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Old 01-06-2012, 01:45 AM   #41
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Default Re: What's with the shift to scale?

I like the fact that with scalers you go make them go faster I am currently working on my wheely king to make it a scaler. But I also own a comp crawler and I like the fact that is has a body and not a tube frame like all the rest. Here is a pic it has a honda civic body did it to be unique.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:05 AM   #42
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Default Re: What's with the shift to scale?

Suzuki's are in the mix with Brand loyalty somewhere ;)
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:57 AM   #43
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Default Re: What's with the shift to scale?

No bashing please, just my opinion...

Looks like i am in the minority in this thread. I love comp and have zero interest in scalers. I don't really like working on my rig and i don't see the appeal of just bashing around. I do good at comps and am always trying to do better. Started 2 years ago and am more addicted now than ever before. I try to make as many big comps as i can and will continue to do so on the east coast.

And i don't agree with the, "I can't compete against wallets." Until about 5 months ago i was competing with a bully with scraped together used parts and i did just fine. It was a low budget rig but i think as long as you have an MOA and spend the time to tune it in you can be competitive. The biggest problem i see with people in the comp scene that don't do well is goofy ass setups because they won't take other people's suggestions. When i see a guy with so goofy shit i will try and help by telling him what he can do to make his truck work better, but they never change there rig and just continue to not do well.
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Old 01-06-2012, 09:38 AM   #44
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Default Re: What's with the shift to scale?

Never had a comp crawler so I can't comment on that. But what brought me into the hobby back in the day was the scale look of the Tamiya buggies ie Frog and GrassHopper. What brought me back was the Tamiya Hilux. Now I have two SCX10's- a Bronco and a Tundra Truggy. They look scale and drive great. I also bought a Slash when they came out...why? Cuz it looked like a real short coarse truck. So for me I guess I enjoy building and driving something that looks real. I think alot of people must feel the same way. I do know a couple of people I go scaling with used to drive comp rigs. They say it got to serious and it took all the fun out.
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Old 01-06-2012, 10:28 AM   #45
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Default Re: What's with the shift to scale?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wally101 View Post
I do know a couple of people I go scaling with used to drive comp rigs. They say it got to serious and it took all the fun out.
thats exactly the reason I stopped crawling, and went scaling.
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:05 AM   #46
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Default Re: What's with the shift to scale?

Where have you been man? Scalers have been cool for like 6 years now! Talk about being behind in the times! The second the first Axial Scx-10 hit the shelves it got huge! - the ironic thing is that it was starting to boom before that design even hit Axials table.
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Old 01-06-2012, 12:20 PM   #47
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Default Re: What's with the shift to scale?

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Originally Posted by stubs179 View Post
And i don't agree with the, "I can't compete against wallets." Until about 5 months ago i was competing with a bully with scraped together used parts and i did just fine. It was a low budget rig but i think as long as you have an MOA and spend the time to tune it in you can be competitive. The biggest problem i see with people in the comp scene that don't do well is goofy ass setups because they won't take other people's suggestions. When i see a guy with so goofy shit i will try and help by telling him what he can do to make his truck work better, but they never change there rig and just continue to not do well.
Competing with isn't the same as being competitive with. It is a competition after all, the better your equipment the better off you are. That's not saying practice and tuning isn't more important then the truck you drive but a RTR bully isn't going to pull the same lines as 2k+ berg or XR no matter how much you tune on it. It's just the nature of all forms of competition. Olympic runners don't by their shoes at the mall and Lance Armstrong doesn't ride a $100 10-speed from wal-mart. If someone shows up at a competition for the first time hoping to compete and realizes their not even close it can be discouraging which was the point of the wallet comment.

Personally I've had my 15min and got mad and quit for awhile because I couldn't have it again. Now I'm back, older and wiser and feel better about losing then I ever did winning but not everyone sees it that way.

I completely respect your opinion but disagree with the logic.
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Old 01-06-2012, 12:39 PM   #48
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Default Re: What's with the shift to scale?

Some people enjoy the thrill of competing. Some people enjoy just driving. Personally, I enjoy both. I can take any of my crawlers out to my favorite spot, by myself or with friends and just drive them....same lines, over and over....and it's fun as hell to me! I also enjoy nervousness of comp day and driving lines that others think I should drive.

Both of these types of toys are just plain fun to me.
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Old 01-06-2012, 12:56 PM   #49
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Default Re: What's with the shift to scale?

