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Thread: axial coming out with a MOA comp crawler anytime soon?

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Old 06-13-2013, 03:41 PM   #61
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Default Re: axial coming out with a MOA comp crawler anytime soon?

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Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4 View Post
...people get tired of dumping money into a toy truck trying to feel competitive.
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Originally Posted by JeremyH View Post
...Why does this keep getting repeated? Why do people think that money or objects makes you a good driver?
I believe it's because of what everyone sees here on RCC. For many people, the "perception" is, you have to have the latest Carbon/Titanium/one-off piece because they see it being done here.

I do agree with Jeremy that practice will get you much further than a fistful of $100 bills, but seeing all of the latest stuff is what fuels the perception that money is what's needed. As a vendor, I know I'm partly guilty of this myself. It's not intentional, and I would never suggest buying something I sell over practicing with what you have first.
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Old 06-13-2013, 03:52 PM   #62
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Default Re: axial coming out with a MOA comp crawler anytime soon?

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Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4 View Post
Once you don't feel like you are competitive and can't finish courses, you get tired of playing.
I seriously cant believe you just said this. So, because you don't feel like you can win something, you quit? Wow. I don't think there is a single aspect of my life where I would choose to quit over trying to better myself in that area.

If you stopped being the "concourse champion" you'd stop running in comps with your scalers?

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Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4 View Post
I knew I should have put in my disclaimer about being one of the best drivers in the country in case you pulled out something like that. I'm talking about the "also-rans" on the signup sheet, not 2 or 3 guys in the country.
Lets compare the amount of practice those guys put in versus those other guys you were talking about....

BTW, if you paid attention to sportys, you'd realize that they are a LOT more competitive these days. I'd be willing to bet that a sporty could do very well against a lot of the pro rigs on pro courses.

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Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4 View Post
People push rules to gain a technical advantage to perform better at comps and that's not what scale comps are supposed to be about, that's what USRCCA comps are for.
So your bronco scaler doesnt have products that have a technical advantage over others? No overdrive/underdrive? No fancy electronics? No high tech foams in the tires? No lightweight products that are more expensive than their heavier counterparts.

These days, scalers are more like comp rigs than you realize.
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Old 06-13-2013, 03:53 PM   #63
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Default Re: axial coming out with a MOA comp crawler anytime soon?

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I do agree with Jeremy that practice will get you much further than a fistful of $100 bills, but seeing all of the latest stuff is what fuels the perception that money is what's needed.
Instant gratification....it's the American Way. Nobody wants to work hard for what they want these days.

As Dlux says: "wanna get, gotta want"
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Old 06-13-2013, 04:05 PM   #64
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Default Re: axial coming out with a MOA comp crawler anytime soon?

+1 to everything Jeremy said, i have seen guys with no dig stock chassis ax10's beat full out bergs before, it's really all about knowing your truck...
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Old 06-13-2013, 04:07 PM   #65
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Default Re: axial coming out with a MOA comp crawler anytime soon?

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Originally Posted by C*H*U*D View Post
I believe it's because of what everyone sees here on RCC. For many people, the "perception" is, you have to have the latest Carbon/Titanium/one-off piece because they see it being done here.
I think you nailed it. Perception is what sells product lines.

I have a crawling buddy that is not very mechanically savvy but has lots o money.
I bought a RTR Wraith & he bought a used, slightly built XR10.
I have been modding & improving my wraiths crawling ability, while he has bought many "bling" type parts that don't really improve its ability.
When I have a problem I research & investigate until I find the problem & solution & fix it.
When he has a problem he buys more new parts he assumes will fix it & then gets pissed when it doesn't drop right in or fix the problem.
His perception is the more $$ he dumps into his XR10 the more he can walk all over my wraith.
My perception is the more time I put into my truck (driving, tweaking) the better we will drive.
He is wrong & I am finally able to prove it with my Fastback II chassis & lots of thinking, tinkering, driving & buying only what I need to get where I want.
He is currently trying to figure out what to do cause his XR gears are popping under stress (he bought all new HR gears to solve it against my advise.)
I have drove for the past 5 days straight & his is on the shelf with all new gears.

