Wheel weight Vs Axle weight.

[TSK]

Sooooo, is this a question or a statement?

[Ads]

Originally Posted by "N8"

Wow, just wow. I feel like I shouldn't even bother trying to defend my words against you people. Please by all means you people are welcome to ignore me.

Brayd i dono what you serched for, but it brought these results: http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/Picture4.png

But for the record I will say I have not herd of any notable person running liquid filled tires from any of you. Irok your "friend" who is #1 on the US circut (as if there is one rock crawling type circit in the us) aperently has no name, and runs lead in the tires on his super crawler. xplorx4 was the only one who brought anything to the table. I read it btw, and I conseed that some people obviously do this, but honestly that azcrawlers site isnt particularly striking as a good place to source info for modifying your buggy. Like I said im sure this is something that people have done, but nobody searious into rock crawling or racing does this.

Shannon Campbell runs just a regular old air filled bfg krawler on his ifs moonbuggy. Casey Currie runs the same. I got to meet Lucas Murphy and Ian Johnson just a bit ago on a trail run where Lucas was running his KOH comp rig on a run that my buddys fab shop hosted. Funny... he didnt say anything about water filled tires when he was goin over his rig.

But then again im an idiot.
Feel free to keep up the notably polite conversation.

A bit of useless information for you, but tractors will run water in one tyre for when they mow grass on the sides of hills. They keep the water filled tyre on the uphill side to reduce the chance of a roll over.

Any way I wanted to offer a more simpler way to show the effects of having the weight on the wheel.
If you hold your arms out straight, either out to the side or out in front it doesnt matter, then add weight to it. More strength/power is required to lift the weight the further away it is from your body.

[irok]

no harm intended...also i never said he was "#1 on the circut",i said i have 1 friend that runs alot of the major US events.

[Bray D]

Originally Posted by N8

Brayd i dono what you serched for, but it brought these results: http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/Picture4.png

hmm, I don't know why my link didn't work. I searched "water in tires" in the titles only and came up with a page full of threads on the topic.

Originally Posted by N8

But for the record I will say I have not herd of any notable person running liquid filled tires from any of you.......... but nobody searious into rock crawling or racing does this.

How about Dustin and Becca Webster (Drive for RedBull)? Does the RockHer II buggy sound familiar?

Pirate thread of Dustin describing the method used to fill the tires
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthrea...ht=water+tires

Pic of Becca's WERock comp buggy


Read post #7 and #10, they run 75% full for comp situations
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthrea...ht=water+tires

Another thread on it just for shits
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthrea...ht=water+tires

You'll find that most of the threads on it are a bit dated. That's because if anyone brings it up anymore they tell the fawkin newb to search since its been covered a million times.

["N8"]

I did not know that Becca Webster did this.

I stand corrected.

[jr104]

Originally Posted by "N8"

But for the record I will say I have not herd of any notable person running liquid filled tires from any of you. Irok your "friend" who is #1 on the US circut (as if there is one rock crawling type circit in the us) aperently has no name, and runs lead in the tires on his super crawler. xplorx4 was the only one who brought anything to the table. I read it btw, and I conseed that some people obviously do this, but honestly that azcrawlers site isnt particularly striking as a good place to source info for modifying your buggy. Like I said im sure this is something that people have done, but nobody searious into rock crawling or racing does this.

Shannon Campbell runs just a regular old air filled bfg krawler on his ifs moonbuggy. Casey Currie runs the same. I got to meet Lucas Murphy and Ian Johnson just a bit ago on a trail run where Lucas was running his KOH comp rig on a run that my buddys fab shop hosted. Funny... he didnt say anything about water filled tires when he was goin over his rig.

But then again im an idiot.
Feel free to keep up the notably polite conversation.

That fact is running water and lead in tires does work in 1.1 crawling. Just because Shannon Cambel , Casey Currie, Or Lucas did not admit they are running it doesn't mean they aren't. Come on now, In my years of drag racing, rock crawling, etc. Both building and driving. I have never met anybody, especially the ones that are sucessfull at it , that will admit to there exact set up they run. If anything I have learned the opposite to be true. Most are gonna leave key things out or even flat out lie to throw there competition off. Your statement kinda just makes me laugh. In competition you never trust the opposition. Quit beleiving everything you read on Pirate.


By the way Some of the AZcrawler BTG buggies will out crawl many of the so called professionals .


Jake

[Simon.O.]

