What's going on with axle supply at the moment?

[Foxy42]

I've been in the hobby for nearly 30 years, only just started crawling.

Bought myself a Bully ARTR full cast, stock chassis, built it up, it ran nice, but heavy, realised I would need to do a scratch build if I wanted the performance I am looking for (want to comp seriously), so I sold the cast rig with some upgrades to a close friend and set about speccing my next crawler.

I decided on a massive long list of stuff based again on bully axles, this time the lightweight ones. So I ordered the lightweight bullies from RC4wd, and immediately noticed that I had bought the last ones, they were out of sock after I placed my order. I also got a chaotic chassis, and everything else I would need to build a great machine. $1000 spent already!!

So my axles turn up first (for good or bad, RC4wd stuff comes fast, albeit with a heavy shipping tab), and I immediately notice that there is no stock steering assembly. Not a huge deal as I plan on cutting the tubes for a vertical low CG servo arrangement and making my own carbon fiber servo mount, but I thought it might be nice to have the stock steering set in any case, so I went back to RC4wd and noticed its out of stock. Hm...ok, like I say, not the end of the world. So I decided to check if the description of the lightweight axles includes a steering assembly, of course it doesn't, but what I noticed straight away was that now the description of the lightweight axles has the big red DISCONTINUED sticker on it, and there are none in stock. Why would they discontinue their best axle prior to releasing the latest version to the public? Even if they didn't want two manufacturing processes going on at the moment (new and old axles), the lightweights still have value in the market as a cheaper set of competent axles.

On the bright side, seems like I got the last set of brand new lightweight axles that RC4wd ever made, which is kinda special.

However, and despite my brand loyalty to RC4wd (I love their stuff, I must say, almost all of it)...that leaves me thinking...if I were in the same potition I was a few months ago, wanting to build a really good comp crawler, I'm shit outta luck!!

Berg axles...only second hand or piece by piece, and even I can't work out what I need in order to build them (is there a guide anywhere to how to buy berg v2s new?)
XR10 axles...only in one of the overpriced brand new kits floating around or second hand with mods off ebay, or from parts again (unfeasible for someone living overseas)
Bully axles...only the cast ones, which aren't ideal in the current comp landscape (at least not in the rear)
Lightweight bully axles - forget it, I seem to have the last ones

What's left to base a new build on? The Bully V2s? Yeh, I'd love them, but you can't buy them or get on the waiting list at the current time.

So what's the point of all this?

Where is the competition? Where are the axles? Why aren't there more comp axles available? Why aren't the companies that make axles trying to meet demand? Are we in a quiet 'everybody is updating their axles' period at the moment?

The time is now for any up and coming engineering or RC company to make an all-new axle, since the old school seems to be disappearing, or only available to the elite...XR10 - Gone. Old bullies - almost gone. Bergs? Like how the hell do you buy an Enroute axle anyway?

Rather than flame me if I'm dead wrong, please point out what this noob seems to have missed. Thanks folks...

[opek]

You bought the wrong axles. Probably should have posted this in the newbies section.

[Foxy42]

I don't think this is a noobie topic, but I will bow to the mods decision if they want to move it.

Thanks for letting me know that I bought the wrong axles, though I disagree, for price and performance I believe they are ideal for me at my current state of learning. I already had some experience with the cast ones and now I'm taking it to the next level. This will be a 6lb rig, which is hardly fat, under the circumstances (I ain't going to the US Nat's any time soon, and there is currently no officially organized competition in Greece).

What are your thoughts on the current axle market. If you were to build a comp 2.2 rig, what axle would you choose that are available to order new today?

[R2j]

Don't get discouraged! I would hold out a little longer for the V2 Bully axles, they should be out soon. In the mean time I would build the light weight ones as planned and enjoy!

[Harley]

To answer your bully question, you likely won't see much more about them. RC4WD has the new bullys coming out so I would expect a phasing out of all the existing parts.

Axial pulled the XR as the interest in comp crawling has faded over the last few years.

Berg, always was a crap shoot to begin with as we had zero interaction with the initial manufacturer. It's hard to say what they are thinking or doing at any given moment.

All in all, buying the Bully axles was likely a costly mistake.

[mammoth]

Originally Posted by Foxy42

I don't think this is a noobie topic, but I will bow to the mods decision if they want to move it.

Thanks for letting me know that I bought the wrong axles, though I disagree, for price and performance I believe they are ideal for me at my current state of learning. I already had some experience with the cast ones and now I'm taking it to the next level. This will be a 6lb rig, which is hardly fat, under the circumstances (I ain't going to the US Nat's any time soon, and there is currently no officially organized competition in Greece).

