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Old 09-28-2009, 09:32 PM   #1
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Default Sport/Sportsman Class?

Sorry if I've totally overlooked another thread about this...

I'm really thinking that a sportsman class might allow me to scrounge up some local action in an otherwise rc-poor area.

I understand that dig is not allowed, but what other restrictions are there?

I was thinking about putting a dollar limit on upgrades to keep things on an even playing field.

Any input?
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Old 09-28-2009, 09:43 PM   #2
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Sounds fun!! I miss the old no-dig TLT days sometimes, but I don't miss what my rig can do these days either...

I would like to do at the comps I run at, first I will see what time I have now running 1.9, 2.2 and Super, see how I can manage things, and gauge interest.

Last edited by 666; 09-28-2009 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 09-28-2009, 09:51 PM   #3
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search you freakin' newbie!!!!! (someone was going to say it ... )

The Class 1 discussion thread

I'm 100% all for a shafty/no dig class. Going to a first comp ever and seeing pro rigs with dig is demoralizing to a new guy. Been there. But putting limits on "upgrades" is tough to police. Gonna kick out a new guy that has never been to a comp before, didn't know the rules, and has the wrong tires/links/battery/motor/body/servo? Ouch. They'd never come back.

Just something to ponder.....Ricky and I discussed this on the way back after the comp on Sat. Right now our club isn't quite big enough for multiple classes. Or is it?..
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:03 PM   #4
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The Sportsman class in our club is by far the most popular. We are a smaller club, and we really are more out to have a fun than anything else.
Here are our sportsman rules:


2.2 Sportsman Class Rules:(added for 2009)


If a 2.2 Sportsman Class vehicle violates any of the following requirements it must run in Class 2.2 or 2.2 unlimited respectfully. Any vehicle competing in the 2.2 Sportsman class will not be allowed to compete in another class and vice versa. These are " Club Rules " and can be Modified or adjusted at any time as long as it is for the good of the class.
1 - Vehicle wheelbase is limited to a maximum of 12.5 inches. This is determined by measuring from centerline of front axle stub to centerline of rear axle stub, with all the wheels pointing straight ahead, with the vehicles suspension holding it's own weight.
2 - Vehicle track width is limited to a maximum of 12.5 inches. This is determined by measuring the bottom of the outer most edge of the front and rear tires while the vehicle is sitting on level ground.
3 - Vehicle is limited to 2.2 inch wheels/rims at the bead surface. Wheels may be modified provided that the tire bead surface does not exceed 2.2 inches in diameter. Tires may NOT be modified from other sized tires, They must be a readily available 2.2 size tire with a maximum outside diameter of 6 inches. no Cutting on tire for any reason. Addition of custom foams and or weight is allowed
4 - Vehicles are limited to 2-wheel steering on front axle only.
5 - Vehicles are limited to the use of a 2 channel radio control (one for steering & one for throttle ) only. Neither channel can be used to perform more than one function. Radio systems with more than 2 channels are allowed but only 2 channels can be used to control the vehicle.
6 - Vehicles are limited to 1 ESC & 1 servo only.
7 - Vehicles are limited to 1 motor powering both of the axles. Exceptions will be made for RTR vehicles that came factory equipped with dual motors such as the Duratrax cliff climber and similar vehicles. No Berg, Clod or similar axles allowed
8 – No driver controlled devices, other than steering and throttle control, will be allowed. Independent throttle control to the front or rear axles (“burn” or “dig”), winching down the axles, and forced articulation are not allowed in this class. Vehicle is allowed to have a " dig " transmission but you will be disqualified if you use it
9 – A battery is limited to 8.4 nominal voltage (7 cell nimh/nicd & 2 cell lipo/limoly).
10 - If at any point during a run your vehicle falls out of these vehicle specs for any reason you will be required to take a touch penalty and correct the problem.
11 - body must be 3” minimum height on sides. No less than 12.5” total length and full original width, and no less than 5” in the center. All bodies should resemble its original form (Jeep bodies look like a Jeep)
12 - 2.2 Sportsman class bodiless overall dimension of the complete chassis must be at least 8"overall length, 3" overall width, and 3.75" overall height.
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 666 View Post
Sounds fun!! I miss the old no-dig TLT days sometimes, but I don't miss what my rig can do these days either...

I would like to do at the comps I run at, first I will see what time I have now running 1.9, 2.2 and Super, see how I can manage things, and gauge interest.
It sounds like alot of fun. An inexpensive way to keep everyone competitive and build interest. Not that I don't love my comp rig, but having something simpler to hammer on would be cool.

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Originally Posted by Manning View Post
search you freakin' newbie!!!!! (someone was going to say it ... )

The Class 1 discussion thread

I'm 100% all for a shafty/no dig class. Going to a first comp ever and seeing pro rigs with dig is demoralizing to a new guy. Been there. But putting limits on "upgrades" is tough to police. Gonna kick out a new guy that has never been to a comp before, didn't know the rules, and has the wrong tires/links/battery/motor/body/servo? Ouch. They'd never come back.

