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Thread: MMP Start Power on High for crawlers?

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Old 09-24-2011, 04:24 PM   #1
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Default MMP Start Power on High for crawlers?

Just wondering If I should run start power on high in my Ax10, mmp, 18.5 Novak brushless on 3s 35c 1600mah lipo, bec, jr hv8711@7.4v.

Is anyone else doing this? Seems like it might make sence for a crawler. I have next to no cog, just slight under heavy bind/load. I am running sensored.

Anyone run any low rpm cheat timing?

My setup runs amazing, just wondering about a few things.

See it in action here: Check out this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PojVw...e_gdata_player
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Old 09-24-2011, 08:44 PM   #2
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with the mmp esc and crawlers it works better to set the start power to high and some cheat timing in the upper rpms would be better for the motor
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Old 09-25-2011, 05:20 AM   #3
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I would run the start power on high and run it on Smartsense. Smartsense is maybe a tad slower in thetop end,since you can't use the cheat timing, but it's more efficient which equals a cooler motor and longer run times.
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Old 09-25-2011, 06:16 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by federally View Post
I would run the start power on high and run it on Smartsense. Smartsense is maybe a tad slower in thetop end,since you can't use the cheat timing, but it's more efficient which equals a cooler motor and longer run times.
You really seem to know your stuff about this.. Hoping you cam answer a question for me..
I'm running a MMP with a Novak 18.5 Crawler sensored motor. Just wondering what the max timing should be.. My mechanical timing came set at 30* out of the box.. Should I set it lower and use the programmer to set it for higher rpms..
This is my first experience with sensored brushless and I'm scared to fry it ..


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Old 09-25-2011, 10:51 AM   #5
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if this were my personal system i would leave the motor set close to factory timing and have the mamba add timing in the higher rpms so the excess heat caused by the extra timing wont be there whenever you are crawling and only there when you use your top wheel speed. and the smart sense is more efficient but you will likely not notice much or anything at all in performance or heat in an ax10 so i would just keep it on sensored and use cheat mode.
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madkawi650 View Post
You really seem to know your stuff about this.. Hoping you cam answer a question for me..
I'm running a MMP with a Novak 18.5 Crawler sensored motor. Just wondering what the max timing should be.. My mechanical timing came set at 30* out of the box.. Should I set it lower and use the programmer to set it for higher rpms..
This is my first experience with sensored brushless and I'm scared to fry it ..


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Yeah if the motor came with mechanical timing set I would leave that be and fine tune using the Esc's settings. There is no defined "max" timing advance and you won't fry it. Just make sure you have a reliable IR temp gun and don't let the motor get too hot, best is to keep it around 150. Advantage to crawlers is as long as you're using an appropriate motor for your truck you're not really gonna be heating it up so you can push it with timing to get more out of the motor.

So you can be free to experiment with timing advances as long as you are careful not to cook the motor.
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:08 PM   #7
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If you're worried about heat, turn the motor endbell timing down to 5-10 degrees. Then add timing with the esc at upper rpm's.
If you run 30 degrees endbell timing, it's going to see the 30 all the time. Making extra heat all the time.
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:48 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by skid View Post
If you're worried about heat, turn the motor endbell timing down to 5-10 degrees. Then add timing with the esc at upper rpm's.
If you run 30 degrees endbell timing, it's going to see the 30 all the time. Making extra heat all the time.
This is true but as long as you're not getting above 150F on the motor can there isn't any harm in the heat. Just means you're getting more performance out of the motor.
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Old 09-25-2011, 05:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by federally View Post
This is true but as long as you're not getting above 150F on the motor can there isn't any harm in the heat. Just means you're getting more performance out of the motor.
More power? Yes, but also less effeciency. Less timing down low will also give better low speed control.
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Old 09-25-2011, 05:39 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by skid View Post
More power? Yes, but also less effeciency. Less timing down low will also give better low speed control.
Yeah it's not that simple. Timing down doesn't always increase the efficiency or cool the motor, brushless motors need some timing advance to run well and if you retard the timing too much it might not run as well. So I would assume the motor came from Novak with that much timing for a reason and retarding it a lot might not necessarily work out. However it doesn't hurt to try.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:16 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by federally View Post
Yeah it's not that simple. Timing down doesn't always increase the efficiency or cool the motor, brushless motors need some timing advance to run well and if you retard the timing too much it might not run as well. So I would assume the motor came from Novak with that much timing for a reason and retarding it a lot might not necessarily work out. However it doesn't hurt to try.
If you want to nit pick....
10 degrees timing will draw less amps than 30. Agree? Less amps equal less energy transfered into heat. I said low timing down low. Not 0 but 5-10. A few people with experience motor building and testing have said that is a good area where the motor starts well and is efficient at slow speeds. And then add esc timing of 20-25 degrees on top of that in upper rpms.

As far as coming set from Novak, they could send them out with 30 because the customers will have a faster motor that works with other brand controller that may not have timing advance programmible.
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:05 PM   #12
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Cool guys I'll put the start power on high, just switching from 2 to 3s gave me alot better power and about 2mph extra. My buddy and I did a drag race, both ax10's and I smoked him!

I was thinking of using timing to increase torque, not really for speed. I'll play around with it! I mostly just run on rocks so top speed isn't important for me.

Check out my walk around video. Any questions just ask.


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Old 09-27-2011, 03:15 PM   #13
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Does anyone know the proper rotation of a motor.. I mean is it clockwise or counter clockwise as viewed looking straight in at the output shaft.. ?
I'm only asking cause I'm concerned about timing and how it affects a motor if you have to reverse your motor direction for a flipped tranny.


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Old 09-27-2011, 04:51 PM   #14
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Now I'm pretty sure the correct rotation is in the same direction that you would turn the end bell to increase timing.
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Old 09-28-2011, 06:15 AM   #15
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Well holy crap.. I hooked my 18.5 Novak/ MMP combo up to my laptop with my castle link.. I switched the motor direction so I didnt have to have my TX on Reverse throttle. I switched to "CHEAT" mode and added 6 of timing advance to the 30 Novak says is the Neutral setting for their motor.. did some other tweaks like added crawler drag break. bla bla... Stuck in a 2S lipo and hit the throttle.. Yeeee Haaaaa. this thing flew faster than on 3S before the tweaks. Went so fast out of the Garage I panicked and let off the throttle. Bad move..Drag brake.... I flip right over on my roof.. Gotta do some more brake tweaking..

My point is.. I was blown away by what a few tweaks in the right direction can do to this Novak 18.5 Balistic Cralwer motor with MMP can do. Sensored is so cool.
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