What is the future of the USRCCA Super Class?

[Nova's Ark]

What is the future of the USRCCA Super Class? I ask because after a little over two years, C.I. is almost sold out of all Super Nova Foams. I have received a few emails, not many, asking if C.I. will be making more. I made the decision at the end of last year to invest money in new product development, NOT the Super Nova foam line.

However, I love the USRCCA Super Class. It was my favorite class to compete in. I have always been disappointed that the USRCCA never properly promoted the class. I resigned as a Rules Committee member this year. I spent four years on the committee. One of my suggestions in the past put forward inside the RC for the super class was:


Promote the Super class. Super size is what started rc crawling. The current day super class is light years beyond what those 2005 & 2006 trucks were. And yes, back then, they were trucks. They looked liked it and had the crawling limitations a bodied scale truck would have. What the Super Class of today has become, are stunning works of art. Krawlfreak, Turbofest, & SDS Customz are the top of the field in design, build quality and driving ability for the current day super class. Yet the Super Class is the least promoted class by the USRCCA and always has been. Super is an expert level class. Nearly every part on a super is custom made. But there in lies the problem. No parts availability or affordability for the average consumer making it an expert only class. Maybe the solution could be the creation of an Earned Entry Super Class, similar to the way the scale guys did the voting of the TTC trucks. In promoting the super class in this manner, it creates / draws the consumer / competitor in & makes them want to compete against the best in the world in the toughest class. I.E. The Super Class - the USRCCA Premier Class. Maybe not the most popular, not the most part support, but a pure builders and drivers class.


I am not looking to criticize anyone or organization. I need to know if C.I. needs to refocus it's effort on the Super Class, or give in. I'm also curious to know what the forum members and competitors have to say.

Please post your constructive thoughts & thank you

[T I N Y]

I think the problem with a lot of guys and the super class is it is a true "builders" class. A lot of them would just rather buy a "kit" or some mass produced parts and then "build" a rig. If I could still do the things I used to be able to do. I'd have another super for sure....
So I think the super class is slipping away...Slowly but surely...

[Tom G]

Originally Posted by T I N Y

I think the problem with a lot of guys and the super class is it is a true "builders" class. A lot of them would just rather buy a "kit" or some mass produced parts and then "build" a rig. If I could still do the things I used to be able to do. I'd have another super for sure....
So I think the super class is slipping away...Slowly but surely...

I agree hole hardheartedly. I got into the super class, because as a retired Machinist the fabrication of the trucks is the most challenging and enjoyable part of the hobby for me.

Tom G

[cboggs]

I hope it stays around as the premier crawling class, but unfortunately nobody is promoting the Supers and seems to me are doing more to kill off this awesome class. I see more promoting of the new scale, I mean trail class, than any other class. I'm not sure anymore what the future holds for the comp crawlers if no one is promoting the classes that we got and is more focused on getting into the scale scene. I would love to see vendors still supporting the Supers, if you don't then they are sure to die out.

[Rckcrwlr]

Originally Posted by Nova's Ark

The Super Class - the USRCCA....a pure builders[/I][/U]

Eddie,
Its great to throw this out there...I started in this hobby with a Benderized TXT back in 2005...I have to disagree with your comment above....even though it can be a builders class...a newbie could put together a pretty competitive rig with off the shelf items (Super Bully Axles, any of the chassis from our great vendors)...after that the other items are the same as 2.2 (motors, ESC, shocks, links, radio, wheels/tires, etc)
My feelings on getting "scale" into the comp scene are divided...
On one side I think its great. As you stated, even supers in the day had full clunky bodies and that is how we evolved into comp.
On the other side, I think it is being added out of desperation. There has been a significant exodus from comp to scale and I think part of it is the impression that you have to be a "builder" to run or be competitive.
People don't have the time and money to build a specialized rig. That pulls them to scale where they can run in their backyard.

I would love to see supers back, especially with the new lightweight movement.

Just my 2 cents

[The Violator]

Once cars went lighter super were bound to die. When everyone ran a 12 pound beast, it was easy to build something. The bully was a great axle, but HEAVY. The Berg Supers pulled some great lines, as long as they had multiple servos, custom made tires, super 300's, etc.

The cost and time involved with a super probably is double a 2.2, and when you start looking in the $1200 starting range for a 2.2 supers get out of control fast.


Plus I will say it again, the lack of any competitive RTR super (or 2.2 for that matter) killed the hobby. I think that is the point behind the new scale class. To try and let people see exactly what is going on with the "comp" scene and let them get a taste of it without having to drop thousands to get in the door.


