Scale vs comp suspension

[msrace]

Yes, but would I still get them if they were in the truck, not on the wraith? I don't carry my high lift or my spare when I'm wheeling my full size crawler and that is what we are trying to do, copy the full size right?

[msrace]

I don't mean to derail this thread, but it's a big pet peave of mine when people think we actually carry a lot of those things while competing. Typically during a full size crawling event, the spotter carries a toolbag into the course and leaves it on the ground so he can get to it for minor repairs during the run if needed. NOTHING is left on the rig. So why are scale points awarded when this isn't how it works in the real world?

[Turtlejon]

Originally Posted by msrace

This is such a big statement. In the full size world, there are guys that overbuild there rigs only to run moderate trails with ease and think they are some kind of hero, while others continue to improve their rigs to try and conquer the impossible. Many people wouldn't even consider what many of my club does as even possible.

Yeah, fully! I travel all over the country for my job and I roll with several different groups in different regions. The terrain is so vastly different; what would be a huge boulder field in the middle of the country is just another back yard in Arizona or Utah. There are folks who called my 2.2s training wheels, and I understand that what I built that rig for is a LOT different than where their trail club goes on weekends.
It's all perspective, decrease performance or attempt more difficult terrain, either way the perceived challenge increases. I would be bored now from things that were challenging 3 or 4 years ago. New and exciting challenges are what keep me motivated and interested.

[micro racer]

Originally Posted by msrace

I don't mean to derail this thread, but it's a big pet peave of mine when people think we actually carry a lot of those things while competing. Typically during a full size crawling event, the spotter carries a toolbag into the course and leaves it on the ground so he can get to it for minor repairs during the run if needed. NOTHING is left on the rig. So why are scale points awarded when this isn't how it works in the real world?

You get points because you are potentially decreasing performance (raising the crnter of gravity) by adding scale accessories. Don't want the points, don't put stuff on your truck.

[Turtlejon]

On another note, I think the origins of the carrying of tools and stuff is more from G6 and casual driving. I know when I'm out in the desert, almost every 4x4 I see out there has a spare, a high lift, tools, etc. Its an awfully long walk back sometimes. I understand your peave when it comes to comps, though. I never thought about it that way, thanks!

[micro racer]

Also, unless you drive class 3 or something similar, a daily driver or expedition rig is likely to have a bunch of recovery items, repair tools, et cetera anyway because they often go out alone or in small groups.

[C*H*U*D]

Originally Posted by msrace

I don't mean to derail this thread, but it's a big pet peave of mine when people think we actually carry a lot of those things while competing. Typically during a full size crawling event, the spotter carries a toolbag into the course and leaves it on the ground so he can get to it for minor repairs during the run if needed. NOTHING is left on the rig. So why are scale points awarded when this isn't how it works in the real world?

I think you're comparing apples to oranges. RC Comp Crawlers don't carry anything either. I've never had a spotter carrying my tools when trail driving in the real world, so my RC scaler carries what I would in my real world truck.

Hope that makes sense.

[msrace]

Most of my full size club falls in somewhere between class 3 and class 4. There was a club comp last month at Rausch Creek that we didn't go to cause we didn't have enough class 1 and 2 rigs to fill a team. I would agree completely if the comp was a g6 but disagree completely if it's like a werock or RcRocs style comp.

[gottorque]

I could care less about all the little scale accessories, details or interiors. Falls off, raises COG and just more crap to deal with. Ive seen some rigs with yard sales in their roof racks. For me though....performance>form

Case in point....my wraith kinda sorta resembles an Ultra 4 car. As far as scale crap it has a spare and radiator/fans, nothing else. So kinda backing up msrace's thoughts on real competition rigs, yea Ultra 4 needs to carry more stuff than a W.E. Rock buggy but its just different disciplines in off road racing. The tools (the cars used) are very specialized and wouldn't necessarily do the best in each others playing field. Granted, the early days of KOH people ran rock buggies but over time they evolved to better handle race conditions.

As for points for scale stuff, it is just another form of competing. Some are super into it and compete in those events with crazy scale rigs and some are not. Thats not a bad thing as even in RC crawling, there are many little niche forms of it.

[msrace]

TLR, I hope you don't mind that this thread has gone a few different directions, but I think it's great seeing some of the different opinions on this whole general topic.