Just something to ponder.....Ricky and I discussed this on the way back after the comp on Sat. Right now our club isn't quite big enough for multiple classes. Or is it?..
lol...I knew I saw a thread on this somewhere...I searched for the wrong topic.

I don't think it'd be too hard to police the upgrades. We're not talking a total amount spent, but per item. Here's my thoughts...

1. $30 limit on most upgrades.

2.If you have access to a machine shop and decide to whip out some trick parts, you have to offer them to everyone else at a price at or less than the limit.

3. ESC's would be a different matter, can't really limit a dollar amount on that. Gotta have a good drag brake. Though it would be pretty interesting without one...

4. Maybe a limit on tire height? 5" or under?

I've already dusted off my sons seldom used Axial RTR and started my sportsman build. Can't wait to get it on the rocks.
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:07 PM   #6
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Our local club is small but we started a sportsman class this season. Our hope and goal is to get more people involved and stay involved. Main restrictions are no digs and shafty only. We've not had the need to add in voltage restrictions or anything else yet. At our last comp we only had one guy run in sportsman class. He ended up running the pro courses but we gave him more time on the course and moved the gates wider or repostitioned them altogether. The idea was to make sure everything on the course was possible. He was running an Axial with very few mods.
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:07 PM   #7
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chevellian's rules seem good.

That way, the comp organizer can quickly look at each rig and see that it meets the above rules. I think costs would be too hard to manage and time consuming, maybe?

Basically no dig or no moa built rigs, like Nova's Ark said.

Last edited by Szczerba; 09-28-2009 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:14 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane_744 View Post
chevellian's rules seem good.
They do, but like Nova I wouldn't restrict battery voltage. And I'm not sure about cutting out MOA's...I'm not sure how much of an advantage a MOA would have over a shafty since neither can dig and neither can run batteries on their axles.

Personally I don't mind running against MOA's...though I'm not a terribly competitive person so that may change things.
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:19 PM   #9
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I think costs would be too hard to manage and time consuming, maybe?
Not really. I bet I could show you a particular part next time we meet and you'd be able to tell me whether or not it retails for more than a certain dollar amount. Besides, there are a handfull of essential AX-10 parts that can be had for less than $30. It shouldn't be that big of a deal.
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:22 PM   #10
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Yeah, I guess I meant in general. It's a good list to start with though.
I dont see an issue with voltage.
I would say if a guy showed up with a losi rtr/artr moa (etc,,) that would be fine the sportsman class.

I get showed up by shafty's all the time.
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:32 PM   #11
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That's the great thing about the sportsman class, you can tailor the rules to fit your clubs needs/wants.

Our voltage rule was kind of like what your saying about the $30 upgrade rule.
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevellian View Post
That's the great thing about the sportsman class, you can tailor the rules to fit your clubs needs/wants.

Our voltage rule was kind of like what your saying about the $30 upgrade rule.
A voltage rule probably wouldn't be that big of a deal...I've got more wheelspeed than I know what to do with anyway.
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Old 09-29-2009, 06:56 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude View Post
...... lol...I knew I saw a thread on this somewhere...I searched for the wrong topic.
Have to admit it took me a few shots to finally find it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude View Post
I don't think it'd be too hard to police the upgrades. We're not talking a total amount spent, but per item. Here's my thoughts...

1. $30 limit on most upgrades. A Hitec 645 servo is more than $30. A set of tires is more, etc, etc.

2.If you have access to a machine shop and decide to whip out some trick parts, you have to offer them to everyone else at a price at or less than the limit.

3. ESC's would be a different matter, can't really limit a dollar amount on that. Gotta have a good drag brake. Though it would be pretty interesting without one...

4. Maybe a limit on tire height? 5" or under? What if somebody shows up with Rovers? Gonna tell them "sorry, you have to run in the pro class".

I've already dusted off my sons seldom used Axial RTR and started my sportsman build. Can't wait to get it on the rocks.
And what about the guy who buys some killer rig from a pro for a cheap price? He can't play in the sportsman class?

Don't get me wrong, not trying to shoot down you ideas, it's just tough to be the guy that has to do tech. I've done tech inspections for a fairly big series until I was asked to quit due to strict interpretation of the rulebook (I called one of the most popular guys for blatant cheating of a key rule). I've also done my share of putting stress fractures in rules of nearly everything I've competed in....

The single biggest thing when a newbie shows up to a comp where experience guys are is the intimidation factor of seeing dig in action. It's demoralizing to know that to be competitive you have to buy a new radio that has 3 channels, a dig, and a servo. Not cheap no matter how it's done.

So keep the rules simple. No dig, shafty only. Otherwise the same as the regular 2.2 rules.

I want to see a sportsman class. End of rant......
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Old 09-29-2009, 07:08 PM   #14
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My last two trucks have been "Sportsman" trucks. A Losi (no dig), and before that with my Triple S Axial. Been hella fun comp'n with the Bergs and dig shafties, and I know the new guys love to see a non dig truck beat on the Bergs.