Perception is the key.
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Old 06-13-2013, 04:26 PM   #66
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Default Re: axial coming out with a MOA comp crawler anytime soon?

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He is currently trying to figure out what to do cause his XR gears are popping under stress (he bought all new HR gears to solve it against my advise.)
What has he done so far? There are several good tricks to get rid of that. Is he running that titanium shaft?
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Old 06-13-2013, 04:33 PM   #67
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Default Re: axial coming out with a MOA comp crawler anytime soon?

He bought new gears.
His gears are fine.
I think its bearing play on the shaft/bearing at the top of the axle where it meets the tranny.
I think he is tightening too much or not in a good order. I suggested (even emailed links) he check out some of the solutions people have used on here (ca, foil shims, etc.) as well as the VP AL upper rather than new gears as a possible fix.
Rear Axle Pop

Mark Reel's XR10 Build 11th place at nats

No stock shaft I believe.
You can lead a horse to water..............
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Old 06-13-2013, 04:36 PM   #68
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Default Re: axial coming out with a MOA comp crawler anytime soon?

Those are good solutions. Personally, I use a dab of CA along the lower bearing race and I have also shaved the housings a bit to get them to close tighter. I have also found that no matter what I do, anytime I use the Ti crossshafts, the gears pop. I think that shaft is just bending.
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Old 06-13-2013, 05:10 PM   #69
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Default Re: axial coming out with a MOA comp crawler anytime soon?

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I seriously cant believe you just said this. So, because you don't feel like you can win something, you quit?
Don't make up words. I already told you I enjoyed competing even though I wasn't winning. Listen closely, it's being competitive that keeps most people going. Being competitive and feeling you have a chance to win is what keeps you trying, gives you the drive to try harder, and makes you want to go back again.
I put more time and money than I care to even think about trying to promote and grow RCC, the USRCCA, and rc crawling in general. I put everything I had into something I loved because I wanted to see it grow. The only way I was going to get better was practice, right, well spending my free time practicing would mean even more time away from my wife and kids and I will only give up so much for toy trucks. My wife and kids had let me have my fun with no complaints, but there is a limit to what you put into a hobby.
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I seriously cant believe you just said this. So, because you don't feel like you can win something, you quit? Wow. I don't think there is a single aspect of my life where I would choose to quit over trying to better myself in that area.
Phuck you Jeremy. You think it was easy to go back to college and get a Mechanical Engineering degree 10 years after high school? You think it was easy to raise a little girl like your own daughter while being a full time college student? You think it was easy to go find contract engineering jobs to pay the bills when I got laid off and there was nobody hiring? Don't even compare rc trucks to life.

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Originally Posted by JeremyH View Post
If you stopped being the "concourse champion" you'd stop running in comps with your scalers?
I am an all-in kind of guy. I give something 100% or I don't do it at all. I was inspired by John Boyer's Bronco build and I did everything I could to build the vision in my head. I don't do it to win, I win because people like what I did.
I travel thousands of miles to go to competitions knowing that I am going to do terrible in the driving competitions and knowing that someday I will lose the concourse title. What keeps me going to the events is the fun I have seeing old friends and making new ones.

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Originally Posted by JeremyH View Post
Lets compare the amount of practice those guys put in versus those other guys you were talking about....
It's part of their job. Your best example of practice paying off is someone who does it for a living.
Many people don't have time to spend practicing, they have jobs, families, and other obligations. So no time to practice means they aren't competitive and they don't enjoy being at comps. So here we are talking about it.

BTW, Juan nailed what I had implied. It's the lure of better equipment, the belief that better equipment is needed because that's what the winners have.
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Originally Posted by JeremyH View Post
So your bronco scaler doesnt have products that have a technical advantage over others? No overdrive/underdrive?
Yes, but that has nothing to do with the rules and I do it to help my rig be competitive because it is so handicapped as-is.
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Originally Posted by JeremyH View Post
No fancy electronics?
Nope. $100 Hitec servos, MMP, and a Pro4.
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Originally Posted by JeremyH View Post
No high tech foams in the tires?
Nope, a combination of stock foams from old tires I had.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyH View Post
No lightweight products that are more expensive than their heavier counterparts.
Guido weighs 12 pounds. You tell me if I have a bunch of lightweight stuff on him.

