need help wit new wormanatior

[shelljeep]

Rusty, I got the bearings ordered last night, so things are progressing. The seller is supposed to have mailed out the 25:1 regears yesterday also.
I'll be sure to post up once I begin the swap.

[rcjackson0926]

Originally Posted by shelljeep

Rusty, I got the bearings ordered last night, so things are progressing. The seller is supposed to have mailed out the 25:1 regears yesterday also.
I'll be sure to post up once I begin the swap.

How do the gears in the worminators look to you? Do they seem like they would be stronger than the LCC gears?

[shelljeep]

I'll take some measurements and post up some comparison pics tonight.

[shelljeep]

Alright, here's the scoop.
The biggest difference between the Losi worms and the RC4WD worms is in the spool. The RC4WD spool diameter is substantially bigger.(.820 vs. .625)
Some of this is because of the difference in ratios, as I'm comparing 40:1 Worminator stuff vs. the Losi 25:1 stuff.

For the 25:1 regear, RC4WD increased the size of the pinion teeth and made up the difference by slightly reducing the diameter of the spool. I don't have the 25:1 regears yet, but in the pics on their site, you can clearly notice larger, coarser teeth on the pinion. I believe the 25:1 worminator pinion teeth will be larger than the Losi pinion teeth, since the fine 40:1 teeth are basicaly the same size as Losi's 25:1 teeth right now.

The tooth width on the RC4WD spool is wider than the Losi stuff. (.275 vs .200)

The shaft size on the pinion is nearly identical, .001 advantage to RC4WD.

The tooth area on the RC4WD pinion is .035 longer than the Losi stuff, but again, that's not apples to apples, it's 40:1 vs. 25:1. The RC4WD regear will likely have a shorter length on it's helical than the 40:1, since the larger pinion teeth won't have as much room to engage multiple spool teeth due to the slightly smaller diameter of the spool. Not necessarily a bad thing, just what they had to do to make it fit in the housing.

The carrier bearings on the RC4WD stuff is beefier also. No measurements, but that's no optical illusion in the pics either. You can clearly see it.

No shims in the RC4WD design. None. Verified by an email from a tech at 1045 PM tonight.

Pinion comparison, Losi is on top, RC4WD on bottom:


Spool comparison, Losi is on top, RC4WD on bottom. I pulled out the bearings away from the RC4WD spool teeth to more clearly show their width:


Another view of the spools:


The difference in carrier bearings:


Here's a pic of the RC4wd regear profile from their site:


And here is the 40:1 as shown on their site:

[rcjackson0926]

Originally Posted by shelljeep

Alright, here's the scoop.
The biggest difference between the Losi worms and the RC4WD worms is in the spool. The RC4WD spool diameter is substantially bigger.(.820 vs. .625)
Some of this is because of the difference in ratios, as I'm comparing 40:1 Worminator stuff vs. the Losi 25:1 stuff.

For the 25:1 regear, RC4WD increased the size of the pinion teeth and made up the difference by slightly reducing the diameter of the spool. I don't have the 25:1 regears yet, but in the pics on their site, you can clearly notice larger, coarser teeth on the pinion. I believe the 25:1 worminator pinion teeth will be larger than the Losi pinion teeth, since the fine 40:1 teeth are basicaly the same size as Losi's 25:1 teeth right now.

The tooth width on the RC4WD spool is wider than the Losi stuff. (.275 vs .200)

The shaft size on the pinion is nearly identical, .001 advantage to RC4WD.

The tooth area on the RC4WD pinion is .035 longer than the Losi stuff, but again, that's not apples to apples, it's 40:1 vs. 25:1. The RC4WD regear will likely have a shorter length on it's helical than the 40:1, since the larger pinion teeth won't have as much room to engage multiple spool teeth due to the slightly smaller diameter of the spool. Not necessarily a bad thing, just what they had to do to make it fit in the housing.

The carrier bearings on the RC4WD stuff is beefier also. No measurements, but that's no optical illusion in the pics either. You can clearly see it.

No shims in the RC4WD design. None. Verified by an email from a tech at 1045 PM tonight.

Pinion comparison, Losi is on top, RC4WD on bottom:


Spool comparison, Losi is on top, RC4WD on bottom. I pulled out the bearings away from the RC4WD spool teeth to more clearly show their width:


Another view of the spools:


The difference in carrier bearings:


Here's a pic of the RC4wd regear profile from their site:


And here is the 40:1 as shown on their site:

Thanks for the comparison. It is hard to tell, but it looks like the worminator gears might be slightly stronger. I guess I will just have to keep an eye on your thread to see how it goes.