What are your thoughts on the current axle market. If you were to build a comp 2.2 rig, what axle would you choose that are available to order new today?

So If i were to start all over again I would most likely buy a built rig of either a xr10 or berg v1 in the price range of $1000.00 US and go from there.

However i'm more of a lets build this and see how it works. With that in mind I would most likely build a berg if I were to do it over again and may just do that yet but not until $ is available and I have no other builds i'm interested in.

You can build either axle from scatch but some parts are geting hard to find these days (VP rear upper link mount xr10). From the little research I have done into berg v1 axles you should check out these 3 vendors:
Dlux DLUX FAB | products
RC BROS RCBros
ClassicCutCustoms Bulldog Berg Gear cases

They seem to me to be at the top of the list when it comes to berg axles. Well I hope that helps some.

[Calderwood]

berg v1, v2, and v3
xr10 from parts
rs10
exceed
clod
xtm
integy
hot racing

and I'm sure there are more I'm forgetting.

[Foxy42]

That helps a lot in the berg arena, thanks.

I think interest in comp crawling in general is on the rise again.

As for the bullies, I don't think they'll be a waste. If I get a year out of them for 190 that's fine, and I'll own a nice piece of comp crawling history.

Thanks for the vids Harley, you had a large hand in inspiring me to take up crawling.

[Foxy42]

Originally Posted by nigels_world

berg v1, v2, and v3
xr10 from parts
rs10
exceed
clod
xtm
integy
hot racing

and I'm sure there are more I'm forgetting.

I don't think all of those are top level comp-worthy moas but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

The thing is, the most competitive axles are difficult to source, perhaps that's how it should be, but it seems to me that Rc4wd is the only top level comp axle sold as a single unit.

Seems bergs or bully v2s are the way forward for now, but doesn't it seem like a gaping opportunity in a market with very little competition currently?

[redsawacs]

I had a conversation with a manufacturer a few months back and the topic of discontinued platforms came up. What I got from them was some chatter regarding differences in opinion in the USRCCA circles that affected a manufacturer's ability to offer a competitive RTR or KIT version for those offering that type of platform let alone a product to meet current competition guild lines that would be around for any given time to make it cost effective to R&D. However, I was assured that they would look at offering another at some point in the future.

With that said, I don't think its a "the sport is dying" issue, I think its a "lets wait to see what happens before spending more money in production costs.

Now, I am a gumshoe at best in the crawler world and I certainly don't get into the politics of it all, but what I can relate this rambling to is, Stuff changes. In with the new and out with the old - as already mentioned, I think you just bought at the wrong time.

Making contact with the company before, they may have given you a heads up. I would certainly give them a call now and see what can me don't to get you where you want to be. After all, that's a lot of money!

[Calderwood]

Originally Posted by Foxy42

I don't think all of those are top level comp-worthy moas but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

The thing is, the most competitive axles are difficult to source, perhaps that's how it should be, but it seems to me that Rc4wd is the only top level comp axle sold as a single unit.

Seems bergs or bully v2s are the way forward for now, but doesn't it seem like a gaping opportunity in a market with very little competition currently?

Dlux sells complete axles. Nothing hard about sourcing them.


More competition is coming...

[pajey]

There are actually lots of choices out there. And like shown above you can buy separate parts from venders here and make a tank set of berg axles. Bulldog gear cases, rcbros lightened locker and gears, rcbros tubes or dlux tubes. For the front just add VP chubs and knuckles as well as SDS custom cvd. For the rear just add a creeperbob axle.

But with some mods the bullies can be really competitive. I don't think anyone makes bully delrin tubes but someone could probably help you out. If you got some just add VP chubs and mod the bully knuckles. Grind the gear cases and turn down the tubes(unless have delrin). Cut top link mount. Mill down the axle for a little more steering. And you'll have a tough fairly light axle. Just check out stubs build thread among others.

[cabron]

so is it the crawler or the driver that wins the comps???



someone would buy your lightweight bullys no problem. many people will want spares.

i have a super bully that i rebuild and alter to try different ideas

i have 2 sets of berg axles one never used one slightly used
make me an offer

i am on the waiting list for the new bully2s and can't wait

all part of the hobby

whatever you build now you can reuse many of the components on
other builds (wheels, tires, servos, electronics, chassis, etc...) and any
build now will add to your experteeze.

i would love for dlux to adopt me but that will never happen

dont discount the rs10 or the exceed crawlers. i loved my rs10
i gave it away to a beginer and i have been sorry since. i will
get another one, they are fun to build and rebuid with very little outlay
of money.

tried the gmade 1/8 axles - such beasts
even tried the xtm (they are a copy of an older rc4wd design)
axial flooded the market with the xr10 and others

you can buy a premade comp rig or you can have the fun (?) of building
your own

and btw i have seen delrin tubes for bullys in the forum

enjoy

[Dostradamas]

Delrin Bully tubes

Not the most current but I bet Dlux can hook you up.

