Public perception of Teams.

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Go Team Go.

[Rock Logic]

Originally Posted by JOYSTICK

it's simple there's a judge a driver and a course. get it done. spotting is for practice not comp time.

Originally Posted by KBrog

You got it..... Not that I am, but I believe that if you are a good driver, you dont need to watch everyone else run a course in order to do well on that course. Just run, have fun, and quit trying to cheat by watching everyone else. A team player is a stand up guy or gal who plays by the rules, and doesnt need to see what everyone else does in order to be on top. A team should help with truck setup, its up to the driver to put it to the ground.

how is spotting for practice? and how is watching cheating? so what your saying is we all need to sit in a tent as they call us one by one to run courses so no one can see the person run! or should we all were blind folds while standing in line so we cant see what the driver is doing on course. just some insight to your thinking whould be cool

[renoirbud]

Originally Posted by Harvo

About teams... I have not often seen a team at a comp help anyone on course or in the pits except for the other people on the team. If I have ever had questions about a team's product, they usually answer though.

I am sorry that this is the perception, however many team drivers try to help as much as they can.

At the Turkey Crawl I helped Delmonte with a fastener, at Motorama I rebuilt a Supers suspension set up for a kid from Allen Town, at Red Rocks I spotted for someone who I have never seen before because he asked for help.

I have seen plenty of guys that belong to teams bend over backwards to help anyone who is willing to accept the help.

[KBrog]

Originally Posted by falloout

how is spotting for practice? and how is watching cheating? so what your saying is we all need to sit in a tent as they call us one by one to run courses so no one can see the person run! or should we all were blind folds while standing in line so we cant see what the driver is doing on course. just some insight to your thinking whould be cool

I cant answer your first question, and Im not going to assume what someone else is thinking. I can answer how I think watching is cheating. Its on the extream opposite end of your tent idea. It's where 10 or so people crowd around a course so much that a spectator cant even see anything but someones back side. Or when you are a spectator, and you find a nice spot (at a safe distance as to not interfere with the driver) to watch the action and as the rig gets close to coming around where you are and think "yeah, this is cool", and then that crowd jumps in front of you becouse they are trying to see what line the driver took so they can gain an advantage when they run it. In my book, that is cheating, and unsportsman like of a team driver. I hope that helps.

[joesbruiser]

Originally Posted by Harvo

About teams... I have not often seen a team at a comp help anyone on course or in the pits except for the other people on the team. If I have ever had questions about a team's product, they usually answer though.

I don't really expect more than that from a product's driving team. They are there to do well too. They have better things to do than hold my hand.

More support at an event would be outstanding though... such as at some mountain bike races. If you are running a Rock-Shox fork (an example), and you need to work on it, you can go to their tent and use their tools and supplies to get fixed up. You might even get some advice from their mechanic. I would like to see chassis makers or major crawler parts suppliers provide that service That would be what I would consider GREAT support from vendors for major events.

About spotters... I have a couple of buddies I run with at comps. One of them spots for me and I for him. We usually keep our mouths shut, but having a spotter is critical when you have 10-14 gates to finish in 4-5 minutes, and they are spread all over. You really need someone showing you where the next gate is.

I have been out of the picture for a bit handling some family issues.Harvo I am not real sure where you have been looking but I know lots of Team guys help out allot and all the way around.
I know personally I will spot for anyone or discuss a course with anyone.I do not hesitate for a second to give setup advise,and have even handed someone complete sets of wheels and tires to run for the comp.

Originally Posted by falloout

how is spotting for practice? and how is watching cheating? so what your saying is we all need to sit in a tent as they call us one by one to run courses so no one can see the person run! or should we all were blind folds while standing in line so we cant see what the driver is doing on course. just some insight to your thinking whould be cool

I think some people do believe something like this would help there final results but as you and I both know the same people that come in the top 15 at all major comps will still be in the top no matter what.

Originally Posted by KBrog

I cant answer your first question, and Im not going to assume what someone else is thinking. I can answer how I think watching is cheating. Its on the extream opposite end of your tent idea. It's where 10 or so people crowd around a course so much that a spectator cant even see anything but someones back side. Or when you are a spectator, and you find a nice spot (at a safe distance as to not interfere with the driver) to watch the action and as the rig gets close to coming around where you are and think "yeah, this is cool", and then that crowd jumps in front of you becouse they are trying to see what line the driver took so they can gain an advantage when they run it. In my book, that is cheating, and unsportsman like of a team driver. I hope that helps.