[Turtlejon]

Originally Posted by gottorque

Ive seen some rigs with yard sales in their roof racks.

Awesome!!!!!

[C*H*U*D]

Tim can explain all this better than I can, but SORRCA is not G6. It's also not comp crawling. Yes they are "Scale Competitions", but they evolved out of what we now call Comp Crawlers.

If you want to compete in RC the same as you do in your club, check out some of the Comp Sections here on RCC. There's more out there than just SORRCA, G6 and scalers.

Personally I prefer the old school Comp Crawlers, that did in fact look like their full size counterparts, but those days are all but over.

[micro racer]

I think that we are all comparing different vehicles. Yes, Ultra 4 rigs generally have a support team that carries their junk, same as many competitive 1:1 rock crawlers. However, like I mentioned, weekend warrior or expedition vehicles often need to be their own support team.

Either way, every rig should be built how each person thinks it should be. There is no wrong way... Except what you find in the Facebook Fails thread, those are wrong.

[msrace]

My buddies RcRocs comp rig

My wraith


That's the type of rig my wraith is based on.

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[WHITE-TRASH]

Originally Posted by C*H*U*D

Do you mean performing scale or performing like a comp truck?

I understand looking the part but I also like them to perform in a scale fashion as well. I'm not a fan of multiple scale items, but I admit that I did it too for the points.

I want my Toyota scaler to perform well, but not to the extent of it being unrealistic. Performing like a comp truck would just ruin the driving experience in my opinion.

I see a whole lot of scale rigs that look like what would be a capable rig in the 1:1 world that doesn't perform like one. They seem to be so caught up in "being scale" in the looks department that the performance is secondary at best. If they look like a typical trail jeep on 37's but perform like a stock samurai on snow tires what's the point?

My last 1:1 wheeler was on 44's and 1 ton axles with a fire breathing ( ) 22re/aw4/231 crawl box feeding an atlas II transfer case. So what is scale to me is crazy to a lot of people.

Originally Posted by Turtlejon

All the fun is in the struggle!!!
And inversely, tougher challenges require better performance! From both truck and driver!
There's no substitute for skill!

Yup build big and find tougher challenges. Not everyone looks for the easiest route and wants to pull cable. I'll destroy my rig before I give up.

Originally Posted by msrace

This is such a big statement. In the full size world, there are guys that overbuild there rigs only to run moderate trails with ease and think they are some kind of hero, while others continue to improve their rigs to try and conquer the impossible. Many people wouldn't even consider what many of my club does as even possible.

Exactly. It seems a lot of scaler nerds have never owned a 1:1 wheeler so they really don't have a good knowledge base to draw off of.

Originally Posted by C*H*U*D

Personally I prefer the old school Comp Crawlers, that did in fact look like their full size counterparts, but those days are all but over.

Me too. MOA does absolutely nothing for me. I enjoy watching someone that really knows how to run one climb some crazy crap but that's about it.

All my rigs somewhat resemble a 1:1 rig. I'll take getting hung up on the body once in awhile in trade for my rig looking like something. Not everyone wants to drive chainlink.

[War Pig]

The great thing is, there are LOTS of options these days. Go try all of them and decide which ones you like best!

[351Beno]

Comp and scale rig are way to different to generalize and say its just a body that separates them. Sure you can mix them but at a point it's gonna go one way or the other. The challenge both bring is awesome and the best part to me is to just keep trying to build it better. But I am lucky to have woods and miles of rock wall that are 100+ years old so I don't get bored with either.

[Duuuuuuuude]

It's not a scale rig until you've got either an AK or AR zip tied to the cage.

[msrace]

Doesn't get much closer to scale than playing follow the leader with these guys



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[Dostradamas]

Originally Posted by TLR_junkie

Simply put, I was asking because I just wanted to understand how they both work and the differences. I am very new to "crawling" and havnt had the ability to see any real comp crawlers in person as of yet. Not that it matters I guess. I decided to pick up a"scale" truck because all the traveling from racing off road was burning me out.

I just like to learn new shit...

Drive, drive, drive. I fell into buying way more than my style liked. Now that you have a truck drive the pee out of it. You will quickly learn the attributes you desire.

Enjoy, crawling has made me an rc lifer