axial coming out with a MOA comp crawler anytime soon?

[Trubble]

Originally Posted by ik632

it was because the competition was so incredibly tough that you needed to build a $1000 to even finish all of the courses.

Wait a minute..... you're actually supposed to be able to finish courses?

Hrmph. All the comps I ever went to I only ever finished one.

(No, not one night finishing all three courses, I mean only finished one course)

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by Trubble

Wait a minute..... you're actually supposed to be able to finish courses?

Hrmph. All the comps I ever went to I only ever finished one.

(No, not one night finishing all three courses, I mean only finished one course)

It really sounds like the people setting up courses for you guys are not doing a good job.

[rc dreemer]

i am fairly new to the MOA scene (just finishing up a bully) due to prices of xr10's) but is the decline maybe because of the MOA "idea"? or is it the decline in use? i think i agree with the the previous post related to the sale figures (or lack of), but it seems that all MOA's have fallen off... just like my bully stuff & berg as mentioned. i first got in to the rc scene because of the scale world, so i too missed out on the whole xr10 craze (MOA scene). now i am intersted in the MOA's & just like my luck they are now not available. does any one think that the MOA scene will/could pickup if a "decent" product was available? i personnally think that the main reason was it was/is very expensive to have a MOA rc. ....

any thoughts???

[Harley]

Originally Posted by rc dreemer

does any one think that the MOA scene will/could pickup if a "decent" product was available? i personnally think that the main reason was it was/is very expensive to have a MOA rc. ....

any thoughts???

I would say yes and no.

Here's the thing, "decent" means different things to different people. Decent to some people means durable, however if you use the bully for that example you will see that durable often means it won't be competitive.

Now if you say decent as in competitive, it isn't going to satisfy the masses because you have to drive it in such a way that many either aren't capable of or would be constantly breaking. This is based on an assumption of light weight minimal materials.


Could the comp scene come back like it was? Probably pretty doubtful if you look at the history of RC. Someone once harped and harped to me that this situation would come. Compared it the RC Touring car days. Technology pushing the new comers out, I was guilty of it.

Scalers brought me into the sport the heaviest and I think that is where the spirit will always be held. People will build cheater scale comp rigs but you can't cheat a true scaler.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by Harley

Scalers brought me into the sport the heaviest and I think that is where the spirit will always be held. People will build cheater scale comp rigs but you can't cheat a true scaler.

You're fooling yourself if you think that scalers aren't going the exact same way as comp rigs did. If you read the rules, they are the exact same thing as comp rules. The main difference I see is that the comp rules dont have as many "well, I don't like the looks of that so let's not allow it" elitist attitudes of those writing the rules....

[Harley]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

You're fooling yourself if you think that scalers aren't going the exact same way as comp rigs did. If you read the rules, they are the exact same thing as comp rules. The main difference I see is that the comp rules dont have as many "well, I don't like the looks of that so let's not allow it" elitist attitudes of those writing the rules....

Scale competing could absolutely do the same. But that is just the competing side and not what scale was ever about before. C1, C2, C3 means nothing to me.

[Harley]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

The main difference I see is that the comp rules dont have as many "well, I don't like the looks of that so let's not allow it"

Actually, I really hope that attitude stays in the rules. It's what scale is about.

Appearance.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by Harley

Scale competing could absolutely do the same. But that is just the competing side and not what scale was ever about before. C1, C2, C3 means nothing to me.

I feel the same way about my comp crawlers. I drive them "for fun" all of the time...

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by Harley

Actually, I really hope that attitude stays in the rules. It's what scale is about.

Appearance.

I agree....sort of. "Scale" is about emulating 1:1 wheeling....I have never competed with my 1:1 and neither have any of my friends.

The problem arises when one person has a different viewpoint than the other. One guy saying "it's not in the 'spirit' of scale" one minute, then saying "well, it's not written in the rules" the next. Examples of this can be seen in the last page of the scale rules thread....

[EddieO]

Our local club only charges if you want to be part of the point series for the trophies and invite to nats. If you just want to come crawl with scoring and judges, its free.....I know many who do it that way....then just carpool and its dirt cheap compared to racing, where tires alone cost set you back $30 or more.

Later EddieO

Originally Posted by craddock35

None of the guys I crawl with will do comps. We tried it one time and at 20+ just to enter the comp plus travel expenses to get to where the comp was it cost us over 100 each just to be in the comp. That is crazy especially when we have areas just as good and better close by that we can go to for next to nothing. We have thought about making our own comps and charge nothing to enter but do a traveling trophy type deal or just bragging rights. Nothing lost if you lose and still the same winning feeling if you win.

[T3rry]

i think the problem with the XR is really axial's fault right from the start by getting in with Vanquish, i love vanquish parts, but they took away the sale of parts from Axial and from my perspective, the parts is where the real money is made, and axial was getting close to nothing for part sales... but that's just my view...

i dont understand why after all that R&D money spent they would not continue filling the moulds and cashing in on kit sales... maybe they figure if they stop selling kits then people would buy the individual parts and build up withr own, which gives them more profit off the small items... i don't understand the logic, that's just how it look from the bench.