Good luck with the comps.
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Old 06-13-2013, 05:12 PM   #70
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Default Re: axial coming out with a MOA comp crawler anytime soon?

You guys were talking about rules and such earlier. Let me throw this in; Why in the heck do I have to run in pro class if I have a bodiless AX10? If I wanted a body, I'd get into scale. I don't see why the sportsman class doesn't allow it. I have a Edge chassis now and I'm tired of dragging all the extra weight around. I've done a ton of research and looks like Juan is the only guy making bodiless. I want to start comping, but I mostly run here on the farm. I just wish I could buy a full cf or delrin chassis like the bodied guys can run. I've read back into the archives and seen a few threads about this rule. Seems to me that allowing bodiless would open up a market for our supporting vendors. I know I'd jump on one. Then when I'm tuned and practiced up, I could go and not fear getting moved to a class I'm not ready for.
@Juan, I'll be hitting you up for a fastback soon. I'll have to start over with a forward bias learning curve.
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Old 06-13-2013, 05:20 PM   #71
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Default Re: axial coming out with a MOA comp crawler anytime soon?

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You guys were talking about rules and such earlier. Let me throw this in; Why in the heck do I have to run in pro class if I have a bodiless AX10? If I wanted a body, I'd get into scale. I don't see why the sportsman class doesn't allow it. I have a Edge chassis now and I'm tired of dragging all the extra weight around. I've done a ton of research and looks like Juan is the only guy making bodiless. I want to start comping, but I mostly run here on the farm. I just wish I could buy a full cf or delrin chassis like the bodied guys can run. I've read back into the archives and seen a few threads about this rule. Seems to me that allowing bodiless would open up a market for our supporting vendors. I know I'd jump on one. Then when I'm tuned and practiced up, I could go and not fear getting moved to a class I'm not ready for.
@Juan, I'll be hitting you up for a fastback soon. I'll have to start over with a forward bias learning curve.
My answer would be that the bodiless chassis killed the scale looks of 2.2 and they don't want that to happen in 2.2 S.

Jeremy's answer would be that you don't practice enough.

I don't speak for the USRCCA anymore but I think the reason is they wanted a class where bodies were used to help promote manufacturers of bodies. Since so little of the 2.2 pro rigs run bodies anymore.
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Old 06-13-2013, 06:49 PM   #72
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Default Re: axial coming out with a MOA comp crawler anytime soon?

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Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4 View Post
My answer would be that the bodiless chassis killed the scale looks of 2.2 and they don't want that to happen in 2.2 S.

Jeremy's answer would be that you don't practice enough.

I don't speak for the USRCCA anymore but I think the reason is they wanted a class where bodies were used to help promote manufacturers of bodies. Since so little of the 2.2 pro rigs run bodies anymore.
Actually, I spend more time with my crawler than all of my other RC's. I'm fortunate enough to live on a farm and have equipment that I built a track here at my house. If I didn't have a 12yo boy that loves the go-fast stuff, I'd sell it all to fund crawling. I love these things and have been lurking on here for years. I've delved into the bowels of this site. Even read the rules of classes and vehicles I have no interest in.
As far as who the sanctioning body is trying to keep happy, I'm not so concerned. I'd rather support Underground, Chris the battery Man, etc. Where is Proline, Parma, etc in the true comp scene anyways?
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:12 PM   #73
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Default Re: axial coming out with a MOA comp crawler anytime soon?

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Phuck you Jeremy.
Wow. You lost me here. I stopped reading. Good luck with your scalers, please stop shitting on my faction of the hobby.
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:16 PM   #74
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Default Re: axial coming out with a MOA comp crawler anytime soon?

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Why in the heck do I have to run in pro class if I have a bodiless AX10?
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Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4 View Post
Jeremy's answer would be that you don't practice enough.
Actually, my answer would be that the RC (a group that includes Grizzly4x4, for what reason, I don't know) made the decision to disallow that type of chassis. Many people were against it, many people voiced their opinions, the decision was still made in that direction.

Last edited by JeremyH; 06-13-2013 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:18 PM   #75
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Default Re: axial coming out with a MOA comp crawler anytime soon?

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As far as who the sanctioning body is trying to keep happy, I'm not so concerned. I'd rather support Underground, Chris the battery Man, etc. Where is Proline, Parma, etc in the true comp scene anyways?
I agree 100%!!!

We tried for a long time to make major players happy.......and they are all GONE NOW! I say good riddance. We still have the one man shop vendors on this forum who make specialty parts for us to enjoy ourselves. We need to try and make THEM happy to repay the favor. To hell with the companies that used us for a quick buck, then tucked tail and ran...
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:02 AM   #76
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Default Re: axial coming out with a MOA comp crawler anytime soon?

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... I think the reason is they wanted a class where bodies were used to help promote manufacturers of bodies. Since so little of the 2.2 pro rigs run bodies anymore.
This was the rumor I heard as well. I did however hear that it was to piggyback onto the advertising that the larger body manufactures would obviously pony up for, if one of their bodies made any sort of National Championship.

As a manufacturer of bodiless shafty chassis', when I first heard of the 2.2s rules I was totally against them. I thought they went against the spirit of "Run What Ya Brung".

However!!

I changed my mind when I thought about what it could really mean. Imagine if a Parma body (or insert your favorite maker here) won a National Crawler Championship. They would have the money for a big 2-page ad in all the magazines promoting their win. No matter how you slice it, that's free advertising for RC Crawling...something that all of us smaller vendors could not possible do.

I'm against the bodiless ban, but I understand why it's there. However, if nothing comes of it, I say let everyone run what they want.




Wow...did this thread take a serious detour or what??
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Old 06-14-2013, 06:39 AM   #77
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Default Re: axial coming out with a MOA comp crawler anytime soon?

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Imagine if a Parma body (or insert your favorite maker here) won a National Crawler Championship. They would have the money for a big 2-page ad in all the magazines promoting their win. No matter how you slice it, that's free advertising for RC Crawling...something that all of us smaller vendors could not possible do.
Last year was the first year EVER that a bodiless rig won the 2.2p class at nationals. Have we seen a mag spread from a body company before?

I too, understand what the RC was trying to do, but the follow through was simply not there and it does not seem to have the effect that was hoped for....
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Old 06-14-2013, 07:22 AM   #78
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Default Re: axial coming out with a MOA comp crawler anytime soon?

could care less if i win or lose a comp, just like to go out and have fun. if you piss and moan everytime you dont win this is the wrong hobby.

its all about making your rig the best you can, and most important have fun. isn't that why we all got into this hobby? I've seen too mny guys throw or kick there rig because they didnt win or finish a course, seen sally1800 throw a temper tantrum almost every time he didnt come out on top.

guys like that are just giving the nebs a bad example. of what good sportman ship is all about. thank god the fool no longer comes around, makes a much more enjoyable day for everyone.
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:17 AM   #79
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Default Re: axial coming out with a MOA comp crawler anytime soon?

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could care less if i win or lose a comp, just like to go out and have fun. if you piss and moan everytime you dont win this is the wrong hobby.

its all about making your rig the best you can, and most important have fun. isn't that why we all got into this hobby? I've seen too mny guys throw or kick there rig because they didnt win or finish a course, seen sally1800 throw a temper tantrum almost every time he didnt come out on top.

guys like that are just giving the nebs a bad example. of what good sportman ship is all about. thank god the fool no longer comes around, makes a much more enjoyable day for everyone.
i can't agree entire with this, without the desire to win, why enter a competition? i realise some people take it too far, but if the goal is not winning, then why bother with competitions? this "sport" would not be nearly what it is if not for organised competitions and the desire to win, people would not be travelling across the country, and the world, to meet up for the nats, if it was just to go drive around and play with your toy trucks with other people.
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:34 PM   #80
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Default Re: axial coming out with a MOA comp crawler anytime soon?

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As far as who the sanctioning body is trying to keep happy, I'm not so concerned. I'd rather support Underground, Chris the battery Man, etc. Where is Proline, Parma, etc in the true comp scene anyways?
The biggest class is 2.2 Pro and very few people run bodies anymore at the national level. If Proline and Parma don't get exposure or sell product why support the event. You gotta remember, they still have to run a business and see a return on their investment.
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