Public perception of Teams.

[discgolferlee]

This whole thread is worthless and all it does is drum up drama and make people pissed. It should be removed from here by moderators

[CRSMacgyver]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I have to agree with Slobin, the character of the people on the Team really determine the character of the Team.

A good team is one you can ask questions to and get non-biased answers. A good team is drivers who are willing to lend ideas and advice to others.

A good team driver is one who believes in the parts hes using and doesnt use the parts because they're free or discounted.

Well put.

I enjoy being part of the teams I work with. Whether it be product development or product testing, I like to think that my input/work helps bring superior products to the crawling community. Whether it is testing the durabilty of a new carbon fiber chassis..... or helping to develop a new foam product like the tuning disks you see today, it all helps further the sport.

As a Team Driver I always try to help with setup/truck info for the trucks and parts I am familiar with. I cannot help everyone due to the fact that some combinations will definitely react differently but I always try if I can. Free flow of information is somethign that makes this community better than most of the RC groups.

As JRH said, product testing/development should be our main focus. Helping crawlers that come to ask us questions should be a close second along with helping to be solid representatives for companies while we are at events.

I get to "do work" with a great group of guys at all the events I travel to. That team atmosphere is one of the things I love about this sport.

[Szczerba]

Teams are good for the sport. As mentioned, lots of new ideas come from a competitive group of guys/gals working together.

I think most people resent the fact that they are not on a team and that creates the animosity. It's the classic case of the "have's" and "have nots"

[Almighty Malach]

I don't like seeing 5-10 guys wearing the same team shirts crowding a course telling the driver exactly where to put his tires at every gate. I've seen this at every big comp I've been to, and its bullshit.

[killswitch]

Originally Posted by Almighty Malach

I don't like seeing 5-10 guys wearing the same team shirts crowding a course telling the driver exactly where to put his tires at every gate. I've seen this at every big comp I've been to, and its bullshit.

I dont get to attend any of the big comps, but I do check out a lot of videos and it has become a big issue. I couldnt agree more. The "appointed" spotter rule needs to be enforced.

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by ittybitty

I know this isn't the main topic here...but this call is correct on the judges part. A touch is only called if it contacts the driver...according to the USRCCA rules.

Originally Posted by ittybitty

Right...but I took his comment about seeing multiple spotters and seeing one get hit...not that it was a designated spotter.

To my knowledge all the people AROUND the course fall into 4 catagories

Driver, Judge, Spotter, or Spectator!

Rules 5.4 & 5.6 give the Judge the power to control all of them. If they don't integrity, knowledge, or ca hones to enforce them then its not the teams or rules fault



5.4 – Judges are responsible for keeping spectators at a safe distance from the course to avoid spectator interference.

5.6 – Spotters (Optional) If spotters are permitted by event organizers drivers are responsible for identifying the
driver’s spotter. Only designated spotters shall be allowed on course with the driver and judges. All penalties committed by the spotter shall count towards the driver’s total score. (i.e. touches, stepping on gates, course modification, etc.)

[aaugman]

A lot of the time having all those spotters is like pre running the course, If the guy tells you exactly where to go and you know what you truck is going to do then that's a huge advantage over the guy who doesn't have a spotter.

With that said, there is no reason why you cant ask someone to be your spotter if you don't have one.


Where i have seen a small issue with the "team" is that at the comp they all travel together and so while one course has no drivers on it there is another course with 10 drivers and the whole day takes hrs longer because the "team" wants to all drive together.

So you have 100 guys waiting on 10 guys and the comps take 3 hrs longer because of it.

While crawling is still an individual driver competition i ultimately see no issues. If you want the help of others on a course then you should use it, If you get free stuff for being on a team, then good you for you.

If comps turned into team events then it would be a problem, Right now we have a few guys that are at the top all the time, if we had teams then they would all get together and truly make it suck for everyone else that wasn't at their level.

[skid plate]

We'll get back to ya...................








































































































JC

[sococrawler]

Originally Posted by discgolferlee

This whole thread is worthless and all it does is drum up drama and make people pissed. It should be removed from here by moderators

really is that all you can say? This thread was produced by a MFG of the products 80% of us use, he also has a team, and would like to either pump up his team or tune them down, so think about what this thread is for ! yes you will have some guy's/gal's who bring drama to the table,pass it on by and read what other's have to input!

Originally Posted by aaugman

A lot of the time having all those spotters is like pre running the course, If the guy tells you exactly where to go and you know what you truck is going to do then that's a huge advantage over the guy who doesn't have a spotter.