In my opinion it's got to be shafty only, cause I know I can use MOA stall to an advantage the shafty doesn't get. I can even tweak it.

Might want to add in no cutting brakes because you know someone will figure out how to make a Venom Creeper have them. Or maybe just say 2 channel only.
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Old 09-29-2009, 07:10 PM   #15
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No MOAs, clod stall can be used like dig on a vert.

Just make it NO DIG ,SHAFTY ONLY . Same rules as 2.2 class. You got to leave room for guys to improve their rigs. Thats half the fun.
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Old 09-29-2009, 08:06 PM   #16
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My club is running a "Novice" class this year, which means no dig. Also they set up the courses so the first 5 or 6 gates are not to difficult, novice run these, the pro-class continue on to the hard stuff.

I think this is a good idea, there is a big difference between entry level rigs and comp rigs, to say nothing of the skill levels. I have a rig that could do well in a comp, but my driving skills are more at a novice level .
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Old 09-29-2009, 08:15 PM   #17
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My next rig will be a Sportman rig.

I'm over the robo-crawlers. My 2.2 TLT was more fun!
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Old 09-29-2009, 08:29 PM   #18
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I said most mods, not all. Tires are an expected expense, hard to work around those, but they usually come in pairs and a pair is usually less than $30.

Reasonably powerfull servos can be had for less than $30. I don't care for them though...blown the three TP's that I've bought. I would think that they could not be included in the spending limit along with esc's and motors.

Tire height restrictions was just an idea. I've dug my old Badlands (5.04") out of the box to try them out again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Manning View Post
And what about the guy who buys some killer rig from a pro for a cheap price? He can't play in the sportsman class?
No. That would give his machine an advantage over the others. IMO a Sportsman class is there to encourage noobs to get into the hobby and also to learn about driving/tuning/building thier own rig vs learning how to use paypal or credit card.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manning View Post
Don't get me wrong, not trying to shoot down you ideas, it's just tough to be the guy that has to do tech. I've done tech inspections for a fairly big series until I was asked to quit due to strict interpretation of the rulebook (I called one of the most popular guys for blatant cheating of a key rule). I've also done my share of putting stress fractures in rules of nearly everything I've competed in....
Feel free to critisize anything I post up here. If I were the type to get all butthurt, I'd keep my ideas to myself.

Good for you for sticking by your regulation supported guns....poo-poo on them for not playing fair.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Manning View Post
The single biggest thing when a newbie shows up to a comp where experience guys are is the intimidation factor of seeing dig in action. It's demoralizing to know that to be competitive you have to buy a new radio that has 3 channels, a dig, and a servo. Not cheap no matter how it's done.
Oh I know that all too well. My first comp with you guys was dig-less and I only managed to come in next to last because somebody had a nonrepairable breakage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manning View Post
So keep the rules simple. No dig, shafty only. Otherwise the same as the regular 2.2 rules.

I want to see a sportsman class. End of rant......
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCKEDUP RICKY View Post
No MOAs, clod stall can be used like dig on a vert.

Just make it NO DIG ,SHAFTY ONLY . Same rules as 2.2 class. You got to leave room for guys to improve their rigs. Thats half the fun.
Alright, so shafties only.

I'd still like to see a price limit on some parts. Like I said, this class should be focused more on building and driving rather than opening your wallet. When a noob gets his ass handed to him by a rig that isn't modded too far from stock, he'll work on his driving and setup more than running out to buy new parts that he thinks he needs. Save that game for the pro class.

And again, like I said, nearly all of the essential Axial hard parts can be had for less than $30. It may be different for other brands, I don't know...

I've already gotten my rig built for the most part (it made a self propelled lap around the garage this afternoon...woot!). Stock chassis plates, radio, axles, wheels, and for now the RTR servo. Aftermarket parts are a Sidewinder, Revolver motor, some shocks I had rolling around in my parts drawer, and Badlands tires. All the links and link plates I made out of aluminum (cheap), and the skid is made out of a cutting board (cheap). The only things on my shopping list are aluminum C's/knuckles, and a cheapy brushed motor which I'll probably end up building myself anyway.
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Old 09-29-2009, 08:48 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Sounds fun!! I miss the old no-dig TLT days sometimes, but I don't miss what my rig can do these days either...

I would like to do at the comps I run at, first I will see what time I have now running 1.9, 2.2 and Super, see how I can manage things, and gauge interest.
I'm in! Got a rig built up already just need somewhere to run it
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Old 09-29-2009, 09:18 PM   #20
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Just having a no dig ,shafty rule should be enough. IMO. If I have a 135 dollar servo. you have a 50 dollar servo, do they both still turn the wheels.
Your tranny and axles may work good for you with a 45t motor, but mine works better with a 35t.
Everyone likes different tires. A worm gear axle can use a shorter tire and have the same diff clearance, as a nonworm gear axle with a taller tire.
to many rules will turn off a new comer too. No matter what regulation you put on a class, the new driver will have to learn to drive as good as the good drivers.

Chassis, you'll want a tunable chassis.

I have the stuff in my shop to build one right now, and want too.
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