MST CMX RTR vs Redcat Everest Gen7 Sport RTR

[high plains drifter]

I searched but with some specifics involved, I decided to start a new thread.

I've got a TRX4 but now my fiance is showing interest in this awesome world of crawling/ trailing so I want to get her a vehicle. I really wanted to get another TRX4 but she just cringes at the price tag and I can't really blame her. Plus the benefit of adding a different crawler to the family is obvious... something new to drive and wrench on, etc.

So with it narrowed down to the CMX and the Gen7, which would you guys choose?

The CMX is now down to $177 but the Gen7 is only $199. Either of these would be feasible. I will say that I like the CMX Toyota FJ body much more than the kind of strange-looking Gen7 body. I can't even tell what it is lol... Ford Excursion? Dunno but regardless, she likes the FJ a bit more as well. Whatever one we choose, I want it to be able to keep up with my TRX4. I know that whichever one we go with won't be quite as capable as the TRX4 ( lacking weight, lockers, portals, etc) but I'd at least like for us both to be able to take these rigs out together and do some long trails and light crawling.

One thing that I don't care for with the Gen7 is that it's NiMH powered. That brings me to another concern... With the Gen7 ESC and motor, can I even run lipo? I don't want to add too much more ( preferably nothing) to the cost of getting this rig up and running. I already have a smaller Turnigy 2200 2S that I'm hoping will fit the battery tray in the CMX plus I can buy a couple more for under $12 each, so...

Which would you choose? Is there anything about the Gen7 Sport RTR that makes it a significantly better value or better performer than the CMX?

I'm hoping to get this finalized today, so any immediate help, opinions, etc would be greatly appreciated. Thank you guys so much.

[fyrstormer]

I don't know anything about the Redcat Everest specifically, but Redcat has always struck me as a cheap brand. The MST CMX, on the other hand, is a rock-solid vehicle, though you'll need to install your own bearings and you should upgrade to the optional metal transmission gears while you've got the transmission taken apart. As a bonus, the CMX fits bodies intended for the Tamiya CC-01, so there are options to choose from.

Here's my CMX build thread: Build Complete: MST CMX

EDIT: I see you already found my build thread.

[high plains drifter]

Yep! I absolutely love that build... It inspired my fondness of that platform. I certainly don't mind upgrading some small things like bearings and gears.

Thanks so much for the input!

[StomperCrawler]

Keep in mind that the MST CMX and CFX are about 20% shorter wheelbase (distance between the axles) than the Gen7, Scx10, etc. Still, I wish I'd picked up a CFX kit for $136 when they were on sale at Amain. :crying:

Here's a comparison shot of the Scx10 ii, CMX, and Cc01 (left to right):

[Jim85IROC]

The tiny size of the MST is what keeps me away from it. All of my other trucks are larger, and a tiny one just won't match, nor will it be happy crawling in the same terrain as my larger trucks. The Redcat is the same size as the TRX4, so I think it will make a much more appropriate companion truck as long as you can get over the way the body looks.

From a capability perspective, the Redcat is very good. The tires it comes with are the best RTR tires I've used. From a capability standpoint, the only real limitation out of the box is the shitty steering, but you can get a lot more steering angle out of it at minimal cost just by trimming the stops on the steering knuckles, using offset links on the drag link and adding a longer servo arm. To get more steering than what that can do, you're going to need to upgrade to the CV axles that come with the Gen7 Pro, and countersink the chub screws. I did all of that to my Gen7 and the steering is much improved.

Here's my steering upgrade video that goes through all of that in detail:


Another future upgrade area is going to be to replace the plastic lockers with metal lockers. I ordered a pair of the metal ones on Ebay for under $20, but the stock plastic ones still looked perfect when I removed them, so I don't consider this a "must do" unless you expect to pound the crap out of the truck.

Lastly, there's a lot that you can do to improve the cosmetics of the truck. If you have access to a 3D printer, Redcat has offered the stl files for headlight assemblies, a front grill, door handles, license plate frame and more. There's also the option to get some inexpensive vinyl wrap material in any of the million patterns available on ebay and customize the appearance that way. I did that with my Gen7 to make it match my Bomber, and I'm real happy with how it turned out. I used 2 different (but complimentary) patterns to get the look I was after.

