Toe in, Toe out, or Zero ack?
 

After reading MANY threads, There are pros and cons to each.

What are YOU running, and why?

Re: Toe in, Toe out, or Zero ack?
 

I am ultimately trying to get a tighter turning radius, but am limited to the angle my dogbones will afford. CVDs are not yet available for the RS10.

Re: Toe in, Toe out, or Zero ack?
 

It depends which steering knuckle mechanically bottoms out first. If it's the outside knuckle that bottoms out first add toe out. That will make the inside knuckle come closer to bottoming out also. If it's the inside knuckle that bottoms out first, you can add toe in to get the outside knuckle closer to bottoming out also.

Re: Toe in, Toe out, or Zero ack?
 

It's not the knuckle bottoming out. It's the cups on the dogbones. They are only capable of so much angle before they jam. Both sides are capable of the exact same angle.

When I first researched it, I set up my steering with some toe-out , to follow the ackerman theory of different path radi of each tire. But with locked diffs , I think this theory doesn't apply the same. There is still a lot of scrubbing. Would toe-in be much better? Or should I be running zero ackerman knuckles to get both tires to their maximum angle during full lock?

Re: Toe in, Toe out, or Zero ack?
 

You should be able to do a little grinding on those cups to give more throw. Make the angle larger and shorten the cup some. Dont go too far or you'll start throwing pins...

Re: Toe in, Toe out, or Zero ack?
 

And when you start to throw pins you are likely to bend the dogbone, which will just make it pop out constantly. :evil:

Re: Toe in, Toe out, or Zero ack?
 

Yeah I looked into grinding the cups. The RS10 cups are allready taken down as far as they can go. No grinding necessary. I put the o-rings on the inside cups to push the dogbones farther into the outer cups too.

Now I'm just trying to get the tires to do what I want them too! I need the outer tire to grab and the inner tire to scrub, I think.......

Re: Toe in, Toe out, or Zero ack?
 

Antisquat and roll center will play a part in that, I do believe! And there is a great antisquat thread which discusses both of those things called Diagram for Anti-Squat.

Re: Toe in, Toe out, or Zero ack?
 

That is true. I will keep that in mind as thats the other adjustments I'm fine tuning at this time too. Thanks.

But seriously guys, if you have unlimited steering, like, say; a shafty with CVDs, how would you set up your steering??

Re: Toe in, Toe out, or Zero ack?
 

If you want to max out your steering, remove the tie rod from one knuckle, turn both knuckles the same way until they stop, then make the tie rod whatever length it needs to be at that point. Then live with the whatever toe in or out results. Probably quite a bit of toe out. Then make sure your servo and epa's will get to the full angle.

Re: Toe in, Toe out, or Zero ack?
 

I would set up behind the axle steering so that the arms on the knuckles are aimed at the center of the rear axle so you have correct ackerman. Or if set on steering from the front make plates to go past zero ackerman. Like this.

Re: Toe in, Toe out, or Zero ack?
 

Most people seem to run near to or zero ackerman. "thumbsup" Given the packaging of the front links and shocks I have a hard time imagining correct ackerman to be best.

Re: Toe in, Toe out, or Zero ack?
 

I guess that makes the most sense in my situation. I need a new Rx/Tx to get a dig on there, so just getting everything I can from what I gots rights now.

Re: Toe in, Toe out, or Zero ack?
 

I do not do things just because others are doing it. I use methods that work. Even the Amish see the benefit of using correct ackerman on horse drawn equipment. There is no way they could get a spoked wooden wheel to hold up to an unnecisary side load. If one wheel is following a different path than the other then they are fighting each other which equals a loss of traction.

Re: Toe in, Toe out, or Zero ack?
 

What about when the front diff is locked? FWIW lots of people on this forum are very intelligent and extremely well educated. They don't do things for no reason. There is nothing wrong with doing your own thing, just look at my ax10 thread to see how foolish I can be. Understanding why the best of the best do something is a bit different than assuming they are wrong.

Re: Toe in, Toe out, or Zero ack?
 

The point I was getting at with this thread is to find out what works. I have been running toe-out to get closer to true ackerman. But I found it doesn't work the same way with a locked diff. One tire has to travel a longer distance than the other, so one is always going to scrub! There is a lot more to take into consideration here than just the radius path I think. I'm leaning more towards zero ackerman at this point.

Re: Toe in, Toe out, or Zero ack?
 

Guess I came off badly did not mean to offend. What is this FWIW?

Re: Toe in, Toe out, or Zero ack?
 

No worries. He wasn't swearing at you. ;-)
FWIW = For what it's worth

Re: Toe in, Toe out, or Zero ack?
 

I have found that a slight toe out makes the outside tire drag a bit in the turn, and keeps it from undercutting and causing the inside tire to lift. The RS-10s are almost too flexy, and it will do something similar to "torque-bind" if the front wheels are toed in at all. It might not be as pronounced on less flexy units, but the loss of traction, and instability is still there.
I discovered this because I was a motorcycle mechanic for years, and we set the atvs toe out for just that reason.

Re: Toe in, Toe out, or Zero ack?
 

Not the case with a locked front diff. If I could get my inside tire to lift just by running reverse ackerman I'd be a happy cat.