Obviously the people who enjoyed comp crawling but prefered to make it look like a real one were really more inclined to scale crawling but they had to make do until scalers/rock racers/FOFF became available to the masses, as usual Axial had a huge hand in this

Comp crawlers are just a niche like anything else. Not too many decades ago (too many for comfort) you had about 3 choices, 1:12th onroad, 1:10th offroad (2 or 4WD they all raced together in the beginning) or 1:8th nitro onroad - obviously a heck of a lot of those would have prefered to do a different class if they were available, usually because they were either not good enough to compete or because they wanted to mod what they had but then couldn't use it because it didn't meet the rules

Comp crawlers will always be comp crawlers, those that leave will have different reasons, some just want to try something else because it's new, some leave because they realise they'll never be any good, some think it's too expensive, some move out of R/C altogether and some just leave for a while and come back at some undetermined date later

I still race 1:12th, I first started about 1978, I've moved away a few times to try other scales but 1:12th still has a hold on me - over the last 12 months comp crawling has the same effect, you'll never see me driving a scaler/FOFF/rock racer because I'm not remotely interested
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:06 PM   #50
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Default Re: What's with the shift to scale?

i've commented on this already but.... a little off-topic but the same concept.

i agree with the " i cant compete against wallets" commnet.. because i also race lawnmowers (yes the ride-on kind) and most of us have roughly around the $500 in our mowers.. granted we have more than one.. but.. there's one guy thats a retired machinist or millwright or something and he spends close to 2k building his mowers.. they are very quick and its hard to keep up he wins alot of races... he'll spend $1800 on a race engine and we're running old engines that were pulled out of weeds and got running.. if he wins more than one race heat in a day it starts to get discouraging.. plus he runs v-twin engines.. like how can us poor people keep up with that??? my dad built a point system that brings him down into our level of racing just so we have a chance of winning and it works awesome.. i race fast and have won my fair share of races too.. but if most guys are racing in 3rd gear on a rough track im racing in 5th gear.. it does catch up with you though... you spend a lot of time fixing shit..lol..

we're the type of group (there's like 20+ member's that come out to most events) that if your having a problem and we're not racing we'll go over and give you a hand or if your mower is doing shitty we'll give you some suggestions. from there you deal with it for the race go home toss it on the workbench and start tinkering.

our group is so "even" that its not about power while racing its more about strategic moves.. watching the guy in front of you and when to pass. its getting really tough to win now, when i started mower racing i would win like 3-4 race heats in the day.. now im lucky if its 1 or 2.. and it makes it more fun.. we have 11hp/12hp mowers, but there's a few of us that have gone into the modified class and are running 16-18hp twins. i've been building a mower for the last 2 years with a 16hp v-twin and it should go like a raped ape and be "competitive" with the rest of them.

also just my .02... again off topic but has the same concept of people with more money than others.. i know people that used to race stock cars back in the day but stopped because it was getting to much of a "money war". we all know that whoever has the most money into something is gonna come out on top unless your willing to spend a ridiculous amount of time tuning your rig, or your not afraid to beat on your shit.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:17 PM   #51
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Default Re: What's with the shift to scale?

There's only one way to have a level playing field - no prototypes, that's the way most classes go, if a rig isn't in production it aint legal and can't be used, and that applies to parts too
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:23 PM   #52
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Default Re: What's with the shift to scale?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AX10wannabe View Post
i've commented on this already but.... a little off-topic but the same concept.

i agree with the " i cant compete against wallets" commnet.. because i also race lawnmowers (yes the ride-on kind) and most of us have roughly around the $500 in our mowers.. granted we have more than one.. but.. there's one guy thats a retired machinist or millwright or something and he spends close to 2k building his mowers.. they are very quick and its hard to keep up he wins alot of races... he'll spend $1800 on a race engine and we're running old engines that were pulled out of weeds and got running.. if he wins more than one race heat in a day it starts to get discouraging.. plus he runs v-twin engines.. like how can us poor people keep up with that??? my dad built a point system that brings him down into our level of racing just so we have a chance of winning and it works awesome.. i race fast and have won my fair share of races too.. but if most guys are racing in 3rd gear on a rough track im racing in 5th gear.. it does catch up with you though... you spend a lot of time fixing shit..lol..

we're the type of group (there's like 20+ member's that come out to most events) that if your having a problem and we're not racing we'll go over and give you a hand or if your mower is doing shitty we'll give you some suggestions. from there you deal with it for the race go home toss it on the workbench and start tinkering.

our group is so "even" that its not about power while racing its more about strategic moves.. watching the guy in front of you and when to pass. its getting really tough to win now, when i started mower racing i would win like 3-4 race heats in the day.. now im lucky if its 1 or 2.. and it makes it more fun.. we have 11hp/12hp mowers, but there's a few of us that have gone into the modified class and are running 16-18hp twins. i've been building a mower for the last 2 years with a 16hp v-twin and it should go like a raped ape and be "competitive" with the rest of them.

also just my .02... again off topic but has the same concept of people with more money than others.. i know people that used to race stock cars back in the day but stopped because it was getting to much of a "money war". we all know that whoever has the most money into something is gonna come out on top unless your willing to spend a ridiculous amount of time tuning your rig, or your not afraid to beat on your shit.
Yeah I messed with 1/8 nitro for awhile it was the same. Some of the guys would pull up with a trailer to carry their RC cars, tools and equipment. They had the fastest motor on the market fresh from the best engine modders in the country etc.. Their RC cars where worth more then the car I drove to the track in lol.