[Calderwood]

Originally Posted by cabron

so is it the crawler or the driver that wins the comps???

It's a combination... with a little luck thrown in.

[Foxy42]

Originally Posted by redsawacs

I had a conversation with a manufacturer a few months back and the topic of discontinued platforms came up. What I got from them was some chatter regarding differences in opinion in the USRCCA circles that affected a manufacturer's ability to offer a competitive RTR or KIT version for those offering that type of platform let alone a product to meet current competition guild lines that would be around for any given time to make it cost effective to R&D. However, I was assured that they would look at offering another at some point in the future.

With that said, I don't think its a "the sport is dying" issue, I think its a "lets wait to see what happens before spending more money in production costs.

Now, I am a gumshoe at best in the crawler world and I certainly don't get into the politics of it all, but what I can relate this rambling to is, Stuff changes. In with the new and out with the old - as already mentioned, I think you just bought at the wrong time.

Making contact with the company before, they may have given you a heads up. I would certainly give them a call now and see what can me don't to get you where you want to be. After all, that's a lot of money!

Thanks for your thoughts, encouraging. I believe I was at least wise with my other purchases, I deliberately bought stuff that could be used with a berg axle if I ever changed. Only the axles were likely not the wisest buying choice, but I do like working with the underdog, so who knows.

[Foxy42]

Originally Posted by nigels_world

Dlux sells complete axles. Nothing hard about sourcing them.


More competition is coming...

Indeed, Dlux's shop is the one link I was missing in terms of axle supply. I'm a very experienced hobbyist and an IT professional with over 20 years experience, and in 3 months of searching and researching, I only came across a handful of mentions of Dlux, and was never able to find a site until today.

It seems that you either know about Dlux or you don't, and if you don't you'll be lucky to find them without someone telling you. Indeed now I know, it doesn't look hard at all to source them...

[Foxy42]

Originally Posted by cabron

so is it the crawler or the driver that wins the comps???



someone would buy your lightweight bullys no problem. many people will want spares.

i have a super bully that i rebuild and alter to try different ideas

i have 2 sets of berg axles one never used one slightly used
make me an offer

i am on the waiting list for the new bully2s and can't wait

all part of the hobby

whatever you build now you can reuse many of the components on
other builds (wheels, tires, servos, electronics, chassis, etc...) and any
build now will add to your experteeze.

i would love for dlux to adopt me but that will never happen

dont discount the rs10 or the exceed crawlers. i loved my rs10
i gave it away to a beginer and i have been sorry since. i will
get another one, they are fun to build and rebuid with very little outlay
of money.

tried the gmade 1/8 axles - such beasts
even tried the xtm (they are a copy of an older rc4wd design)
axial flooded the market with the xr10 and others

you can buy a premade comp rig or you can have the fun (?) of building
your own

and btw i have seen delrin tubes for bullys in the forum

enjoy

Encouraging post, I may get back to you on those axles. ;)

Basically, the only major thing I was missing was Dlux.

I plan to build the lightweight bullies, the other stuff I bought is all compatible with a berg axle too, so no major issues. I plan to see if Dlux can do me a delrin tube, I've been having difficulty finding those too.

As for the question mark of 'fun'...yes, building is more fun than driving for me, so yeh, definitely going to try my own builds. Thanks again for the post.

[pajey]

Dlux used to make delrin tubes for the bullies but stopped making them for both the 2.2 and super. But I'd give him a pm and just see whether he can help. He's a nice guy and the worst that can happen is he says he can't. Also pm sniper he's a machining guru. Some of his work is amazing.

[GRIMGREG]

The lack of easy to find crawlers for comp level is hurting the sport. How many people looking to get into crawling go hunting down a bunch of parts? They want to get a base unit they can use, like the Bully, or (at one time) the XR10. Why has scale crawling hit such a boom, you can find scalers in every LHS.

What got me into crawling, I saw a friend's crawler while on a 1:1 gtg. I came home and was able to buy one off the shelf at the LHS, for a reasonable price. If I wouldn't have been able to do that, I would probably never have got one.