[shelljeep]

They are stronger, definitely bigger. I think it will be more obvious when comparing the 25:1 stuff. Since they start off with a larger diameter, there is more room for larger teeth on the helical and the spool when they drop down the ratio.
I think a huge amount of strength is gained from the machined metal housing. Everytime I've broken worms, the plastic housings showed grease coming out from between the seams. This means that the threads would strip out, and let the housing move while under load. Won't have that problem now.
How much voltage are you putting to the 21.5T motor? How many worms have you broken?

[rcjackson0926]

Originally Posted by shelljeep

They are stronger, definitely bigger. I think it will be more obvious when comparing the 25:1 stuff. Since they start off with a larger diameter, there is more room for larger teeth on the helical and the spool when they drop down the ratio.
I think a huge amount of strength is gained from the machined metal housing. Everytime I've broken worms, the plastic housings showed grease coming out from between the seams. This means that the threads would strip out, and let the housing move while under load. Won't have that problem now.
How much voltage are you putting to the 21.5T motor? How many worms have you broken?

I am running 4s, and have stripped two sets of gears in about two hours of drive time.

[overland_yj]

i was running a 2s on my 25:1 worminator gears and after very little use (3 battery charges) they are badly worn.....NICE JOB RC4WD!!!

[shelljeep]

Did you open them up and pack them with grease before you ran them? They only have a light oil from the factory.
Edit- now that I've had my second coffee, I realized this was a regear so I bet you did grease them. Is that correct?

[STANG KILLA SS]

does anyone have the MOA wormsinators? do all these problems affect those as well?

[overland_yj]

Originally Posted by shelljeep

Did you open them up and pack them with grease before you ran them? They only have a light oil from the factory.
Edit- now that I've had my second coffee, I realized this was a regear so I bet you did grease them. Is that correct?

yes it was a re-gear so i of course greased the s**t out of them when i installed em. the 40:1's had very little wear and seem to be better construction of it may just be the way they mesh that prevents them wearing badly.

[overland_yj]

well everyone, had any luck with the worminator axles? i have put mine aside for now as i had given up temporarily but will be getting back to it soon. RC4WD has sent me a replacement transmission for the 1:1 that i purchased and it did not do the trick. what setups are you guys running or trying?

[shelljeep]

Well, I finally got the shipping confirmation on my 25:1 gears so I hope to be able to swap them into my shafty LCC later this week. I'll post up once I've done some testing.

[shelljeep]

I have about an hour on the shafty worminators now, regeared 25:1.
It think it has the same wheelspeed/torque as the Losi axles. There may be a tiny bit more drag, but I can't say for sure. The motor temps have stayed the same so I don't think it's much. I'm running them under an LCC with a 21.5 LRP Crawler motor on 4s through a MM Pro.
I took some photos of the 25:1 gears compared to the Losi gears, the Worminator gears are noticeably bigger than the stock Losi stuff.
If these end up being more durable then the Losi worms( of which I have broken 4 sets), than it's worth it.
The added clearance is a bonus, I've noticed it a couple times already.
I did lose some turning angle, but I think that I can get that back with some careful dremel work on the knucks.

[rcjackson0926]

Originally Posted by shelljeep

I have about an hour on the shafty worminators now, regeared 25:1.
It think it has the same wheelspeed/torque as the Losi axles. There may be a tiny bit more drag, but I can't say for sure. The motor temps have stayed the same so I don't think it's much. I'm running them under an LCC with a 21.5 LRP Crawler motor on 4s through a MM Pro.
I took some photos of the 25:1 gears compared to the Losi gears, the Worminator gears are noticeably bigger than the stock Losi stuff.
If these end up being more durable then the Losi worms( of which I have broken 4 sets), than it's worth it.
The added clearance is a bonus, I've noticed it a couple times already.
I did lose some turning angle, but I think that I can get that back with some careful dremel work on the knucks.

Can you use the new v6 XVD's on that axle? Keep us posted on how it holds up for you. I have broken 3 sets of gears on the Losi so far, and like you said, it would be worth it if this one holds up.

[shelljeep]

I sent an email to RC4wd about shafts this morning. Here are the pics of the 25:1 worms compared to the Losi worms.

The worminator pinion is the shiny big one.


Losi on the left:


Guess which spool is the worminator?