I do not care what someone watches take place on a course when its the actual drivers turn he has to DRIVE those lines himself and hope his setup is correct to pull them off.
I have competed all over the country with Austin Dunn we are team mates on several different teams.I have watched him drive lines in practice and on course that I could not pull no matter what.Its just not as easy as if you watch you can do it.

[jason]

Originally Posted by binaryterror

It doesn't matter if JOYSTICK reads the rules it clearly mentions a spotter is allowed, but point caused by the Spotter (touching truck, or stepping on a gate) is still assessed to the Driver.

Obviously pick a spotter you trust.

The rules mention that spotters are optional, and drivers are allowed to have 1 spotter if any. With many teams having 4-5 guys on one course at the same time all running around in the judges way don't be surprised to see courses taped off with boundaries and only the judge, and driver allowed inside the boundary.

When it gets to the point that the judge can't properly do his job because of all the spotters something needs to be done.

[Rockshow]

Thanks John for starting this thread, It has brought to light some interesting perceptions and perception is reality! Being part of a Team and having a Team, I seem to have a different perception of a what we do as a Team. It is good to hear open opinions from non Team drivers in order to fine tune things that are in the public's eye. I could go on and on to explain or defend the teams actions or benefits but I believe reading what you drivers, team or no team think is an important step in moving forward as a hobby. Just as good products evolve, so will good teams. Thank you for everyones input.

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Originally Posted by joesbruiser

I have been out of the picture for a bit handling some family issues.Harvo I am not real sure where you have been looking but I know lots of Team guys help out allot and all the way around.
I know personally I will spot for anyone or discuss a course with anyone.I do not hesitate for a second to give setup advise,and have even handed someone complete sets of wheels and tires to run for the comp.


I think some people do believe something like this would help there final results but as you and I both know the same people that come in the top 15 at all major comps will still be in the top no matter what.


I do not care what someone watches take place on a course when its the actual drivers turn he has to DRIVE those lines himself and hope his setup is correct to pull them off.
I have competed all over the country with Austin Dunn we are team mates on several different teams.I have watched him drive lines in practice and on course that I could not pull no matter what.Its just not as easy as if you watch you can do it.

All this make you the Champion that you are. 1 of my many hero's in this sport.

[Greatscott]

Fun with expensive toys, that is what this hobby is all about...

Most of the team drivers I have seen are just as willing to give spotting and setup tips to non-team members and seem to be more about the promotion of the hobby than promoting an elitist attitude. This is just what I seen going to local comps in the SoCal area, I'm guessing when you get to the Nationals and Worlds the attitude changes.

One thing I have seen from sponsored/team drivers that does annoys me when they design courses... Water... If our electronics were more water resistant from the factory it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but at times it seems like it is used as a way to seperate the budget drivers from the team/sponsored drivers. Just my opinion...

Originally Posted by TexasSP

I do this for fun, don't care if I finish first or last. Don't care if my truck breaks when I am doing well.

Are you mad?!? If I don't finish last I am thrilled, but breakage is never fun...

[punkfan]

I have only been comping for about a year, and I have been to 2 "large" events. Both times i found the Team drivers to be pretty cool. Jake has given me parts for my losi, and brought replacements for stuff that was not right. Most of the guys I spoke with were more than willing to help, or let me look at their rig/ give set-up advise. There are always a few who are not the best reps, but I think that happens anywhere. As for the spotter issue i dont think it is an issue. Teams run together, because they are friends and friends like to hang together thats why they are friends right.

[SDS Customz]

Originally Posted by Harvo

About teams... I have not often seen a team at a comp help anyone on course or in the pits except for the other people on the team. If I have ever had questions about a team's product, they usually answer though.

I don't really expect more than that from a product's driving team. They are there to do well too. They have better things to do than hold my hand.

More support at an event would be outstanding though... such as at some mountain bike races. If you are running a Rock-Shox fork (an example), and you need to work on it, you can go to their tent and use their tools and supplies to get fixed up. You might even get some advice from their mechanic. I would like to see chassis makers or major crawler parts suppliers provide that service That would be what I would consider GREAT support from vendors for major events.

About spotters... I have a couple of buddies I run with at comps. One of them spots for me and I for him. We usually keep our mouths shut, but having a spotter is critical when you have 10-14 gates to finish in 4-5 minutes, and they are spread all over. You really need someone showing you where the next gate is.

