10-07-2011, 08:36 PM | #41 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Having fun again...
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Here is the example that best suits CTBM's theory..... 1# weight under a slinky on an incline, in any direction. And, A 1# weight on top of a slinky in the same circumstance. What will go over first. |
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10-07-2011, 08:37 PM | #42 |
Newbie Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: nj
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Actually a 20lbs scx10 and a 1lbs scx10 would fall at the same pace because the only thing that mater is the aero dynamics, so if they have the same aeros then the will fall the same.
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10-07-2011, 08:39 PM | #43 | |
Suck it up! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Arkansas
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That's center of gravity, and I don't think that's where he's going. I believe he's wanting to test the upper limits of weight, though obviously he's going to keep it as low as possible and place it strategically. Otherwise he'd duct tape a 20lb barbell to the roof and hit the rocks and this thread would be over. | |
10-07-2011, 08:42 PM | #44 |
Suck it up! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Arkansas
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10-07-2011, 08:50 PM | #45 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Having fun again...
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Your right Why don't you all just take a little trip back in the ol' time machine to when every one was running 22-3300 mah batteries in the belly and a dig switch plate. It has all been done already and the fact is we have found that the more you remove from the sprung side of things the better the trucks have started performing. Like I stated earlier there is a reason every one has been putting weight in or around the wheels. Last edited by krawlfreak; 10-07-2011 at 08:59 PM. | |
10-07-2011, 09:17 PM | #46 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Rancho Relaxo. California. USA. Earth.
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The weight down low is always a good thing and have been considering adding weight. Good thread guys, lots of ideas being thrown and considered. | |
10-07-2011, 10:14 PM | #47 | ||
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Its not always about how much weight you have, but where you put it. Quote:
Why do 1:1's deflate their tires when they do serious offroading? To gain more grip by expanding the contact patch. | ||
10-07-2011, 10:29 PM | #48 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Rancho Relaxo. California. USA. Earth.
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10-07-2011, 10:37 PM | #49 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Having fun again...
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10-07-2011, 11:17 PM | #50 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: May 2011 Location: Lost in Oregon
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Man, all I know is the more weight I add the better my mantis is...it still hops, and I'd like that to stop...I never thought of adding weight to the chassis itself, but I'm going to change that....not so comfortable with all the added weight to the wheels and rotating mass...I think it's a great idea Chris....could be that you could take all the weight of the wheels, add it to the chassis by half, and still achieve the same results....just by COG
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10-07-2011, 11:33 PM | #51 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Having fun again...
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And why is every one so worried about rotating mass with the upgrade products we have these days. Is it so you can jump the one gate of 70 at a comp? How many 300's or xr cvd's have been broken by rotating mass. I know some.parts have been broken but that is more than likely from something other that weight. And no you can't take all the weight out of the wheels and add it to the chassis and get the same result. I am really trying to help you guys .... | |
10-08-2011, 12:14 AM | #52 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: May 2011 Location: Lost in Oregon
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Really, always hop ? I hope you're wrong...as for the rest, I'm still trying stuff. Just seemed to make sense...the only thing that bothers me is the height of the mantis chassis to begin with....a bit high. I'll try it nonetheless ....thanks for the input Krawlfreak |
10-08-2011, 10:02 AM | #53 | |
Rock Crawler Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Where the foams are always wet
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Being able to have a light truck (under 5lbs) that can drive predictably would be awesome over here in Oregon. But the lighter you go with the truck, its seems like every change you make to the the truck is a "give/take". It's not like any change you make to the suspension, tires, balance, gives a 100% improvement all around. Unless your switching your tires from rock lizards to boss claws of course ... TOM Last edited by sourdojack; 10-08-2011 at 10:06 AM. | |
10-08-2011, 10:11 PM | #54 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: May 2011 Location: Lost in Oregon
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I guess I'd like to try a "slick rock" scenario , I'm sure there would be some difference. I tend to crawl in high traction settings. A trip to the big O could be in my agenda soon, get some slippery experience . I really strive to be a well rounded crawler
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10-08-2011, 10:36 PM | #55 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Rancho Relaxo. California. USA. Earth.