Gen7 by jim85iroc, on Flickr

DIY LED Bar by jim85iroc, on Flickr

DIY LED Bar by jim85iroc, on Flickr

[durok]

While I am a fan of MST and would lean that way myself - the Gen7 will of course run on LiPo.

There is no 1/10th crawler in production today by a brand with solid US distribution (to my knowledge) that will ONLY run NiMH batteries.

They come with many (even "Name" brand) R/Cs when you buy them RTR.

Give away the battery and charger, get a decent LiPo setup and never look back...

But, I'd still get a MST... I like the CFX with the forward-mounted motor.

It's absolutely INSANE how many different Tamiya bodies will fit on these things, you'll never get bored with it.

Oh, and the new Proline Suzuki Samurai fits, too!

[Jim85IROC]

Circling back around to the NiMH thing for a bit; I ran my Gen7 on the stock NiMH for a while before I got around to soldering an XT60 onto the ESC in order to use my lipos. The NiMH worked fine. It had less torque and probably less top speed, but neither of those really presented an issue when moving at >1mph on the trails and on the rocks. Running NiMH in a basher generally sucks, but in a trail/crawler truck, I really don't think it's all that bad.

But, yes, the Gen7 ESC is perfectly suitable for 2S and 3S lipo usage. There's a jumper on the ESC that you move in order for it to provide a lipo cutoff.

[fyrstormer]

Originally Posted by Jim85IROC

The tiny size of the MST is what keeps me away from it. All of my other trucks are larger, and a tiny one just won't match, nor will it be happy crawling in the same terrain as my larger trucks. The Redcat is the same size as the TRX4, so I think it will make a much more appropriate companion truck as long as you can get over the way the body looks.

Well yes, the point of having a smaller truck is to have fun with smaller obstacles that a larger truck would roll over and barely notice. I admit my CFX looks pint-sized compared to my SCX10 II, Ascender, TRX-4, and Wraith, but when it's by itself in the woods it looks fine.

I will concede the point about running it alongside a TRX-4. It's entirely possible the capabilities of the CMX will be too diminished compared to the TRX-4 and it may not be able to hold its own. In that case, the MST CFX-W would be a better bet, because it's a "standard" 1.9" truck -- and portal axles are included in the kit, unlike every other scaler except the TRX-4.

[LSXGMC]

I’d spring for the new Axial Honcho if you can stretch your budget. Much more comparable to the TRX and keep in mind, you’ll likely be driving the crappier truck if/when she gets frustrated, so get something decent. The Axial will put you in a way better position in terms of replacement parts and upgrades too.

[alexleblanc]

I've got a few of the MST CMX kits that I've built and wheeled, they are a blast even if they aren't as capable as the larger offering out there. I like the Tamiya CC01 sized rigs as they can make terrain more challenging and the MST stuff is well put together other than the driveshafts.

[high plains drifter]

I genuinely appreciate the time and effort that this community contributes in regards to helping each other out. Sincere gratitude to all that have chimed in here. <--- Super roundabout way of saying "Thank you, all!"

One thing that continually effected our final decision, was the fairly notable discrepancies between the cheaper rigs and the TRX4. Essentially I felt as if both the CMX and the Gen7 Sport would forever be struggling to hold their own up against the TRX4. While I enjoy modifying and upgrading vehicles, that just meant potentially spending more and more money simply to get the MST or Gen7 close to the TRX4's capabilities.

So then we began considering other vehicles like the Ascender ( still a rig that I'd like to have at some point) the Venture, the SCX10 II, and the Gen7 Pro. Another factor was that many of the RTR rigs out there have bodies that my fiance doesn't care for and I honestly don't really feel like painting bodies right now. So as seemingly trivial as it would be to finish a new shell, it cancelled out a few otherwise potential candidates.

At this point we were really straying away from the initial plan of procuring a cheap rig that might keep up with the TRX4. So after some additional discussion that primarily focused on the aspect of handling long trails with crawling and obstacles... one rig leading the other, we decided that there was truly only one way to adequately level the playing field... another TRX4 ( Bronco of course).

Budget be damned, right? But since I'm already set up with spare parts and some degree of familiarity with the TRX4, it's the one that I feel most comfortable with understanding, maintaining, wrenching on, etc ( oh, and shhhh... upgrading ). Our new addition should be here by the end of the week and we'll absorb the cost in time. Although it's easier for me to "accept" this purchase lol, I'm sure that she does too.