With that said, there is no reason why you cant ask someone to be your spotter if you don't have one.


Where i have seen a small issue with the "team" is that at the comp they all travel together and so while one course has no drivers on it there is another course with 10 drivers and the whole day takes hrs longer because the "team" wants to all drive together.

So you have 100 guys waiting on 10 guys and the comps take 3 hrs longer because of it.

While crawling is still an individual driver competition i ultimately see no issues. If you want the help of others on a course then you should use it, If you get free stuff for being on a team, then good you for you.

i myself have seen what a "Teams" manager will tell his driver's to do while they are on course, and have even seen him do the same thing he told his "driver's", no integrity in my book!
when a team gang's up on a course the judge should have the balls to say one spotter,one driver. if that judge cannot do this like john said, then that's not a driver's fault, now the fact that yes it does take forever for the puppet master to get his puppet's through a course before he goes and makes a perfect run, yes that's crap, we have tried to mitigate this at a local level, but after the sacrificial lambs ran their first course then the'yre all back together. sorry but until someone runs a "defined" specific course designation comp, well we have to deal with it!


on another note, i have rarely "ran" with my team or my team manager at 90% of the comps we have attended together, we just drive better spread out plus at any point in time you will see our "team" shirts on each course! not all on one!

sorry to make it long but that's the freedom of a forum!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TexasSP]

Wow, seems like some areas have drama I have yet to see locally. Glad I haven't because I wouldn't participate.

I don't care about people standing all around as long as it's not in the middle of the way. I also don't care about spotters because you can listen or not.

I do this for fun, don't care if I finish first or last. Don't care if my truck breaks when I am doing well. Just want to relax and enjoy. If the local scene around me started getting all hardcore I would just play somewhere else. Luckily it isn't. Some guys take it more seriously than others and for their own reasons, however, I have yet to see how it interferes with anyone else.

Good luck to all of you facing these issues.

I figure that in the end if you suck at driving no number of people telling you what to do will help.

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by sococrawler

i myself have seen what a "Teams" manager will tell his driver's to do while they are on course, and have even seen him do the same thing he told his "driver's", no integrity in my book!

....... puppet master to get his puppet's through a course before he goes and makes a perfect run, yes that's crap, we have tried to mitigate this at a local level, but after the sacrificial lambs ran their first course....

You definitely are not talking about me then...cause my perfect runs rarely occur except for in my dreams

I am usaully they one showing everyone including my team mates what NOT to do. (I have video and score sheets to prove it)

I also get pulled away from the action alot with RULES questions, so I usually end up running about half my courses by myself. My "spotter" is usually someone standing around close by. My instructions to them...."don't give me complicated instructions....just keep me moving so I don't waste time."

And for the record I will help spot anyone anytime just ask.

I also I have been known to "SPOT" when it wasn't WANTED.....if it bothers you just tell me to quite down.....I won't be offended

NOTE: Alot of times the guys you see "GROUP" up spend 10-15 hours in car traveling across country, staying cheap hotels 4 to a room, and eating crappy food together all weekend. Do you think it possible they might also want to just WATCH each others runs? It happens all the time, and NOT just by guys wearing the same T-Shirt.....you just notice it more when they do it.

[sococrawler]

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

You definitely are not talking about me then...cause my perfect runs rarely occur except for in my dreams
"OH MY"

I am usaully they one showing everyone including my team mates what NOT to do. (I have video and score sheets to prove it)

"OH MY " Again

I also get pulled away from the action alot with RULES questions, so I usually end up running about half my courses by myself. My "spotter" is usually someone standing around close by. My instructions to them...."don't give me complicated instructions....just keep me moving so I don't waste time."

Perfectly put!

And for the record I will help spot anyone anytime just ask.



I also I have been known to "SPOT" when it wasn't WANTED.....if it bothers you just tell me to quite down.....I won't be offended

GUILTY as Charged as well !!!!!!!

NOTE: Alot of times the guys you see "GROUP" up spend 10-15 hours in car traveling across country, staying cheap hotels 4 to a room, and eating crappy food together all weekend. Do you think it possible they might also want to just WATCH each others runs? It happens all the time, and NOT just by guys wearing the same T-Shirt.....you just notice it more when they do it.

I have spent 12-15 hrs over 2300 miles back to back, locked in a cab of a truck with parker his headlamp and an xr10 in a cookie sheet being built in the middle of the night, iron mannin a comp weekend, hell no i did'nt watch him run!

