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Old 06-06-2015, 01:37 AM   #1
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Default Axles shake when turning??

Hi, I just installed a vanquish stage 1 kit, and rc4wd heavy duty cvd's on my scx10. At full steer (about 2 cm from the tire touching the shock), the axles start to shake, and its not only when its driving on the ground, its also when I'm holding it. Im not sure but i think the cvd's might be binding? But thats why i upgraded the cvd's in the first place... so anyone have any idea if the cvd's are binding or something else? and also, if they're binding, what cvd's have better radius than the rc4wd's 50 degrees?

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Old 06-06-2015, 01:45 AM   #2
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Default Re: Axles shake when turning??

Yep, they're binding.
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Old 06-06-2015, 02:40 AM   #3
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Default Re: Axles shake when turning??

Universals have more potential steering angle than CVDs...but they pulsate slow fast slow fast the further they are angled. Nature of the beast. Not really a problem at low speeds or in the loose stuff. Some call it "chugging" which I imagine is a lot better than binding.
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Old 06-06-2015, 02:43 AM   #4
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Default Re: Axles shake when turning??

thanks guys, took the axle apart to confirm there wasn't something else going wrong, and they're certainly binding. The question now is what universals/cvds will give me the best angle (better than the current 50 degrees with the rc4wd ones), and also what are the pros and cons of universals compared to cvd's?
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Old 06-06-2015, 02:54 AM   #5
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Default Re: Axles shake when turning??

Comp Crawlers are going to use Universals to get something close to 70 degrees of throw. But think about how they use that...usually very slow or even at rest to shimmy around on the rock to get the line right. Crazy angle like that motoring along at a good clip will put a lot of stress on the whole front drive assembly. CVDs are smoother right up until they start to bind. Then they are liable to blow out.

If you do the XR mod to your axle you can use XR10 Universals which are pretty stout. I've broken a few...but not from turning...from landing a jump on one wheel throttle wide open...not planned of course. Otherwise they hold up well to big power.

There's also the "short" XR mod...which means modding the XR10 Universals by cutting them down and grinding new flats on the shaft. That's if you do not want a wider track.

It's possible to keep the track around 11" with the XR Mod...but anything less is problematic with most wheels. Duuuuuude makes custom wheels so he could probably tweak the offset to below 11".
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Old 06-06-2015, 08:07 AM   #6
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Default Re: Axles shake when turning??

is there a particular brand that anyone would recommend, and what are others views on universals vs cvds?
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Old 06-06-2015, 08:09 AM   #7
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Default Re: Axles shake when turning??

btw i use my truck for mainly bashing, a little bit of crawling, some trail running etc,. It runs a 27t motor with stock gearing, so its not exactly a race car, bt not as slow as it could be.
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Old 06-06-2015, 09:31 AM   #8
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Default Re: Axles shake when turning??

I prefer uni's over cvd's when I have a choice. Much tougher, better steering, and they won't spit the pins out. As was mentioned, you do have to be a bit careful at speed so that you don't force them past their happy place, but if you do it right, you can do a little grinding on them for added clearance and the arm on the knuckle will hit the axle case giving you a positive stop so that will never happen.

As MS mentioned, they do increase track width, so you have to take that into consideration if you plan to attend comps where they care about that sort of thing.

Axial is the only one that makes universals IIRC.

I've used cvd's from Axial, Integy, and MIP. All of them at one point or another spit their pins out at least once, or snapped in half from the loads places upon them.
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Old 06-06-2015, 09:35 AM   #9
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Default Re: Axles shake when turning??

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainStorm View Post
It's possible to keep the track around 11" with the XR Mod...but anything less is problematic with most wheels. Duuuuuude makes custom wheels so he could probably tweak the offset to below 11".
Easily done. The inner track width on my C2 legal Wraith with xr modded scx axles is 6 3/4" using a set of custom offset wheels. A set with full offset and the smallest hub you could get would probably put them at less than 6".
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Old 06-06-2015, 03:52 PM   #10
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Default Re: Axles shake when turning??

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Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude View Post
Easily done. The inner track width on my C2 legal Wraith with xr modded scx axles is 6 3/4" using a set of custom offset wheels. A set with full offset and the smallest hub you could get would probably put them at less than 6".
And I'll add a 7th place at Disney first time out of the gate with that rig says it works.
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Old 06-06-2015, 06:08 PM   #11
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Default Re: Axles shake when turning??

I was as surprised as anyone that I/it finished so well. Me having not comped in 3-4 years, and it never really tested or tuned with the new chassis setup.
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Old 06-06-2015, 06:18 PM   #12
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Default Re: Axles shake when turning??

I don't do any comps with my scx10 so i don't mind if it has a slightly wide track, however if these are the universals you were talking about --> Axial Racing - AX10 Scorpion Universal Set (2pcs), then it says they only have 42 degrees of steering, when my rc4wd cvd's have 50...?
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Old 06-06-2015, 07:24 PM   #13
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Default Axles shake when turning??

Those say universals but theyre actually cvds i believe they were referring to the axial xr10 universals used in the xr10 mod; whichcan provide upward of 50* when modded, and around 45* in stock form.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin..._nRRoCOGrw_wcB


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Old 06-06-2015, 08:31 PM   #14
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Default Re: Axles shake when turning??

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainStorm View Post
Comp Crawlers are going to use Universals to get something close to 70 degrees of throw. But think about how they use that...usually very slow or even at rest to shimmy around on the rock to get the line right. Crazy angle like that motoring along at a good clip will put a lot of stress on the whole front drive assembly. CVDs are smoother right up until they start to bind. Then they are liable to blow out.