[overland_yj]

i know this thread is a little old now but feel it needs an update. i had the 40:1 gears and with multiple transmissions (ax-10, RC4WD-R2Dig and RC4WD-1:1) i couldnt get them right. swapped in the 25:1 tranny and still not good. so slow and so noisey. yes they were greased and the lash between the pinion and tranny gears was set correctly. then i broke a rear axle shaft where it goes into the worm gear. Also it needs to be mentioned i tried multiple motor/battery combos, 2 and 3 cell lipos and 55 turn brushed and 18.5 brushless and 13.5 brushless.....

so thats it.....i am over the worminators.

anyone else have updates?

[shelljeep]

OverlandYJ, you need to regear them to 25:1 and treat them like the Losi axles as far as motor and voltage goes.
edit- I reread the thread and see you already did this. It's hard for me to understand how you can be having so much trouble out of these compared to me. I basically swapped them directly into my LCC and had no issues. Perhaps the LCC tranny is what you need. I really like them on 4s but that's personal preference, not absolutely required. Plenty of top competitors are having great luck with the LCC axles on 3s, even 2s. Wish I could be more help.

I work offshore for a month at a stretch so things progress slowly for me as far as testing goes.
I have about 12 hours on the worminators now. I'm happy with them. They adapt over to the LCC with very little change in geometry for your links. I did lay the shocks back a bit more to get rid of the extra chassis height from the portal's link mount locations. Handles just as well as before.

I inspected the worms a couple days ago, the worm looked NEW, the spool had a totally acceptable wear pattern, centered on the teeth.
Since I did the 25:1 regear, the performance is exactly the same as the Losi axles, but with added clearance from the portal design. I did some careful clearancing around the bell and knuckles, now it steers as sharp as the Losi's also. I've swapped the tierod behind the axle, next is to figure out what to do for the BTA draglink.

I broke the ball off of a dogbone, RC4WD warranted it for me, sent me a replacement. Recently just broke a pin at the ball end of a rear dogbone.
I don't take it easy on these axles. The breakage doesn't surprise me.

I think the key to running these axles is the same as required for the LCC as long as you regear to 25:1. Brushless 21.5T on 4s gets it done. No heat problems, no excessive cogging, plenty of wheelspeed to climb steep slick walls if need be.

I recently bought an FF4 Fastback chassis that I will be swapping my running gear into sometime in October when I get home.

Good luck with these axles. It can be done successfully, and you will be happy when you are done.

[overland_yj]

Originally Posted by shelljeep

OverlandYJ, you need to regear them to 25:1 and treat them like the Losi axles as far as motor and voltage goes.
edit- I reread the thread and see you already did this. It's hard for me to understand how you can be having so much trouble out of these compared to me. I basically swapped them directly into my LCC and had no issues. Perhaps the LCC tranny is what you need. I really like them on 4s but that's personal preference, not absolutely required. Plenty of top competitors are having great luck with the LCC axles on 3s, even 2s. Wish I could be more help.

I work offshore for a month at a stretch so things progress slowly for me as far as testing goes.
I have about 12 hours on the worminators now. I'm happy with them. They adapt over to the LCC with very little change in geometry for your links. I did lay the shocks back a bit more to get rid of the extra chassis height from the portal's link mount locations. Handles just as well as before.

I inspected the worms a couple days ago, the worm looked NEW, the spool had a totally acceptable wear pattern, centered on the teeth.
Since I did the 25:1 regear, the performance is exactly the same as the Losi axles, but with added clearance from the portal design. I did some careful clearancing around the bell and knuckles, now it steers as sharp as the Losi's also. I've swapped the tierod behind the axle, next is to figure out what to do for the BTA draglink.

I broke the ball off of a dogbone, RC4WD warranted it for me, sent me a replacement. Recently just broke a pin at the ball end of a rear dogbone.
I don't take it easy on these axles. The breakage doesn't surprise me.

I think the key to running these axles is the same as required for the LCC as long as you regear to 25:1. Brushless 21.5T on 4s gets it done. No heat problems, no excessive cogging, plenty of wheelspeed to climb steep slick walls if need be.

I recently bought an FF4 Fastback chassis that I will be swapping my running gear into sometime in October when I get home.

Good luck with these axles. It can be done successfully, and you will be happy when you are done.

thanks for your input, after way too many versions of trying these i have given up. i have fixed what was broken in the axles and now they are for sale. better luck to the next guy, i'll stick with axial axles next time.