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Old 11-01-2009, 03:18 PM   #1
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Default A Class Question

Not trying to start world war III but, I just wonder why there can't be a shafty class with dig for just shafty rigs? I am still new to crawlers and crawling but I have been racing rc for a few years and we always had a class that was a non-limiting sportman's class. I just think that we could grow the sport much faster if new guys had a chance to win a lower class. Me and several guys around here ,anyway, like to run shafty class. Is it the same everywhere do other people want to run a shafty class that is not limited as far as no dig? Why not have a Pro Moa class and a Pro Shafty class? Just wanting to see how everyone else feels about this subject.
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Old 11-01-2009, 03:32 PM   #2
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How long do you want comps to last? Around here it takes all damn day to run 2.2, 1.9 and super. I'm quite certain we don't have the daylight for it around here.

Beyond that, look at all the LCC's in the top ten at worlds! Do you want them to have to run in a separate class? I know around here the shafty-dig class would be flat dominated by LCC's. So I must ask, are shafties even inferior to MOA, or does driving play more of a part in it? We had a comp some months ago where a guy beat at least one berg driving a (heavily modified) F-350 highlift with no dig, a big ass 3 speed, worn out rock claws and a hardbody.

Point is, you'll have good days and bad days no matter what you're driving. Sack up and drive with the big boys. Most of them are pretty cool anyways, and if you look carefully you might learn something. We don't need more classes.
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Old 11-01-2009, 03:39 PM   #3
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How long do you want comps to last? Around here it takes all damn day to run 2.2, 1.9 and super. I'm quite certain we don't have the daylight for it around here.

Beyond that, look at all the LCC's in the top ten at worlds! Do you want them to have to run in a separate class? I know around here the shafty-dig class would be flat dominated by LCC's. So I must ask, are shafties even inferior to MOA, or does driving play more of a part in it? We had a comp some months ago where a guy beat at least one berg driving a (heavily modified) F-350 highlift with no dig, a big ass 3 speed, worn out rock claws and a hardbody.

Point is, you'll have good days and bad days no matter what you're driving. Sack up and drive with the big boys. Most of them are pretty cool anyways, and if you look carefully you might learn something. We don't need more classes.

I totally agree with Chris on this one up at HTW we just added a "novice class" and it went great . I just got into crawlin a couple of months ago and have a pretty capable AX . I was put into the novice class and had a blast and this was just after I put my dig in. Granted I could not use the dig cause it is against class rules but it will make you a better driver to learn how to drive without dig. Oh and I just wanted to put out there I won the class with my stock chassis AX and I was up against others drivin Berg's so there ya go......
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Old 11-01-2009, 04:02 PM   #4
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Not trying to start world war III but, I just wonder why there can't be a shafty class with dig for just shafty rigs? I am still new to crawlers and crawling but I have been racing rc for a few years and we always had a class that was a non-limiting sportman's class. I just think that we could grow the sport much faster if new guys had a chance to win a lower class. Me and several guys around here ,anyway, like to run shafty class. Is it the same everywhere do other people want to run a shafty class that is not limited as far as no dig? Why not have a Pro Moa class and a Pro Shafty class? Just wanting to see how everyone else feels about this subject.
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Originally Posted by chrisjlittle View Post
How long do you want comps to last? Around here it takes all damn day to run 2.2, 1.9 and super. I'm quite certain we don't have the daylight for it around here.

Beyond that, look at all the LCC's in the top ten at worlds! Do you want them to have to run in a separate class? I know around here the shafty-dig class would be flat dominated by LCC's. So I must ask, are shafties even inferior to MOA, or does driving play more of a part in it? We had a comp some months ago where a guy beat at least one berg driving a (heavily modified) F-350 highlift with no dig, a big ass 3 speed, worn out rock claws and a hardbody.

Point is, you'll have good days and bad days no matter what you're driving. Sack up and drive with the big boys. Most of them are pretty cool anyways, and if you look carefully you might learn something. We don't need more classes.
In my last 2 comps i beat alot of moa rigs losi and berg , with my BWD wheely king and homemade dig. Place 4th and 3rd.
Sometimes it just come down to being able to drive your rig.
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Old 11-01-2009, 04:27 PM   #5
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others drivin Berg's so there ya go......
Uh Tony,,,this ain't no berg,,,but i do agree another class would require driving lights
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Old 11-01-2009, 04:53 PM   #6
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Well like I thought I would get called out no need to tell me to sack up. I will say this yes I do think that a shafty is inferior to a MOA. They both have their advantages but look at what MOST of the guys in the top ten in the world drive. As far as a Hi-lift winning a comp maybe there(not doubting you) but where I comp there are 2 guys that ranked in the top 5 in at Worlds. Now I am not suggesting this for me to win I said TO GROW THE SPORT. Most guys are not going to continue to come to comps to get blasted unless they buy a $1000 or $1500 rig. Locally we do run an all shafty class, we have a lot of fun not just our little group but with everyone at the comp. And I have been learning a lot from watching and talking to other people at the comp. Also we don't run supers too much around here at least not at the comps. Also we normally don't have but about 15 to 20 people at each comp even though that number is growing at every comp by a few we don't run all day. We do have big comps like Nov. 17th right now we have 59 or 60 people signed up. All I am saying if you don't think a MOA has a big advantage then you need to see the people around here drive them and then watch Austin Dunn drive one. Not trying to start anything like telling someone to sack up just saying you would race a Revo vs. a Losi 8ight 2.0.