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10-10-2011, 02:13 AM | #56 |
no talent hack Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Redwood City
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10-10-2011, 04:53 AM | #57 |
Quarry Creeper Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States
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Chris I think that a plate hanging off of the rear with weights will give too much traction in the rear thus flipping the rig. I think we need a heavy front maybe heavy links in the front. The rear needs enough weight so it doesnt hop but not so much that it flips the truck. maybe different tire combos in the front/rear. A tire in the rear that gets better traction with less weight and a tire in the front that does well with more weight. Maybe rover in the front and boss claw in the rear. Just an idea
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10-11-2011, 09:27 PM | #58 |
Rock Crawler Join Date: May 2011 Location: SoCal
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Engineering stuff here. Don't read if easily bored. Very likely best climbing will come from nearly equal weights on all four tires. This because tire efficiency, grip vs normal force (force straight into the surface) is slightly non-linear and shifting weight from one tire to another hurts the now heavier tire just slightly more than it helps the now lighter tire. Bottom line -- keep all four tires equally weighted. That's very hard to do when on a steep climb. Weight will naturally transfer from the front tires to the rear tires unless the CG is at ground level (ain't happinin'). That's why we run front-heavy rigs, to give the front tires a head start. Even so at a very steep angle, those heavy fronts start coming off the ground proving there's no weight on them. So where do you add weight to improve climbing? Not in the chassis. All of that weight will transfer to the rear tires. Best added weight will be nearest the ground and very far forward. Gee...kinda like knuckle or front wheel weights. But we knew that all along, right? Even without the science. A little keg of solid tungsten cantilevered in front of the axle just above the ground would make for a great climber. Not so good on approach angle tho. |
10-12-2011, 12:11 PM | #59 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Milwaukie OR
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I think it's kind of funny how some of you are talking to me like I am a noob even though I have been around since 06'. Perhaps I am not making myself clear as to the goal here. Take a losi or axial ax10. They cant pull some of the crazy lines an MOA can by nature. But they can still drive really well, and handle nicely. My sportsman was such a fun truck to drive, and I was able to out drive many MOA trucks with it... with no dig, and only about 5oz on the front. Yhe tranny, motor, and electronics in the belly all weighed about 10oz. So in this case, I had MUCH less axle weight, and much more chassis weight. Now does that mean that it will drive better than an MOA? No. But I was able to do 95% of the lines anyone locally could do. I am not saying that some sprung weight will not in some fashion effect the truck negatively. The CG will suffer some, and it will transfer weight to the rear tires more. But I truly believe that these draw backs aren't enough to really notice a huge difference. My sportsman always felt more planted than any MOA I have driven. I have even out drove people with very little sprung weight, when I had the battery and electronics in the belly. Tanis has kicked our asses for years with anything from a honcho, to a spare parts axial, to a nice axial with a DNA dig. So does some sprung weight really effect someone just being a good driver? I am not claiming that I am that guy. But that some chassis weight, to help tune a truck to your desired handling may not be the worse thing. I know that sometimes my ideas get shot down. Like running a light truck a couple years back by superdave and Lars who now run trucks under 5 lbs. Or that putting XR goodies on a berg but that certainly wont defer me from my ideas Now some of you are getting off topic here. This thread isnt about light trucks, or front weight bias. ONLY about chassis weight on an MOA truck, and the effects it has on the handling. My current XR has the electronics in the belly, and the battery. My berg had only the electronics in the belly, and the battery on the front axle. My xr handles night and day better. Probably somewhat due to the link geo, and shocks being tuned better. But I still have more chassis weight, and the truck is extremely capable. So this weekend is our ORCRC comp, and I am just going to be a guinea pig and try it.... We will see how it goes. Maybe I will get some video too. |
10-12-2011, 02:14 PM | #60 |
Rock Stacker Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Norway
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The only way to make youre comparison fair, and educational, would probably be to actually move youre battery up to youre front axle, and do the same line`s over again.. And if it handles worse, you should try to move some weight back on the rear axle as well, to find out if the problem was changing the chassie weight, or just weight distribution.. I know, i just talked n00b to you But it`s a semi-basic subject, so we gotta talk semi-n00b But it`s an interesting subject for sure |
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