-19-2009, 10:00 PM	#15
Bennett1722 Newbie Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Grand Rapids Posts: 39	OMG! I just read the 35 page post on the losi 2.2 crawler. I think that is going to open the world of comp crawling to people with less money. This trumps the berg by truely offering out of the box comp preformance for 280 dollars... I have decided to get that and that way I can spend the rest of my budget on a pk4.

03-19-2009, 10:34 PM	#18
durango#95 Quarry Creeper Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: In my house Posts: 243	Gota throw my $.02 in here as well. I am a decent driver, have a GOOD performing AX10, and at the last comp. I got 2nd place, right behind a BERG! :-P I don't like to admit it, but DAMN they just flat out work! I think the new Losi 2.2 will be a force to be reckoned with, but until you can buy it I think the Berg has it. (and I'm a shafty advocate)

03-20-2009, 10:47 AM	#19
Bennett1722 Newbie Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Grand Rapids Posts: 39	Thanks again everyone. From the posts I have changed my mind again and I'm going..........BERG! For my first comp rig I think I would rather have something simpler hence the MOA. For a chassis maybe a KK 4.0? What do you guys think? Would that be the best KK chassis for a first comp crawler or is it just preference?

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Thread: Is it personal preference or just plain advantage?