Thanks again guys for all the input.

[LSXGMC]

Great decision ^

[Old n ratty]

Granted mines the CFX, but while every now and then the shortness catches it out it doesn't struggle against the TRX's/ Axials etc I run with...
Shortness an issue here:
29597266_1826677940699507_983419792690889886_n by Peter Rathbone, on Flickr

Got up this lot just fine...
20180217_105339 by Peter Rathbone, on Flickr

But either way you'll be happy! The major issues, with the MST's is parts. Yes you can get them, but only found that I have to import from Asia or Europe. Nothing really in the UK, TRX bits, everywhere! So that'd be the issues that sways me in your place...

[high plains drifter]

Initially she really wanted to keep things on the cheap and at only $177, the CMX appeared to be the ticket but when we found that it was no longer available through amain ( LC40 I meant to say earlier... not the FJ) then we were left with the Gen7 as the next best alternative. Problem there was that when I started to compare the two Gen7 flavors, I just knew that I'd be putting a lot of additional money into the $199 Sport... and still, with a body that I just couldn't quite digest. So at that point we were looking at rigs that were $300+ and that's where we decided to just get something that I'd previously been wanting anyway.

I still like a lot about both the CMX and Gen7 ( especially after seeing fyrstormer's CMX Bronco build) but I truly think that my girl is going to have a good deal more fun with something that she can lock to get unstuck rather than pick up by hand and subsequently choose an easier line. Oh, and when I kick her butt I don't want her excuse to be "Well mine wasn't as capable" lol.

The advice offered here has been VERY helpful even though I ultimately chose to go a different route. Sometimes that additional bit of insight is exactly what's needed to make a decision.

[Jim85IROC]

it's hard to go wrong with the TRX4. I still think the Gen7 is a fantastic truck for the money, but it's no TRX4.

[fyrstormer]

The CFX-W probably would've worked as well as the TRX-4, but I can't fault you for buying two of the same rig. Like you said, it will save you from arguments about whether it was her truck's fault that she couldn't clear an obstacle that you could. It also sends a message that she's "worth it" to get a truck as good as yours, instead of a cheap substitute.

[high plains drifter]

Originally Posted by fyrstormer

The CFX-W probably would've worked as well as the TRX-4, but I can't fault you for buying two of the same rig. Like you said, it will save you from arguments about whether it was her truck's fault that she couldn't clear an obstacle that you could. It also sends a message that she's "worth it" to get a truck as good as yours, instead of a cheap substitute.

Absolutely! I'm sure that the CFX-W is a formidable platform but for $250-$300 and no tx, rx, esc, body, etc... it just didn't fit in with my budget nor my intentions. The CMX began to concern me in regards to her potentially becoming frustrated and subsequently uninterested if she wouldn't be keeping up with the TRX4. As much as I love to slow things down and take my time crawling, exploring various lines, clearing trails, etc... I know that the fun for her is more point-n-shoot.

I think it'll be interesting to see what kind of difference the shorter wheelbase will make as opposed to my D110. One thing's for sure... It better not take a TRX4 to make her realize how much she's worth to me lol. We're scheduled to be married next month and on that date, it will have been exactly 5 years to the day, from when we first met. In that time we've had maybe 3-4 arguments so any bruised egos will likely subside quickly with some bacon-cheddar cheese fries and a kiss haha.

Thanks, man!

[fyrstormer]

Originally Posted by high plains drifter

Absolutely! I'm sure that the CFX-W is a formidable platform but for $250-$300 and no tx, rx, esc, body, etc... it just didn't fit in with my budget nor my intentions. The CMX began to concern me in regards to her potentially becoming frustrated and subsequently uninterested if she wouldn't be keeping up with the TRX4. As much as I love to slow things down and take my time crawling, exploring various lines, clearing trails, etc... I know that the fun for her is more point-n-shoot.

I think it'll be interesting to see what kind of difference the shorter wheelbase will make as opposed to my D110. One thing's for sure... It better not take a TRX4 to make her realize how much she's worth to me lol. We're scheduled to be married next month and on that date, it will have been exactly 5 years to the day, from when we first met. In that time we've had maybe 3-4 arguments so any bruised egos will likely subside quickly with some bacon-cheddar cheese fries and a kiss haha.