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Old 11-01-2009, 06:47 PM   #7
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Well like I thought I would get called out no need to tell me to sack up. I will say this yes I do think that a shafty is inferior to a MOA. They both have their advantages but look at what MOST of the guys in the top ten in the world drive. As far as a Hi-lift winning a comp maybe there(not doubting you) but where I comp there are 2 guys that ranked in the top 5 in at Worlds. Now I am not suggesting this for me to win I said TO GROW THE SPORT. Most guys are not going to continue to come to comps to get blasted unless they buy a $1000 or $1500 rig. Locally we do run an all shafty class, we have a lot of fun not just our little group but with everyone at the comp. And I have been learning a lot from watching and talking to other people at the comp. Also we don't run supers too much around here at least not at the comps. Also we normally don't have but about 15 to 20 people at each comp even though that number is growing at every comp by a few we don't run all day. We do have big comps like Nov. 17th right now we have 59 or 60 people signed up. All I am saying if you don't think a MOA has a big advantage then you need to see the people around here drive them and then watch Austin Dunn drive one. Not trying to start anything like telling someone to sack up just saying you would race a Revo vs. a Losi 8ight 2.0.
A shafty can be competitive against a MOA.
I do not see there being enough time in the day for another class.
Now say there is enough time in the day to pull off another class and the reason you want another class is for new guys not to get run off because they do not place well against the MOA guys what happens when the top guys that run MOA bring there Shaft trucks and clean house in that class two?
99% of the time who ever is the top guy with a MOA will win no matter what they are driving.
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Old 11-01-2009, 07:00 PM   #8
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A shafty can be competitive against a MOA.
I do not see there being enough time in the day for another class.
Now say there is enough time in the day to pull off another class and the reason you want another class is for new guys not to get run off because they do not place well against the MOA guys what happens when the top guys that run MOA bring there Shaft trucks and clean house in that class two?
99% of the time who ever is the top guy with a MOA will win no matter what they are driving.
Good Point. This is what I wanted. To get other's point of view. I didn't really think of that. I would think they would want better competition and stay in the MOA class but who knows. Maybe a sportsman's class until a driver gets the skills and wins so many times. Then maybe has to step up. Don't really know just thinking about it. I think there needs to be a stepping stone not just a huge jump.
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Old 11-01-2009, 07:31 PM   #9
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That is basiclly what our novice class is hear at HTW you can what ever you want but you cannot run a dig. Shafties , Bergs whatever just as long as it doesent have dig and let me tell you it will make you a better driver. JMO but I see to many people relying on their dig to much instead of thinkin about the line they are going to run to set themselves up for the next gate but like I said just my opinion.
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Old 11-01-2009, 07:32 PM   #10
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Uh Tony,,,this ain't no berg,,,but i do agree another class would require driving lights

Then what the heck is it ????????LOL
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Old 11-01-2009, 07:34 PM   #11
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another note.......if dig is allowed why not 4ws??
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Old 11-01-2009, 07:44 PM   #12
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Good Point. This is what I wanted. To get other's point of view. I didn't really think of that. I would think they would want better competition and stay in the MOA class but who knows.
I do not think any of them would stop running there MOA rigs but with as competitive as most are they would want to run both classes.
I Know ETRC was talking about a sportsman class and everyone wanted to run it two.Most of the top guys are looking for a challenge and the thought of a no dig class sounded fun.
Almost every time there is a talk on a shafty only class I say the same thing.We have one its 1.9 The class is setup for shaft only rigs.It also helps show my point that the top drivers MOA or shafty are still going to be on top if they decide to run another class.If you look at most clubs points series the top 2.2 drivers that also run 1.9 usually are on top in that class also.
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Old 11-01-2009, 07:45 PM   #13
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another note.......if dig is allowed why not 4ws??
The way our local club does it, no it has to be a comp legal rig. My other local club it is just 2.2, 1.9, and scale. At the club that has a shafty class we don't have any other classes but 2.2 but scalers are making a good run for having a class. Like I said we don't always have a good turn out. Sorry for all the confusion.
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Old 11-01-2009, 07:48 PM   #14
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Well most sportsman's classes will not allow sponsored drivers in it. So you can learn and then move up to pro class and get sponsored.
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Old 11-01-2009, 08:02 PM   #15
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Well most sportsman's classes will not allow sponsored drivers in it. So you can learn and then move up to pro class and get sponsored.
There is no better way to learn than to be thrown in with the wolves!!!