Politics and competitions aside lets get back on topic. Wheel vs Axle.
Yes I can see that in the 1:1 world in the tire would be good for two reasons.
1. Easy to hide
2. No foam to deform or work around.

Back to the whole weight issue.
I did a lot more testing today with the rig on a wire. Battery in hand and a light flex cable to the esc and zip-tied to the chassis rear. Should have taken a pic as it would have looked funny with me chasing the crawler 6 feet behind.

I did a lot of suspension work today and ran it on the "test-board" in the workshop and out on the rocks too for a bit of real world driving.

I have got to the point where 4oz on the axle, 2oz each side near the knuckles is plenty enough for me. This has come down from 8oz yesterday.
Suspension geometry is the key and then shock/spring loaction, oil which is only a damper is last.

I am on duty for the next few days and will wait for the Lipos to arrive and then will do a lot more testing to see where I am at.

I know that 90deg vertical is not realistic but aiming for it is fun.

[jr104]

Originally Posted by Simon.O.

Politics and competitions aside lets get back on topic. Wheel vs Axle.
Yes I can see that in the 1:1 world in the tire would be good for two reasons.
1. Easy to hide
2. No foam to deform or work around.

Back to the whole weight issue.
I did a lot more testing today with the rig on a wire. Battery in hand and a light flex cable to the esc and zip-tied to the chassis rear. Should have taken a pic as it would have looked funny with me chasing the crawler 6 feet behind.

I did a lot of suspension work today and ran it on the "test-board" in the workshop and out on the rocks too for a bit of real world driving.

I have got to the point where 4oz on the axle, 2oz each side near the knuckles is plenty enough for me. This has come down from 8oz yesterday.
Suspension geometry is the key and then shock/spring loaction, oil which is only a damper is last.

I am on duty for the next few days and will wait for the Lipos to arrive and then will do a lot more testing to see where I am at.

I know that 90deg vertical is not realistic but aiming for it is fun.

Whatever works for you, I perfer it in the tire. I agree suspension geometry is key. I think most are using weight like a bandaid. Really only masking the problem. Which is ant-squat. My RTC's anti-squat was -28. Gee maybee that's why it wants to drive under itself when climbing????? Rhetorical question.

Jake

[Manning]

Weight in the wheel can also create the gyro effect, which can be used to your advantage.

This morning on Xtreme 4x4 they had Shannon Campbell on, and they claimed there was 300 lbs of shot in the tires, but that they were going to experiment with water for next season. Jessi was on the show, so that episode was a year or more old.

[00f150]

i run 3oz. in each front tire. and have a 2s lipo on the rear upper arms. that seems to work for me. but i dont do comps i just do it for fun

[shelljeep]

Hey Simon, what kind of angle were you able to pull on your incline board with the Nimh batt vs what you are able to achieve now running 2 oz each side after tuning?
Have you mapped out your suspension, figured out where you are with antisquat, roll center and axis?

[Simon.O.]

Originally Posted by shelljeep

Hey Simon, what kind of angle were you able to pull on your incline board with the Nimh batt vs what you are able to achieve now running 2 oz each side after tuning?
Have you mapped out your suspension, figured out where you are with antisquat, roll center and axis?

I can get a consistant 62deg climb with almost any setup........no higher.
A few days ago I did map out my geometry and have since moved it a bit without updating my drawing. At a guess I have a bit of antisquat in the rear with a bias to the left to stop that side squating and lifting the right front.
I will plot it all out again in the next few days and see where I am at.
One thing is for sure with my rear link setup the IC is a long way forward of the front wheel when it meets the Neutral antisquat line that runs from the rear up through the CG-front wheel intersect point.

I'll see if I can do a paint on a photo and get it up in my Creeper thread soon.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by "N8"

But for the record I will say I have not herd of any notable person running liquid filled tires from any of you.

Haha....ya know what's funny. Ian, from Xtreme4x4 must have been reading through this thread, because yesterday they replayed an old episode that showed Shannon Campbell's old buggy (the red one before he was picked up by Monster) and he went through a fairly detailed explanation of how he currently ran 300lbs of buckshot in each tire and was experimenting with water. At the time (2006) he was the top driver....now, I am not sure if he is still the top, but he's up there.

[signalmtncrawler]

I personally have competed in werock events and know for a fact people run lead in there tires for example Randy Torbett runs so much lead in his front tires you can not roll them when there off his buggy and he was the world champ a couple years ago , I would say that's pretty notable not to flame you but If you don't know what your talking about you shouldn't try and act like it N8