Thanks, man!

Kits usually don't include electronics these days because everyone wants to use their preferred electronics, so included electronics usually end up getting thrown in the landfill and polluting the groundwater. (mine do, anyway; most of them don't sell for enough to cover the cost of postage, and there's no good electronics recycling program where I live, which is just stupid.) The CFX-W is available with an included ESC and motor for $329 from RPP Hobby, but you'd still have to trim, paint, and decorate a body for it. It's hard to argue with Traxxas convenience, that's for sure.

As far as performance is concerned, I weighed my TRX-4 Defender tonight and I was astounded to see it weighs only 44g less than my Axial Wraith. I put brass portal housings and MIP center driveshafts on it, plus the requisite beadlock wheels, but that's it. I've done way more "weight-enhancing" mods to my Wraith to get it to the 3560g it's at now. The TRX-4 is just a damn heavy truck -- but at least most of that weight comes from all the cool features it includes. The Bronco version should be a little lighter up-top without the ExoCage, but other than that it's the same truck as the Defender.

Good luck getting hitched. Maybe you can strap the pillow with the rings on it to the roof of the truck and drive it down the aisle like a huge dork. ;)

[high plains drifter]

Originally Posted by fyrstormer

Kits usually don't include electronics these days because everyone wants to use their preferred electronics, so included electronics usually end up getting thrown in the landfill and polluting the groundwater. (mine do, anyway; most of them don't sell for enough to cover the cost of postage, and there's no good electronics recycling program where I live, which is just stupid.) The CFX-W is available with an included ESC and motor for $329 from RPP Hobby, but you'd still have to trim, paint, and decorate a body for it. It's hard to argue with Traxxas convenience, that's for sure.

As far as performance is concerned, I weighed my TRX-4 Defender tonight and I was astounded to see it weighs only 44g less than my Axial Wraith. I put brass portal housings and MIP center driveshafts on it, plus the requisite beadlock wheels, but that's it. I've done way more "weight-enhancing" mods to my Wraith to get it to the 3560g it's at now. The TRX-4 is just a damn heavy truck -- but at least most of that weight comes from all the cool features it includes. The Bronco version should be a little lighter up-top without the ExoCage, but other than that it's the same truck as the Defender.

Good luck getting hitched. Maybe you can strap the pillow with the rings on it to the roof of the truck and drive it down the aisle like a huge dork. ;)

The out-of-the-box-weight was something that also played into the decision to go with another TRX4. With the Bronco's wheelbase being a bit shorter than the D110 and its approach/ departure angle a bit better... she has no reason to get discouraged due to the "My crawler isn't as capable as yours" argument lol. Our maiden run with the new Bronco wasn't very fun for her unfortunately... the Bronco's steering servo crapping out after less than 30 minutes. Hopefully the next run will prove more rewarding.

All in all, I'm happy with having another TRX4 even though I'm pretty sure that the CMX or Gen7 both would've been a lot of fun too.

Lol... I like the idea of the "mobile ring carrier" but I doubt she'd be very receptive of that! Could be a cool game though, especially with the 2-speed transmission... "Hey Honey... If you can catch the ring then... ". Hmmm... On second thought... that might not be a good idea lmao. Alternatively though, we're planning to go camping for our honeymoon so that'll be a nice opportunity for some full-size Jeep and RC trail-riding/ rock-crawling shortly after the wedding!

Thanks, man!

[fyrstormer]

Yep, if there's one thing Traxxas consistently gets wrong, it's using cheap steering servos. (then again, if they used really good steering servos, careless basher noobs would break the steering links instead, so I guess there's no winning.) Even the "upgraded" servo included with the TRX-4 is garbage compared to the Hitec HS-7955TG servos I use on all my trucks. When I get a new Traxxas vehicle I pull out the steering servo immediately and sell it on eBay for a few bucks. The HS-7955TG on my Wraith is the oldest one I own (four years old), and it's been completely underwater several times and been subjected to hard hits during "flying dismounts" off rocks with no servo-saver, and it still works fine. I haven't even needed to re-grease the gears. The worst thing that ever happened was, it temporarily shorted-out when a drop of water got inside, and after drying it out and coating the circuit board with nail polish, it never happened again.