Hydro steer made easy

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by ColquittCustom405

So is force of the steering determined by the strength of the Servo? I.E. If I had a Traxxas 2205 VS a HiTec 5995.

Yup. The system can be made to multiply force through different size cylinders and such but all that aside...the harder you can push on the master cylinder the more force there will be at the wheels.

[HndsWthtShdws]

I dont see any mechanical advantage happening here. The servo moves the same amount it always has and the trucks steers they same amount it always has. I realize that the master cylinders have a smaller diameter than the slave cylinder but they are also longer, when you go to rig the masters to your servo you are going to have to use a longer servo horn then you would have to use on the axle and lose the advantage right there.

The only way to gain any performance here is to mod the servo for more rotation then it has now, it will make the steering slower then normal but you will have more torque.

[_BEN_]

Originally Posted by HndsWthtShdws

I don't see any mechanical advantage happening here.

I agree with what you are saying. If the throw is one to one there will be no gain or loss (theoretically) in torque.

But for scale purposes I think it is a great idea.

If he did want to multiply the torque of the servo the master cylinders would have to have a longer throw and move much less volume per an inch of throw than the slave on the axle.

He could also uncomplicate things by making a master cylinder that is similar to the slave, doing away with the two masters.

[CCFBERG]

Originally Posted by _BEN_

Nice work.

I noticed that you have not attached the ram to the knuckles.
You don't have much space for links so it may be tricky to get the extra link in there.

Ya I should have posted pics of the links also, I have that done as well but for some reason did the video without it conected

[WheelChair]

Does not look like much mechanical advantage....

Its cool, but HOW MUCH POWER???

[Double J]

Verry nice set up.

how do/did you determine the lenght of each part to get the correct amout of pressure to give the adiquate amount of throw. Is there any mathmatical equations other that the amount of force that you posted.

If I used a shorter, fatter tube for the Master you wouldn't need as much throw on the servo correct, but still be able to produce enough power for full steering.

Now how do I do the math to figure out what size master cylindar I have to make to produce enough force with the amount of throw a servo has?

Hope that made sense?

[cembom]

I think he means the extra stroke of the master cyliners act as a preload or extra push at full lock. Anyways that is a great Idea. The set up he has there wouldnt cost that much but the engineering and the tuning might be tedious and I dont think there is much more gain from it. Also did someone delete a bunch of posts because it seems as if your talking to yourself lol.

[cembom]

I was wondering the same thing. I think the main thing would be how much fluid in them. Like Have atleast even amounts. But I think having the masters hold a bit more might give that mechanical advantage back.

[Double J]

Originally Posted by cembom

I dont think there is much more gain from it.

Drive a car with no power steering lately?

I believe there is a lot to gain from a nicely or better yet Correctly set up hydrolics.

[4link4eva]

Originally Posted by Double J

Drive a car with no power steering lately?

I believe there is a lot to gain from a nicely or better yet Correctly set up hydrolics.

He means from this setup.

I don't think CCFBERG was looking for a mechanical advantage from his Hydraulic steering, he did it for the same reason I got into crawling:

To prove that he could.

I for one, think it looks pretty damn trick!

[run2jeepn]

Hook up four of those in place of Shocks... lol

Looks hella Cool... How much power does that set up have? I really don't see the huge advantage really. You have to mount a servo, Cylinder, hose and what ever else. Depending on the Rig and the weight need to make it work. My guess the Bigger/Heavier the rig the more advantage it would have..

Keep this stuff coming.... I my 1/6th Scale Rig needs these Set up... I'll be talking with you about this very Soon.

[balang_479]

Seriously amazing what you have achieved...

any stats on the power compared to the servo?

[some_guy]

Originally Posted by CCFBERG

Hey Big Mike

Thanks for the comments man I appreciate them!

Ya its not all that complex of a system pretty simple infact and it doesnt suprise me that you came up with the same idea, there seems to be allot of talent on this forum and Id like to see more people post things like this! I understand the fact that some dont have the machinery to do some of this kind of stuff. Ive spent alot of time and money on that kind of stuff and im just fortunate to have a wife that alows me to buy what I say I need. She actualy worked a second job to help build the shop that I have now!

Now as far as correcting you on the mechanical advantage thing, I wont correct you because I am a jack of all trades and a master of only some ha ha and I havent mastered hydraulics yet I just understand a great deal about them and deal with them in my work. So here goes with the tech stuff strait from the book k!

"Applying a force of 2 lbs on the piston in the smaller cyclender would lift a wieght of 100 lbs supported on a piston in the larger cylinder."

"applying a force of 2 lbs on the piston (refering to a picture) in the smaller cylinder produces a circuit pressure of 2 psi because the force is applied to a sectional area of 1 sq in."