If you do the XR mod to your axle you can use XR10 Universals which are pretty stout. I've broken a few...but not from turning...from landing a jump on one wheel throttle wide open...not planned of course. Otherwise they hold up well to big power.

There's also the "short" XR mod...which means modding the XR10 Universals by cutting them down and grinding new flats on the shaft. That's if you do not want a wider track.

It's possible to keep the track around 11" with the XR Mod...but anything less is problematic with most wheels. Duuuuuude makes custom wheels so he could probably tweak the offset to below 11".
BmachineRC does "true width" XR tubes, for modded front scx axle's..


I used my Rc4wd scale wheels, as I did before.. Tho, they have a full width offset.
My track width is a little over 9"...

I have since switched to modded XR uni's, over the VP vvd's..
More steering, durability, and smoothness!
My scx runs brushless and 4s..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captainkickass View Post
Those say universals but theyre actually cvds i believe they were referring to the axial xr10 universals used in the xr10 mod; whichcan provide upward of 50* when modded, and around 45* in stock form.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin..._nRRoCOGrw_wcB


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Got the part right...

Maybe the number's.. But... 50 "modded" is a little shy, depending on the term "modded".

If you Only mod the outside of the ears, 50 Might be right.. Or close..

A Modded set of XR uni's will give you full clearance steering that will max out all available steering, no matter how your steering is set up.

My 1.9(8" track width), class 2(9.25" track width), and my Sexo.. (I'll explain the Sexo in a minute)


As you can see, Modded XR uni's can out do the servo and the steering links.
70 is pretty impossible. (Let me clear that up) 70 of steering is pretty unusable.. However, the uni's Will spin smooth, if you could set your rig up to steer 70..

On to the Sexo... Wraith drive train, Pro4 HD on 4s(30mph).. I've pulled broken vvd's and uni's out of this rig.. All have been at the hex pin, on the stub shaft. Like MS said, from landing on one wheel full throttle, or jumping rocks, launching off cliffs, using as a beater.. I run VP XR knucks on this rig, making use of the built in steering stops. (For hard hits while steering) keeps the wheel from folding over..

The scx is running 20mph and gets some beating, but not like the Sexo.. I have yet to have a problem with a uni.

If your going to keep the stage 1 scx kit, I recommend VP vvd's. They are stout, smoother steering at full lock, and VP stands behind there product if you happen to break one!

If not, the narrow XR mod is something to look into.. It cost's a little more for the parts, but will last you longer.. IMO and from my experience..
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Old 06-06-2015, 09:51 PM   #15
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Default Re: Axles shake when turning??

honestly I'm kind of confused now...

I just pulled the wheels off to have a look. Put it on a stand, ran it full speed, full turn (with the wheels off, so even further than it was before), it started to shake as before, but then after a while it started to smooth out and then no shaking. I assumed the cvd's must've worn in or something because there was a little bit of metal shavings on the bench. The bit confusing me is when I put my wheels back on, the shaking came back. And no, there isn't any wheel/tire rub.

So my question; can anyone tell me why this is happening or if i need new cvd's/universals, simply which ones to get or to do to them?
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Old 06-06-2015, 11:05 PM   #16
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Default Re: Axles shake when turning??

You can diagnose wear with a sharpie and some time. Take the CVDs out and apart and coat every surface with sharpie marker and reinstall and run them then take them apart again and you'll see any wear marks clearly. That's an extreme way to go about it. Or you could just eyeball them and see if anything looks hinky and if not run them till they break.

If you hate waiting on parts order some spares now.
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Old 06-06-2015, 11:13 PM   #17
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Default Re: Axles shake when turning??

Quote:
Originally Posted by winnerone23 View Post
70 is pretty impossible. (Let me clear that up) 70 of steering is pretty unusable.. However, the uni's Will spin smooth, if you could set your rig up to steer 70..
I agree completely. Actual angle is going to depend on the housing, knuckles and C hubs, arms, linkages, and amount of caster. Even with the same parts different caster can limit throw and what the tie rod has to clear also limits throw. From my experience, the classic Wraith Knuckles and C Hubs on an AX10 or AR60 or SCX10 housing are capable of the most steering angle of any set up I have seen...more than an XR10 or B2 by a few degrees. But I know you comp guys are always coming up with better set ups so that may have changed. I do know the SCX10 knuckles and C Hubs really limit throw. VP sells some Zero Ackerman SCX10 knuckles that look capable and have long arms. The "scale" Wraith knuckles and C hubs limit throw compared to the "classic" ones but for bashing around like I do I think they are better. I can run unmodified XR10 Universals in them and get lock to lock without binding the Unis. It's enough steering to do some finicky crawling...but not so much I blow up the front end hooning around.
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Old 06-06-2015, 11:38 PM   #18
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Default Re: Axles shake when turning??

the wearing isn't whats worrying me, its just the binding when it turns. I kinda just want some better steering, otherwise i feel the stage 1 kit was almost a waste.
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Old 06-06-2015, 11:38 PM   #19
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Default Re: Axles shake when turning??

oh and does anyone know how much steering degree xr10 universals would make? and if they make more than 50 degrees, how would i make them fit?
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Old 06-06-2015, 11:51 PM   #20
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Default Re: Axles shake when turning??

There are two writeups that i know of concerning the xr mod. Do some searching in the ax10 and scx10 sections.
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