As far as the cost, i really don't think it needs to be that expensive, one of the guys in our club was winning with a stock xr10, another guy was beating bergs with his no dig ax10 before the xr came out... it's not as much the money in the truck as it is the setup and wheel time experience so you know what you truck is capable of.
Sure you can spend $2000 outfitting your truck with the best of the best, but when it comes down to it if you drive like a bag of crap, you will get beat by a stock truck.

I do hope something comes out soon as i feel the sport is feeling the pressure, it's impossible for new people to get in with no off the shelf kit options available, you need to spend months researching before you know what you need to piece a comp crawler together, and even when you have it figured out, it's guaranteed to cost you a couple hundred more than that for odds and ends you hadn't considered.


Yeah, i just dont get axial, they had the only readily available kit, basically a monopoly in the scene, R&D was done, filling the moulds was just gravy money, and they killed it off after such a relatively short time... who knows?





And for comp entry, we have a relatively healthy crew in our city (average 15-20 guys per week), so it's local for almost all the guys, so the travel is not really an issue here, and the weekly comps are free, the only cost is our montly series comps, costs $10 for your first class and $5 for each additional, so it realistically costs at most $20 per month in fees, (we run 2.2p, 2.2sportsman and 1.9 mini), maybe that's why our club is so healthy? i dont know, just putting out our fee structure.

[mhflies]

basically what t3rry said... I think that the xr10 would of sold like friggin pancakes if it was a rtr with a 3 channel radio, both motors such as there 55 turns, a nice ish metal gear servo and a dig switc/esc such as the nvak m2 dig... so many newbs didn't buy it, simply because they had to put it together, and it didn't come with any electronics... the reason the ax10 sold like crazy back in the day was because it was a good crawling rtr out of the box.... definitely not compable, but you could have fun with it and it actually crawled... then they made the kit version ...it sold simply because a lot of people have seen the rtr do good crawling wise! where the xr10... no one has driven one, each one is different due to it not coming with tires/electronics so know one has a thought to base it off of... when the xr10 first came out, I simply didn't get it being I didnt know what tires or electronics to get, and I cant stand building a giant a$$ puzzle! then I finally got it like 4 months ago... novak 55 turn expert motors, b1r esc's, hs7980th servo and a bec, and a 3 cell 850 mah lipo, running off of my dx6 controller and rolling on some hotbodie rovers... that thing was insane I thought! If I knew it was going to crawl tat good I would have gotten one from the start! oh well, just a 16 yr olds point of view

[Harley]

Originally Posted by mhflies

the reason the ax10 sold like crazy back in the day was because it was a good crawling rtr out of the box.... definitely not compable, but you could have fun with it and it actually crawled... then they made the kit version ...it sold simply because a lot of people have seen the rtr do good crawling wise!

Incorrect. The kit version was out first, followed by the RTR Rock Racer version that wasn't nearly as popular. It wasn't until at least a year or two later that the RTC (ready to crawl) came out.

[Harley]

Originally Posted by T3rry

i think the problem with the XR is really axial's fault right from the start by getting in with Vanquish, i love vanquish parts, but they took away the sale of parts from Axial and from my perspective, the parts is where the real money is made, and axial was getting close to nothing for part sales... but that's just my view...

They didn't "get in with Vanquish", that was simply a licensing agreement for the wheel design.

Vanquish was just faster to market with parts to fix areas that people were concerned with. Axial even came out with duplicate parts (motor plates) after Vanquish had already released their own versions.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by Harley

They didn't "get in with Vanquish", that was simply a licensing agreement for the wheel design.

Vanquish was just faster to market with parts to fix areas that people were concerned with. Axial even came out with duplicate parts (motor plates) after Vanquish had already released their own versions.

You sure aboot that? If my memory serves me correctly, VP released a lot of their stuff within days of the XR kit being released. No way they did all of the R&D and production in that time without advanced knowledge of the dimensions...

[Calderwood]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

You sure aboot that? If my memory serves me correctly, VP released a lot of their stuff within days of the XR kit being released. No way they did all of the R&D and production in that time without advanced knowledge of the dimensions...

It seems to me that they would have "access" to the rig they are designing a wheel for. Anyone in that position would get ready for what's next.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by nigels_world

It seems to me that they would have "access" to the rig they are designing a wheel for. Anyone in that position would get ready for what's next.

[Harley]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

You sure aboot that? If my memory serves me correctly, VP released a lot of their stuff within days of the XR kit being released. No way they did all of the R&D and production in that time without advanced knowledge of the dimensions...

Pretty sure

[Harley]

Originally Posted by nigels_world

It seems to me that they would have "access" to the rig they are designing a wheel for. Anyone in that position would get ready for what's next.

They didn't design the wheel. They licensed the technology to them for the weight system.

[Calderwood]

Originally Posted by Harley

They didn't design the wheel. They licensed the technology to them for the weight system.

Thanks for setting me straight. :beer: