Motor or Pinion first? Which is better?

[DieCastoms]

Ok, before it starts ... I searched. I've been searching. There's a million threads about this, none of which answered my question. . .

My question is this:

What guidelines are there for a newb like me to follow when he or she is unsure of whether to upgrade his or her motor or to change his or her pinion?

Is this a simple fact of "put smaller pinions until there isn't a small enough pinion, and then get a stronger motor and start over" or is it "get a stronger motor and then find an appropriate sized pinion" or what? Which is better to do first, the motor or the pinion? Is there a way to find a 'good balance' or is this all in the eyes of the beholder, every different person having their own way to decide?

Little confused,

DC.

[Calderwood]

Motor then gearing.

[Dostradamas]

What issue do you have with the current set up?
Gets too hot?
Too slow?
Too fast?
Not enough torque?
Whats the problem you want to fix?

[DieCastoms]

I was hoping for a more "in general" answer, actually. Is there no sort of generic "t's better to start with _____ and then go to ____"?

For my specific case, the motor has -never- gotten hot (the battery gets hotter while charging than the motor after I've driven it as hard as I drive it). I'd like to get more torque out of it, but I like the speed it's at right now (slower than stock, with a 17t pinion, but still stock motor). I'm going to buy either a 65t or 80t motor, just for the hell of it because they are only $10 from RC4WD just to see the difference compared to the one I have now, which is 27t. If that motor holds up well (which I honestly don't care if it does or not, for $10), I will buy a pinion to get some of the speed back.

Now, I know someone out there is going to tell me I am defeating my purpose buy buying a strong motor, and then gearing it back up to get the speed back (NOT racing speed, but at least a fast walk speed), but if that was true, an Oshkosh 8x8 would be perfectly happy with the pissy engine from my Kia in it. There MUST be some balance between the two to keep SOME speed and still have the torque..

anyways. We'll see, wont we?

DC.

[z50king]

You should try changing the pinion gear before the motor because the pinions cost less. You can try out more combos just by changing pinion than by changing the more expensive motor

[Dostradamas]

Originally Posted by DieCastoms

I was hoping for a more "in general" answer, actually. Is there no sort of generic "t's better to start with _____ and then go to ____"?

Oh well thats easy, buy those motors & some pinions & find the sweet spot you like.

Motors & gearing are very subjective.
Trial & error is really the only way to get what you want.
Try a setup & adjust to taste kinda like salt & pepper in soup (you are the only one who can judge.)

[sidehiller]

Originally Posted by DieCastoms

I was hoping for a more "in general" answer, actually. Is there no sort of generic "t's better to start with _____ and then go to ____"?

(NOT racing speed, but at least a fast walk speed),

DC.

I would sugest a HH 27-35 turn The TorqueMaster Sport 540 Holmes Hobbies LLC

or a HH 27 Turn Trail Master Sport 540 Holmes Hobbies LLC

[DieCastoms]

Originally Posted by sidehiller

or a HH 27 Turn Trail Master Sport 540 Holmes Hobbies LLC

Ok, now you've brought up another question ...

Why should I spend money on an HH 27t motor when I already have a 27t motor in my truck? Is there a benefit to speed and torque if it is still a 27t motor? Or is the suggested change simply because it is a better quality motor than the Axial motor?


So back to my initial motor question, how would a newb know this other than asking questions like this on the forum? Is there no comprehensive comparison list somewhere, at all? How would one know if the 27t Torquemaster is more or less powerful than the 27t TrailMaster? Assuming, of course, that torque and speed were the only things being considered, and not the other features of those two motors.. Why don't these motor ads include torque/rpm ratings like servos do?

so confusing . . . .

dc.

[Dostradamas]

Mopar or Ford?

You want a question that takes 20 yrs of experience to form an opinion on answered as fact on here or in advertising.

Advertisements are designed to sell stuff not to give out real information.
Most things today take many approach angles of information gathering to get a idea of whats real & what is BS.

The HH 27T is rebuild able
The Axial 27T is not rebuild able
The HH has more torque
The HH is designed to be upgraded/ modded

Those servo ratings you refer to are misleading as well, some list stall torque & some list operational torque (without disclosing which is which.)

Basically buyer beware.
This forum is a group of individuals with collectively have lifetimes worth of experience you just have to navigate through to get to the bare facts sometimes.
Sometimes you just have to trust the posts from people you don't know & take a shot.

[Charlie-III]

Originally Posted by DieCastoms

Ok, now you've brought up another question ...

Why should I spend money on an HH 27t motor when I already have a 27t motor in my truck? Is there a benefit to speed and torque if it is still a 27t motor? Or is the suggested change simply because it is a better quality motor than the Axial motor?

To add to the confusion....a little.....in general.....a 27T "stock" motor is bottom rung, next up is a decent 27T machine wound motor (Holmes or Br00d), best is a 27T hand wound motor (Br00d or Holmes).

So, it's tough to compare motors/gearing, even between the same wind.

[DieCastoms]

Ok, next question.. sorry to be a pain..

Will I need a better ESC if I want the TrailMaster Sport 27t?

I have the stock Honcho pinion which I believe is 20t, and I also have the 17t that I bought. Is there another size you'd suggest? I think I will buy a slightly bigger pinion than was stock and keep that on the Axial motor, and use that motor for when I go to the parking lots, and then use the HH motor and appropriate pinion for when I go crawling...

I wish I could afford the 2-speed trans...

Hope I'm not coming off as a jerk or something, that was not at all my intent..

DC.

[JBailey]

Not to make this any harder on you, but I think (and I'm no expert) battery type and voltage will play a pretty significant role in torque and wheel speed as well. Just something else to consider lol.

[DieCastoms]

Oh, I am sure it will, but for the moment I am not interested in changing the battery, much to the disagreement of many advisers. I simply do not want to. My reasons for this are apparently not good enough for other, but they are, in fact, my reasons. As it tends to get me into a debate, I try not to discuss it often..

dc

[Olle P]

Originally Posted by DieCastoms

I was hoping for a more "in general" answer, actually. ...

I'd say the general answer is:
- Start by defining your current status and your goal. (I have rig X running motor Y with spur/pinion combo Z and battery voltage V. I think my speed/torque/temps are W. Instead I want it to be (at least) Q.)
- Check out the subsection appropriate to rig X in this forum. Read what other drivers use in terms of motor/battery/gearing and what they achieve with it.
- Based on those descriptions you can make an estimate to what you need to reach your goal!

[sidehiller]

Originally Posted by DieCastoms

Ok, next question.. sorry to be a pain..

Will I need a better ESC if I want the TrailMaster Sport 27t?

DC.

No need for sorrys, we are all here to learn/teach/share.

If you have the stock esc you will be fine. My son has been running his stock esc for just over a year with no issues, other then a few burnt stock motors.
In other words the stock esc is great but the stock motors are junk

Sent from my GT-I9100M using Tapatalk 2

[Manning]

Here's a motor analogy....

The stock non rebuild able motors would be comparable to a Briggs and Stratton, whereas a Holmes or Brood would be like a Yamaha / Honda / Kawasaki / Suzuki motorcycle motor. Wildly better power and quality.


For typical crawlers, it's motor first, then match the pinion to the rest of the setup. The standard crawler setup is 3 cell lipo with 27-45 turn motors with small pinion. There's a reason why this is the std setup......because it simply works. Excellent low speed control with good wheel speed


A small pinion will provide good low speed control, but limited wheel speed. A big pinion will provide more wheel speed, but will reduce low speed control, and can result in bogging the motor in certain situations. Like climbing an undercut. The driver applies throttle, truck doesn't move, more throttle is applied, and so on until the truck suddenly pops up uncontrolled. The std setup described above will be far more controllable in the same situation.

[rcmedic]

Or you can just go Brushless, and have low end and tons of top end.

[Olle P]

Originally Posted by rcmedic

Or you can just go Brushless, and have low end and tons of top end.

Brushless is pretty much limited in use to FOFF and crawlers with worm drives.

Low speed behaviour is decidedly more smooth with brushed motors.

[alexchen86]

Question you have to ask yourself first is what do I plan on doing with my rig whether it be a scaler 1.9/2.2 or a competition rig 1.9/2.2.

After you have decided what its main purpose is for (mudding, trailing, bashing, competitive crawling, rock racing, G6 events, or just messing around). Then look for a motor that will be suitable to not only your needs but also your budget. Competition rig motors run anywhere from $40 each to $150ish I've seen. And pro rigs need TWO of them!!

So back to your question...if you are running say an SCX10 RTR or kit version we need to know what your current electronics are (type of battery source, ESC, servo, motor, current gearing, and also any upgrades you've done).

An SCX10 is one tough rig and the aftermarket support behind it is just as strong as Traxxas which is unbelievable. But do keep in mind more power whether it be torque or speed will always equal breakage of parts. So read around and you will know what to buy and what not worth buying!!

[rcmedic]

Originally Posted by Olle P

Brushless is pretty much limited in use to FOFF and crawlers with worm drives.

Low speed behaviour is decidedly more smooth with brushed motors.

I'll put my sc4x against your brushed motor everyday