For most of the Team guys that I hang with, we only see each other at big events. So alot of times we Hang and move around together catching up and we enjoy each others company. So we dont nessecarily hang at a tent if you will. I can tell you that anyone on any othe teams that im affiliated with(as long as they werent already involved in something) would drop most general conversations and help with anything possible if anyone walks up and asks. Maybe this isnt as inviting as having us sitting in a tent with a vendors banner flying, though its just kinda the nature of this sport I believe.

[TexasSP]

Originally Posted by Greatscott

Are you mad?!? If I don't finish last I am thrilled, but breakage is never fun...

So are you one of those guys that throws a fit when the truck breaks in the middle of the course? Maybe you are the one that's mad?

It's a freaking hobby, not brain surgery.

Luckily the locals at the comps in Houston aren't all hard core but still competitive. It also is not clickish, so I don't see the issues some are talking about. I like the group because everyone is different, but everyone is laid back and helps each other. We have fun.

The day the hobby starts getting to me is the day I need a new hobby.

Fact is, you will break parts period. If you can't handle that I feel sorry for you. It can be mildly irritating but past that I don't care. I have enjoyed every comp I have gone to no matter the outcome.

Originally Posted by SDS Customz

For most of the Team guys that I hang with, we only see each other at big events. So alot of times we Hang and move around together catching up and we enjoy each others company. So we dont nessecarily hang at a tent if you will. I can tell you that anyone on any othe teams that im affiliated with(as long as they werent already involved in something) would drop most general conversations and help with anything possible if anyone walks up and asks. Maybe this isnt as inviting as having us sitting in a tent with a vendors banner flying, though its just kinda the nature of this sport I believe.

To me what you are talking about is what I saw the first time out. Just a bunch of guys conversating and having fun. To me that type deal is much more approachable and laid back than some one sitting in a tent with a vendor banner flying. I much more likely to jump into a conversation with a bunch of guys sitting back shooting the bull.

[Greatscott]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

So are you one of those guys that throws a fit when the truck breaks in the middle of the course? Maybe you are the one that's mad?

It's a freaking hobby, not brain surgery.

Man, you took this entirely the wrong way...

[Mr Glassman]

Originally Posted by jason

When it gets to the point that the judge can't properly do his job because of all the spotters something needs to be done.

Jackpot

[ROWDY RACING]

Originally Posted by jason

The rules mention that spotters are optional, and drivers are allowed to have 1 spotter if any. With many teams having 4-5 guys on one course at the same time all running around in the judges way don't be surprised to see courses taped off with boundaries and only the judge, and driver allowed inside the boundary.

When it gets to the point that the judge can't properly do his job because of all the spotters something needs to be done.

X2, one of the best posts in this thread.

[KBrog]

Originally Posted by Greatscott

Man, you took this entirely the wrong way...

I know talk about hitting out in left field. LOL. GO LONG MAN!!!! GO LONG......

[TexasSP]

Originally Posted by Greatscott

Man, you took this entirely the wrong way...

It was a much more broad statement not so much focusing on you just using the post to start my point.

Everyone knows the guys I am talking about.

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

It was a much more broad statement not so much focusing on you just using the post to start my point.

Everyone knows the guys I am talking about.

Well your a Texan, thats a click right there.

[CD13]

joesbruiser,Its good to see ya on the board, I missed ya.
As for Teams, They have always been helpful to me and I have seen them together on 1 course but never in the way, Maybe 1 spotting and the rest standing back and talking about their plans or one thats already ran telling his opinion. Everyone that has a product to sell, needs someone to test it.

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by KBrog

.....to watch the action and as the rig gets close to coming around where you are and think "yeah, this is cool", and then that crowd jumps in front of you becouse they are trying to see what line the driver took so they can gain an advantage when they run it. In my book, that is cheating, and unsportsman like of a team driver. I hope that helps.

They jump in front of you to see what your trying to see, OR they jump in front of you to INTENTIONALLY block your view?

Not that either is cheating, but intentionally blocking your view is kinda of a crappy thing to do.

99.9% the time I see ALL the drivers around jockeying for position to get the best view.

I am rarely to be able find a single spot in which you can stand and survey and entire course....with or without other drivers around...Team or NO-Team.

The best example I can think of is Austin Dunn....he is on almost every MAJOR Team but he runs alone most of the time. People will follow him around....asking him advice or just watching him drive.....and the crowd will follow him around the course.....not only will you get your view blocked, but you will get pushed, toes stepped on, and pictures ruined. Thats just the way that it is....its not cheating

IMO for you to imply its some sort of cheating is waaaaaay off base.