For a new guy who went ahead and bought a car and gets to his first comp and cannot get through the first gate ( thanks Brian Parker for that one) it is pretty frustrating. Cars will fly , and beer drinking will commence ( among other things). It would be a deal breaker for most. Unless you have a group to do it with, they are going to give up. Supers suffered this fate. Even if they are where it started, unless there are several on the local level where you run, it sucks to be the only guy.


I would love to see RC4WD come out with a Bully2 super axles. Not that it will save the class, but it would be an option for someone. And that is what is needed at this point is options.

[ROWDY RACING]

^^^He gets it.

[makya]

It sounds like there are two very divided opinions on this:
1: that USRCCA needs to promote the class, that is why it's dying. The talent is there, the network to promote it is there, but it is dying off (I presume because of more promotion on the scale side)

2:the product suppliers just don't make the parts, and that is why t's dying. There isn't enough support to promote a dying class, even if it is the premier group.


To me, it seems like USRCCA, If they do indeed want to save the class, need to partner up with mfr's (that's "Manufacturers" ) and turn the Super class into a higher profile, sponsor driven group, to showcase what can be done with a crawler.

1: Try getting a Mfr. to donate Super class parts for some of the other class's bigger competitions, where there are competitors who would have the talent and drive to move up to Super.
2: Polished, soundtracked, Youtube promotion video of what the Supers can do.
3:Splash page photos- when comp promotion pages are being made, show the Supers as well as the other classes.

as an example: in 1:1, KOH is no longer Hammerkings' only promotion, but Ultra4 still thrives because of it. It stays that way because it is the high profile, no-holds-barred show that people want to see, even among the guys that compete in the series but not KOH. If you want an organization to thrive, it has to be promoted.


I do think that crawling is going to continue to lose some drivers to rock racing, much like 1:1 has, but crawling can also retain those and then some, with some cross-promotion and ingeuity.

[The Violator]

Originally Posted by makya

It sounds like there are two very divided opinions on this:
1: that USRCCA needs to promote the class, that is why it's dying. The talent is there, the network to promote it is there, but it is dying off (I presume because of more promotion on the scale side)

2:the product suppliers just don't make the parts, and that is why t's dying. There isn't enough support to promote a dying class, even if it is the premier group.


To me, it seems like USRCCA, If they do indeed want to save the class, need to partner up with mfr's (that's "Manufacturers" ) and turn the Super class into a higher profile, sponsor driven group, to showcase what can be done with a crawler.

1: Try getting a Mfr. to donate Super class parts for some of the other class's bigger competitions, where there are competitors who would have the talent and drive to move up to Super.
2: Polished, soundtracked, Youtube promotion video of what the Supers can do.

Problem is there are no suppliers. RC4WD would be the only one targeting the market, and I am not even sure of their support at this point. Granted there are a couple boutique axles available, but unless you know exactly who, what , when and where to get them your assed out. Plus having to figure out how to make 8-12 tires into 4, and spend countless hours figuring out exactly how to make it all work together. Anyone can buy a 2.2 and order a chassis, find someone who built one and follow their lead to get it ball parked in the set up.


But it all comes back to numbers. Even at their peak, there were always 2-3x the number of 2.2 vs supers at most events. More recently the supers number 1 to 10 2.2 entries. And seeing there is NO coverage of comp crawling in any magazines now that Losi and Axial have pulled away. Manufactures pay for advertisement in the magazines, and the magazines return the favor and cover events that paying advertisers sponsor. That is exactly how it works, and do not let anyone tell you otherwise. So unless RC4WD starts taking out full page adds touting the superbully axles, the magazines will never ever ever cover them.


Do you really think the RC magazines need to review a car everytime Traxxas changes the body on the slash 4x4 platform. They do if they want Traxxas to keep buying several pages in each issue.

[makya]

Originally Posted by The Violator

Problem is there are no suppliers. RC4WD would be the only one targeting the market, and I am not even sure of their support at this point. Granted there are a couple boutique axles available, but unless you know exactly who, what , when and where to get them your assed out. Plus having to figure out how to make 8-12 tires into 4, and spend countless hours figuring out exactly how to make it all work together. Anyone can buy a 2.2 and order a chassis, find someone who built one and follow their lead to get it ball parked in the set up.