[EddieO]

Coming from a racing background and at one time fielding one of the bigger teams, I can tell you there are some misconceptions about it in the crawling arena.

First and foremost, Teams are built in racing for product promotion......that's the #1 reason they exist. Part of this product promotion is helping others, but the #1 goal is winning......what wins on sunday, sells on monday....

Typically teams in racing work together on setups at races, with each racer trying a certain thing to see if it works.....they fine tune based off stuff they find that works.

Product testing is really a fairly small after thought for most teams......I've know racers who have gone entire careers without ever really testing anything. Sure, they are given unreleased stuff, but that stuff is far beyond the testing phase and is basically preproduction. They are running it because its faster.....not because the company wants feedback. Most of the large companies like Losi, AE, etc have in house testers and a few local guys who test the prototypes.....

I keep my tester guys local most of the time, too much work sending stuff all over and then getting lousy feedback over email....I love EeePee though, so I sent him an Axle Buster to test.....

As for the whole spotting thing, look at this way....at least you don't have to deal with Team Driving....nothing better than getting taken out in the main so another guys teammate can hit the podium.

Later EddieO

[EeePee]

Originally Posted by EddieO

I love EeePee though

Quoted.

I remember when it was just you and your truck, being heckled at and having a great time while doing so, a little later you'd see a buddy spot his buddy to a better run and that's cool, then it went to watching four or five guys spot a driver through a course to a really good run. I didn't or don't care for that. Seems like anyone with good control of their ride can get a really good score with that much help. But if that's where we're at these days, then fine. Cookie cutter trucks and being told exactly how to run a course... not fun to me.

Heck, I drive a Losi, so call me a cookie cutter truck haver. At least it ain't a cookie cutter cheater truck.

[Cave Dave]

Originally Posted by EeePee

I remember when it was just you and your truck, being heckled at and having a great time while doing so,

Awwww....back when comp crawling was FUN.
My buddy Tanis told me at a comp once "when crawling gets like racing I'm getting out" About a year and a half ago it got that way for me....

[1qwkfox]

I haven't really been to any crawler events ,but have been to 1/8th scale/truggy races.

IMO it is all about how the team is run , while most of them are very down to earth it only takes that one person to give people a bad taste.. To me it is all about how the team handle's themselves an the situations should one arise.

An they need to remember that everyone has to start somewhere.

[RcBro]

Kinda a open ended question to start with but looks like every angle has been touched, even the dirty side

As a product maker, I can tell you first hand, my first rule that everyone must follow who drives for me is keeping a good attitude. I've raced on-road, off-road, carpet, dirt, street, oval. The guy that crys when his car hits the wall always ruins the event. I personally won't stand it. I make sure my drivers know this. If it happens and it's deserves a warning, then I say "hey cool your jets" but I don't hesitate to drop them either. This includes foul language because your pissed etc... Its just stupid.

Not wanting to help others is extremely annoying as well. Some people just seem unapproachable and are unwilling to help. Your in this hobby to compete, why not make your competition better to make you better. If your compeition drives like crap, I guarantee once you go to a big event, your scores will look like it too. Help when you can, or when asked.

As for spotters since it seems heated. At least at the comps I attend there will be 4-5 guys watching one guy. I don't think either of them plans on spotting the guy, they just want to watch him drive, throwing suggestions out here and there isn't bad. But if it gets bad, I agree, the judge should warn the spectators. At larger events maybe the one designated spotter could be a good thing.

I've also seen time and time again with the good drivers, they don't need a spotter to win! They can judge all day and only see one course, and ace the other 3 with top scores without anyone making suggestions. Even if someone is saying go here, go there, power through, bump this. Doesn't mean there not already thinking it, or aren't going to do it.

Just like any racing event, if you follow the same line as the other guy, your not going to win.

[MnRockCrawler]

I didnt even think of the spotter issue. I could see how that could be very annoying, but I really dont see how it works as a advantage. I mean if a person sits back and is taking notes on the layout and how other trucks are doing in certain spots (Like they should be), it shouldnt even be a issue. But yeah, having 4-5 guys surrounding a crawler while competing is kinda ridiculous.

[demonoid369]

can I be part of a team?

[Narly1]

Originally Posted by demonoid369

can I be part of a team?

If you have to ask, no you can't.

Well, at least if it's a serious team.

You don't find teams, they find you.

Narly1