"the circuit potential is 2 psi and because this acts on a sectional area of 50 sq in it can raise 100 lbs"

"accordingly, if a force of 10 lbs was to be applied to the smaller piston, the resulting circuit pressure would be 10 psi and the circuit would have the potential to raise a wieght of 500 lbs"

" So if we wanted to calculate the force exerted by a cylindrical ram (steering actuator) we would use the following formula:

Force exerted (servo ) = hydraulic pressure (psi) x cylindrical area ( diameter squared x 0.7854)

even simply put: 100 pounds of force on a 1 in piston produces 100 psi acting on a 2 in piston is 200 pounds of force applied to what you are trying to move ( like a steering knuckle) there for mechanical or hydraulic advantage!

its exactly like a hydraulic clutch setup in a car, if you look at the master cyl its smaller than the slave pushing on the clutch to make it easier on your leg if not you leg would get tired real fast.

Hope that helps man!

if you can acheive that much gain

when are you going to start selling and how much
because i would buy one right now

[CCFBERG]

Originally Posted by _BEN_

I agree with what you are saying. If the throw is one to one there will be no gain or loss (theoretically) in torque.

But for scale purposes I think it is a great idea.

If he did want to multiply the torque of the servo the master cylinders would have to have a longer throw and move much less volume per an inch of throw than the slave on the axle.

He could also uncomplicate things by making a master cylinder that is similar to the slave, doing away with the two masters.

Thats exactly what I did...........? I guess I dont understand what your saying. The master cyl are a smaller diameter by a long shot guess the pics must not show that or something or again I just dont understand?

also yes you are right on master cyl would be more practical and is in work and will most likely be done tonight.

[CCFBERG]

Originally Posted by cembom

I was wondering the same thing. I think the main thing would be how much fluid in them. Like Have atleast even amounts. But I think having the masters hold a bit more might give that mechanical advantage back.

Exactly correct!!!!!!

[CCFBERG]

if we wanted to calculate the force exerted by a cylindrical ram (steering actuator) we would use the following formula:

Force exerted (servo ) = hydraulic pressure (psi) x cylindrical area ( diameter squared x 0.7854)

even simply put: 100 pounds of force on a 1 in piston produces 100 psi acting on a 2 in piston is 200 pounds of force applied to what you are trying to move ( like a steering knuckle) there for mechanical or hydraulic advantage!


Also guys I did do this because I was told that it couldnt be done! At the same time I kept in mind the facts about the servo horn length and every other thing.

I forget who it was that said it but someone said there would be much to gain from a better or properly set up system. ????

What isnt properly set up you saw the video right? It works correct! I posted this not for personal gain but to show all those people out there that it can be done and yes when the servo is set up correctly YOU WILL GAIN MECHANICAL ADVANTAGE! Its very simple read the equasion. Actualy hear is a pic strait from the hydraulics section of a book called Heavy Duty Truck Systems 4th Edition:

[CCFBERG]

So basicaly the servo I tested it with is rated at 148 inoz so just to keep it simple :
148 x 1 sq in piston (master cyl) = 148 x 2 sq in piston (slave) =296 inoz of linear motion.

Whats a servo rated at 300 inoz cost now? about $250???? My way 20 bucks for the TLT shocks on ebay! or $40 if you include the fittings.

You know both ways are correct and fine in my mind, I wont knock guys with servo's on thier axles and I wont say my way is the best way I just wanted to introduce something new that doesnt requir a pump or $800 (no disrespect Jason if you happen to read this)!!!! your **** is way cool and it inspired me to keep working on this months ago!!! But if you have the talent to do things other than type........tear it up in your shop and lets see it .......lets make this the coolest thing ever together.

[KRAWLR4life]

Originally Posted by CCFBERG

So basicaly the servo I tested it with is rated at 148 inoz so just to keep it simple :
148 x 1 sq in piston (master cyl) = 148 x 2 sq in piston (slave) =296 inoz of linear motion.

Whats a servo rated at 300 inoz cost now? about $250???? My way 20 bucks for the TLT shocks on ebay! or $40 if you include the fittings.

You know both ways are correct and fine in my mind, I wont knock guys with servo's on thier axles and I wont say my way is the best way I just wanted to introduce something new that doesnt requir a pump or $800 (no disrespect Jason if you happen to read this)!!!! your **** is way cool and it inspired me to keep working on this months ago!!! But if you have the talent to do things other than type........tear it up in your shop and lets see it .......lets make this the coolest thing ever together.

No need to explain man... I LIKE IT
Get it working, Id like to see how it turns out!
~John

[run2jeepn]

A 300oz Plus servo costs about $115...For a Standard Size Servo.. A 1/4 Scale Servo with over 300oz is $30 bucks.....

[Double J]

Originally Posted by CCFBERG

I forget who it was that said it but someone said there would be much to gain from a better or properly set up system. ????

What isnt properly set up you saw the video right? It works correct!

I said that just to generalize. NOT meaning that you didn't set it up correctly. But I kept seeing people that they see no gain in a hydro set up. Sorry if it came out wrong.


by the looks of the pics and with out doing any of the math. I'd need a smaller cylidar with a larger slave to create adiquate force.

Lets say for space saving purposes, If I needed the master cylindar to be shorter, would it matter if it was "fatter"?
It wouldn't work as correctly because the fatter the master the less amount of PSI it'd create?? becuase of the area.. OR could I simply adjust the hose or output of the master to creat the correct PSI??

I'm not trying to sound ignorant, just wanting to learn.

Thanks