But it all comes back to numbers. Even at their peak, there were always 2-3x the number of 2.2 vs supers at most events. More recently the supers number 1 to 10 2.2 entries. And seeing there is NO coverage of comp crawling in any magazines now that Losi and Axial have pulled away. Manufactures pay for advertisement in the magazines, and the magazines return the favor and cover events that paying advertisers sponsor. That is exactly how it works, and do not let anyone tell you otherwise. So unless RC4WD starts taking out full page adds touting the superbully axles, the magazines will never ever ever cover them.


Do you really think the RC magazines need to review a car everytime Traxxas changes the body on the slash 4x4 platform. They do if they want Traxxas to keep buying several pages in each issue.

I'll admit, I don't know much about Supers other than how cool they are, so I have to take your word for a lot of what's happening.

I don't know where the magazine ad thing came from, but I don't see that as a big market for comp guys.

If it's such an exclusive (and apparently reclusive) club, Isn't that the problem? It sounds like the competitors themselves need to do something then. make some parts available, or show how to get into Supers without spending a grand, or 6 months of weekends making parts.

One of the things that makes other types of rc'ing popular to larger numbers, is accessibility. Youtube, forums, facebook etc... all promote a "come and try it for yourself" mentality. I don't really see it working that way for a lot of crawling yet, in general (see the "why I don't go to comps" thread).

maybe there needs to be a shift in the way the organizations and clubs promote?

If all we do is point fingers, I don't see how that helps?

[Tgreer]

I don't think it is the sole responsibility of the USRCCA board to bring back the comp scene, but they do need to play a big part. Until a big company like axial, traxxas, or others offer a kit or rtr comp crawler, the comp scene will continue to die across the board, it's as simple as that. It's going to take effort from everyone that loves this sport to get into the manufactures pocket and get a kit or rtr rolling again. To bring more people into this sport, it needs more exposure beyond this forum. So, in order to save the supers we are going to have to save the entire comp scene. To bring in more people that will want to get crazy with an extreme totally 100% machined out of there garage custom super, they have to be hooked from a kit or rtr that they see sitting at there local LHS store or online advertising, otherwise they may never know such a sport exsits. Right now locally and nationally we have tons of new people on the scale scene, well, that's all they know there is because that's all you can buy or see at stores.

[Olle P]

I think you're all on to something.
Personally the Super Class feels a bit like Formula 1, but without the hype and glamour.
* Most parts (excluding electronics) are custom built (or custom modified).
* The parts (excluding electronics) are expensive due to this. Off the shelf parts, where available, are also manufactured and sold in small quantities only.
* It really seems to be an "Experts Only" class.

That said I really hope the class will survive.
More promotion and marketing should do the trick, but market it for what it is!
- Don't try to attract heaps of drivers, but a select few.
- Do attract lots of spectators.
- Try to add hype and glamour!

The big question is how to make up for the costs involved...
* F1 drivers typically don't spend that much money on their "hobby", but are paid tens or hundreds of thousand dollars per year to do it.
* The teams make money on sponsor promotions.
* Motor manufacturers put some of the costs on their R&D and marketing accounts.

[Erik D_lux]

I can count 4 (edit: 5 if you want to be technical) different types of RTR axles. Can they be hard to find? Yeah, for sure but they are there.

You can find a RTR super class crawler for $167.

As far as where the class is going? The whole entire comp scene and even scale scene from what I see is suffering. I think people are strapped for cash. 2.2p is in a serious hurt so why wouldn't super class be in the same boat?

My local scene wont support them. I think it has some to do with money but I think for the most part its that people dont want to or dont have the ability to put the effort needed into them.

On the National level, there is nothing more frustrating than the way Supers are treated IMO. With the exception of a couple comps, most have had the mentality that there are only 3 courses, no organization, maybe we will find judges for those courses and then on top of that, there is no recognition for the winners.

Lets put it this way..... what if we traded the way we treat Supers with the way we treat 2.2p class? Lets do 5 super class courses on Saturdays, be totally organized about it, do trophies and then we will also do 2.2p on sunday, who knows who is setting up the course or judging and then when its all done lets not do a proper ceremony for the winners.

Supers may not rise too quickly in that scenario but how quick would you also kill the 2.2p class?

If you treat the super class like an unwanted child its going to feel like an unwanted child.

[makya]

Originally Posted by Erik D_lux

You can find a RTR super class crawler for $167.

wait,wat?

WHAT???

don't do that to me Erik Tell me, don't tease me.

If that's true, (although I'm sure it'll be a money pit) it would make it easier for guys to get into supers, wouldn't it?

EDIT: Nevermind, I just realized you were talking about the Exceed Mad Torque.

[Erik D_lux]

Originally Posted by makya

EDIT: Nevermind, I just realized you were talking about the Exceed Mad Torque.