Even more off topic.
I would race the #$@% out of a lawn mower if they did that around here.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:24 PM   #53
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Default Re: What's with the shift to scale?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManxCrawler View Post
There's only one way to have a level playing field - no prototypes, that's the way most classes go, if a rig isn't in production it aint legal and can't be used, and that applies to parts too
So, you dont want production parts to be tested in a comp setting? Then you agree not to complain if it fails during a comp?

What about the guy who hand built every part of his truck on his workbench at home? He's not allowed to compete? I guess scalers aren't allowed to compete then.....
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:35 PM   #54
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Default Re: What's with the shift to scale?

If it was possible to read between the lines in a single line sentence, you did it. My statement is one of observation not my personal stance - even so, scalers will go exactly the same way, big wallets will ultimately start turning people away to something else
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:40 PM   #55
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Default Re: What's with the shift to scale?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManxCrawler View Post
If it was possible to read between the lines in a single line sentence, you did it.
Well, then take out the ambiguity...what exactly did you mean when you said:

"no prototypes"
and
"if a rig isn't in production it aint legal and can't be used, and that applies to parts too"
?

I read those comments as pretty straight forward, but if I interpreted them incorrectly, then I apologize.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:58 PM   #56
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Default Re: What's with the shift to scale?

The main point was 'There's only one way to have a level playing field'

This branch of R/C is almost unique, stick to wheelbase/track/cab to roof and the rest is up to you basically - there's not even a min weight limit!
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:09 PM   #57
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Default Re: What's with the shift to scale?

The crawlbots expense and increasing complex rules drove me away from comp crawling. I love the individuality, creativity, and relaxed atmosphere of scaling.

Hopefully we can keep it this way and not let the scale rules get in the way.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:11 PM   #58
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Default Re: What's with the shift to scale?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManxCrawler View Post
The main point was 'There's only one way to have a level playing field'
Just like the rest of life.....no matter how hard you try, you can never make everyone equal.

With any type of racing, whether it's RCs, 1:1 crawlers, Drag cars or lawn mowers, people will always come up with innovative ideas that push the limits...and the rules.

Those who cant afford to spend more money, can spend more time practicing.

So, the statements that I quoted didnt need any other clarification on your part?

Last edited by JeremyH; 01-06-2012 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:15 PM   #59
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Default Re: What's with the shift to scale?

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Originally Posted by SINister View Post
Yeah I messed with 1/8 nitro for awhile it was the same. Some of the guys would pull up with a trailer to carry their RC cars, tools and equipment. They had the fastest motor on the market fresh from the best engine modders in the country etc.. Their RC cars where worth more then the car I drove to the track in lol.

Even more off topic.
I would race the #$@% out of a lawn mower if they did that around here.
ya its crazy the amount of money the guy into each mower.. and to top it all off he has like 4-6 mowers.. a few years ago he started racing an 18hp twin with us and holy shit was it ever fast... last time i talk to him at a race he swapped out the 18hp and put in a 27hp that was modded to the tits.. its a full on race mower. he was getting 75hp out of a 27hp mower engine and coming out of a corner it pulls the front end off the ground and holds it for about 60ft. he blew it up so he bought some parts and sent them out right away to be modded to fit in the block. he lost about 5hp but thats still like 70hp.. in a mower thats a helluva lot of power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
oh i dont babysit my mowers.. i heard my dad say over the holidays that i only have 2 speeds "stopped or wide open" lol and its true with racing. i do spend roughly 2hrs after every race going over it (if it doesnt break) checking for loose bolts,nuts, grease everything, pull the wheels off check the wheel bearings etc.. its the price i gotta pay if i wanna play..

back on topic
the biggest thing that i've learnt hanging around people like that at a race or competition is not to let it get to you. run what you can afford and be happy about it take the time to tune, tweak etc. for me i dont need the fanciest parts on the market or the newest but because of that i need to know how to fix it also..
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:19 PM   #60
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Default Re: What's with the shift to scale?

Ok here is my opinion for what it's worth. I like most people love the thrill and excitement of competition. There are different reasons for this feeling, I myself love to win but I am definately more for seeing how I can perform for my own standard. I also enjoy the group feeling when everyone is watching the rigs run. As of this moment I currently do not have a Comp rig but I am paying off a Berg slowly (wish it was fast) so my perspective is from a Scalers POV.

When we all go out in the trail I really get a kick out of watching these awesome rigs people come up with and build. Stopping one of your friends in mid flex over an obstacle to say " Hold up man that's an awesome pic let me snap one." is really fun. Watching others see how well thier rig performed is a pretty cool Ning to watch as a spectator during non race time. All the guys I scale with will tell you, if I have a part you need we will go get it and get you running. I am very lucky my wife is as good with our money as she is otherwise I would be broke...... This coming weekend we are having a GTG for the purpose of getting everyone's rig up to comp ready level for the New Red Comp. this way we can all enjoy the event and help each other out. Sorry for the rambling but I think someone else said it before its a nitch thing either you like it or you don't. Black or white and the Scale/Comp rig is in the grey area, lol.
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