That's how the "Sponsored" drivers had to come up through the ranks.I do not see why it should be any different today.You can not beat the top guys if you do not run with them.You run against Austin and Jeff both great competitors that's nothing new.Before we had to split up the regional clubs and have State clubs there was SERCRC.That was the most competitive club I have ever run with.To run the series you had to run with the best KY,AL,GA,and TN had to offer and the schedule for the series had comps in all 4 states.I learned real quick to Practice every free moment I had so I was ready come game day.Anyone that is willing to put the time in can be competitive without having a starter class.Look at my son he is only 9 and there is now way he would step down a class because he thought he may stand a better chance of winning.He wants to run with the big guys so he can brag when one of them slips and he beats them.
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Old 11-01-2009, 08:15 PM   #16
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Well most sportsman's classes will not allow sponsored drivers in it. So you can learn and then move up to pro class and get sponsored.
This would be hard to distinct being there is different levels of sponsorship. A driver could have an all expense payed deal and another driver could just be getting a % knocked of the sales price of a product. Also say if I give you a $20 dollar motor at a comp to keep and run would that not be a sponsorship.

Be kinda hard to sort out unless you keep all your receipts on everything your running and have them on hand.

I.E. sponsorship should not be a defining element of driver classes.
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Old 11-01-2009, 08:18 PM   #17
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There is no better way to learn than to be thrown in with the wolves!!!

That's how the "Sponsored" drivers had to come up through the ranks.I do not see why it should be any different today.You can not beat the top guys if you do not run with them.You run against Austin and Jeff both great competitors that's nothing new.Before we had to split up the regional clubs and have State clubs there was SERCRC.That was the most competitive club I have ever run with.To run the series you had to run with the best KY,AL,GA,and TN had to offer and the schedule for the series had comps in all 4 states.I learned real quick to Practice every free moment I had so I was ready come game day.Anyone that is willing to put the time in can be competitive without having a starter class.Look at my son he is only 9 and there is now way he would step down a class because he thought he may stand a better chance of winning.He wants to run with the big guys so he can brag when one of them slips and he beats them.
I see your point and agree with you to a degree. I don't think that I will ever be on Austin and Jeff's level they are awesome!! I look at it like this all you guys had to build and fab a lot of your on stuff now there a RTRs and kits to make it cheaper and easier for guys to get into crawlin. That is all that I am saying with a sportsman's class, may not work, may be stupid. Just making a suggestion to try to help grow the sport. I do agree that you have to compete against the best to get better but I think some guys may never want to worlds or huge comps but don't they deserve a class, if there is enough to have a class. Kinda like fishing, there are alot of guys that just like to fish but they will never be pros. Again JMHO
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Old 11-01-2009, 08:22 PM   #18
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This would be hard to distinct being there is different levels of sponsorship. A driver could have an all expense payed deal and another driver could just be getting a % knocked of the sales price of a product. Also say if I give you a $20 dollar motor at a comp to keep and run would that not be a sponsorship.

Be kinda hard to sort out unless you keep all your receipts on everything your running and have them on hand.

I.E. sponsorship should not be a defining element of driver classes.
It is just harder for a guy with a wife and kids to compete than a sponsored driver. I would think a chassis sponsor would count as a sponsored driver.

Again I am not trying to ruffle any feathers or anything I really hope that I am not annoying anyone. I like everyone and don't want anyone to be mad at me.
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Old 11-01-2009, 08:29 PM   #19
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It is just harder for a guy with a wife and kids to compete than a sponsored driver. I would think a chassis sponsor would count as a sponsored driver.

Again I am not trying to ruffle any feathers or anything I really hope that I am not annoying anyone. I like everyone and don't want anyone to be mad at me.
Don't get me wrong, you make a good point but it is hard to keep up with all the different stuff going on at a comp. That will be the biggest reason it will be hard to make a beginner/amateur class work. Watch Jeff/Rockcrawler try to keep up with all this sorta stuff at LRC in two weeks. We'll have to bootleg him some Zanex by dark...

Trust me there is days I wanna be in a beginners classcry:
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Old 11-01-2009, 08:31 PM   #20
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Personally I thnk the class needs to be anovice class by definition and use,,across the board,,,then the independant clubs can run seperate specific classes to grow the sport based on current driver numbers and interest in such a "sub" class,,when the conversations and threads first started,,i saw current driver after current driver talking about building or buying a no dig rig for a "sportsmans class" "sportsman" is and should always be a spec class,,and that isn't a novice class,,,you can't run an indy car in iroc unless they are all iroc's
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