Yep, just venture in the super section and you will see that a lot of people are having a blast with those cheap cars. Most of the guys that run them are just doing home brew fab so from the looks, it is cheap, if you want, you can all out and build a top of the line super with the gear boxes also.

[Frankenwheely]

Originally Posted by Erik D_lux

As far as where the class is going? The whole entire comp scene and even scale scene from what I see is suffering. I think people are strapped for cash. 2.2p is in a serious hurt so why wouldn't super class be in the same boat?

My local scene wont support them. I think it has some to do with money but I think for the most part its that people dont want to or dont have the ability to put the effort needed into them.

On the National level, there is nothing more frustrating than the way Supers are treated IMO. With the exception of a couple comps, most have had the mentality that there are only 3 courses, no organization, maybe we will find judges for those courses and then on top of that, there is no recognition for the winners.

Lets put it this way..... what if we traded the way we treat Supers with the way we treat 2.2p class? Lets do 5 super class courses on Saturdays, be totally organized about it, do trophies and then we will also do 2.2p on sunday, who knows who is setting up the course or judging and then when its all done lets not do a proper ceremony for the winners.

Supers may not rise too quickly in that scenario but how quick would you also kill the 2.2p class?

If you treat the super class like an unwanted child its going to feel like an unwanted child.

The main point seems to be money. All these crawlers/scalers take money. But what I do believe is what you said as in there is lack of love to run these things in competition. A guy would rather buy a scaler at say a 1/4 of the price of a good super, to go run with his friends then having that super sitting there only being run every once and awhile. I don't think the comp day change would help, seeing the 2.2p is pretty much the standard on which all the other classes were based from. (1.9 and super)

[ROWDY RACING]

Originally Posted by Frankenwheely

seeing the 2.2p is pretty much the standard on which all the other classes were based from. (1.9 and super)

Negative.

[Frankenwheely]

Originally Posted by ROWDY RACING

Negative.

Elaborate?

[T I N Y]

Originally Posted by Frankenwheely

The main point seems to be money. All these crawlers/scalers take money. But what I do believe is what you said as in there is lack of love to run these things in competition. A guy would rather buy a scaler at say a 1/4 of the price of a good super, to go run with his friends then having that super sitting there only being run every once and awhile. I don't think the comp day change would help, seeing the 2.2p is pretty much the standard on which all the other classes were based from. (1.9 and super)

See I think A comp day change would put it in perspective. If the super class was advertised, pushed, and well organized as the 2.2 class is at most comps. It would be a world of difference. The 2.2 class has more money put into it's part of the comp itself then the supers part. So if we ran two or three super courses in one day and only one 2.2 course. After a couple comps you'd see a lot more supers because people want to run. So they will build or buy what they need to run. The 2.2 class blew up and took over everything for a while.Just like now the G6's are getting a lot of attention now. But remember the supers are what started crawling to begin with. If it wasn't for supers there would be no other classes. I think there needs to be fair coverage of all classes. Not just the ones whose sponsor is the main type of truck ran..... And if they do cover all the classes. Give the winners their due. Include them in on the awards given for all the other classes. But we all came from supers weather we like it or not.If it weren't for a super we wouldn't be in this part of the hobby.

[Frankenwheely]

Originally Posted by T I N Y

See I think A comp day change would put it in perspective. If the super class was advertised, pushed, and well organized as the 2.2 class is at most comps. It would be a world of difference. The 2.2 class has more money put into it's part of the comp itself then the supers part. So if we ran two or three super courses in one day and only one 2.2 course. After a couple comps you'd see a lot more supers because people want to run. So they will build or buy what they need to run. The 2.2 class blew up and took over everything for a while.Just like now the G6's are getting a lot of attention now. But remember the supers are what started crawling to begin with. If it wasn't for supers there would be no other classes. I think there needs to be fair coverage of all classes. Not just the ones whose sponsor is the main type of truck ran..... And if they do cover all the classes. Give the winners their due. Include them in on the awards given for all the other classes. But we all came from supers weather we like it or not.If it weren't for a super we wouldn't be in this part of the hobby.

True. It's all in what is the masses enjoy or relate to. 2.2p became sort of the main class. (EDIT: Into that's what I meant to say in which Rowdy quoted to me.)
I think Supers should be a more organized class when it comes to the major comps. Maybe move it Fridays.... I think the thing that also hinders this class as well as 1.9 is that they are ran on Sunday, which has been stated. For most people that is the travel day to get back home. So I can see why it has been pushed by the way side year after year.