Help with a Scale Top Truck Challenge Event

[Tommy R]

(I had this posted in another category, but I don't think it was the best choice so I'm posting it here now.)


Hey y'all,

I'm in the process of setting up a TTC-type event and need some guidance. It won't be modeled exactly after the Four Wheeler magazine TTC, but it will have some similarities. Here's the rundown... Our region in Texas has two scale classes for comps. The "Daily Driver" class is more moderate rigs, while the "Trail" class is geared more toward buggies/truggies/etc. All are 1.9s. What I want to do is have a Scaler Truck Challenge (STC, if you will) where we take our scalers and compete in a variety of events.

Events will likely include:
mud bog
truck/sled pull
obstacle course/mini Rubicon
hill climb
rock race (likely a time trial)

The goal would be to have the event be completed entirely in one day so no one will need to worry about lodging if they're traveling. I want this first event to be pretty simple, which is why we're keeping our current scale rules to divide the classes up. Scoring would be based on time required to complete the event/course (fastest wins), followed by distance achieved. Each event would likely be weighted equally.

What I'm looking for is advice from those of you who've hosted or attending these types of events for RC trucks, either scale or not. Let's assume we have facilities/manpower to make courses for all of the above events. Are there any that are overrated or too much hassle to worry about? Likewise, are there any events not listed that are a "must have"? I want this to be fun to compete in, but also fun for the spectators. Do any of these events take a lot of time to run? Are any particularly quick to run?

Are there any "gotchas" we should be aware of? For example, I realize we may need to truck in lots of water for the mud bog since it'll likely be dry wherever we host the event. That could be a pain in the butt! So what did you learn from participating in these events that you think we may benefit from? To the best of my knowledge, no one in the central Texas area has hosted an event like this so I'm looking to y'all for help.

FYI, tires will be limited to 1.9 max diameter and 4.5" max height. Should we put any kind of limitation on the kind of motor you can run? Would someone with a lathe motor have any hope of competing against a rig with a puller, assuming everything else is equal? Or is it that big a deal?

For anyone intestested, here's our scale rules, which are different from most:
http://www.txrcrca.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2108

I look forward to your responses and thanks in advance.

Tommy

[War Pig]

I can tell you pretty much anything you need to know about an event like this.

Are you planning to run 10 trucks from 2 different classes in this?

The TTC uses 7 different courses, and the amount of time to expect them to take.

1. Frame twister: 10 min.
2. Obstacle course: 5-7 min.
3. Mini Rubicon: 5-7 min.
4. Truck Pull: 2 min.
5. Hill climb: 2-3 min.
6. Mud bog: 2-4 min.
7. Tank Trap: 5-10 min.

It doesn't sound like alot of time, but it adds up fast. The best thing is to have the run order set up ahead of time so each competitor is ready to go when it's their turn. I did 10 rigs on all 7 courses in about 6-7 hours.

You will need alot of water if you want it on the courses. I used two 55 gallon drums of water, and ran out, but 4 out of 7 of our courses needed at least a little water on them.

I'd say that you want to run as many different courses as you can, it just makes for a great day.

One thing that you want to make sure that you do is have at least one good photographer and one person making video. If you don't do this, you will be sorry.

I'd say no motor limitations, but wheelspeed is king in these events.

I'll answer any other questions that you have, and I may have some more ideas that I'll think about tonight. I need to go finish my Christmas shopping .

Later, Tim.

[toyofast]

Ditto with what Tim mentioned above. He put on a great event. It was well executed. Other than having a couple of drivers drop out just before the event started and having to bring in the alternates, it went super smooth.

Even with living in the wet PNW, Tim used a lot of water and on the Tank Trap it wasn't enough. It was even raining days before and during the day of the TTC event.


A note from someone that was a photo/video person... Ask one person to be the photographer and one person to handle the video. Be sure that they have the right away for getting around the courses, besides the drivers. This is probably my only complaint from our TTC event. Myself and another member were asked to be the "media" for the event... even after telling everyone at the event to please stay out of our way and to stand in one area... most didn't care to listen. There were many times I stopped shooting since the spectators wanted to stand on the course to watch or walk right in front of me. I mentioned several times that if you can see my lens, I can see you. It didn't phase most.

[Rckcrwlr]

We did a TTC on a smaller venue with W.Pa.C.'s Camp'n Crawl.

We had a full course, mud bogg, Tug of War and hill climb. We are already planning 2010's event. It was a great time and really gave you a chance to see what your rig could really do.

[Tommy R]

Originally Posted by War Pig

I can tell you pretty much anything you need to know about an event like this.

Are you planning to run 10 trucks from 2 different classes in this?

The TTC uses 7 different courses, and the amount of time to expect them to take.

1. Frame twister: 10 min.
2. Obstacle course: 5-7 min.
3. Mini Rubicon: 5-7 min.
4. Truck Pull: 2 min.
5. Hill climb: 2-3 min.
6. Mud bog: 2-4 min.
7. Tank Trap: 5-10 min.

It doesn't sound like alot of time, but it adds up fast. The best thing is to have the run order set up ahead of time so each competitor is ready to go when it's their turn. I did 10 rigs on all 7 courses in about 6-7 hours.

You will need alot of water if you want it on the courses. I used two 55 gallon drums of water, and ran out, but 4 out of 7 of our courses needed at least a little water on them.

I'd say that you want to run as many different courses as you can, it just makes for a great day.

One thing that you want to make sure that you do is have at least one good photographer and one person making video. If you don't do this, you will be sorry.

I'd say no motor limitations, but wheelspeed is king in these events.

I'll answer any other questions that you have, and I may have some more ideas that I'll think about tonight. I need to go finish my Christmas shopping .

Later, Tim.

Tim, thanks for replying! I have to say it was primarily the ORCRC TTC video that I saw which pushed me over the edge to make an event like this. So thanks! Now let me provide a little more info. about what I'm thinking...

I'm unsure how many events and vehicles we'll have. Obviously, time will be the deciding factor on where we draw the line. However, I think our only significant time consuming event would be the obstacle course. That will likely be a bit of frame twister/mini-Rubicon, too. I just don't know if we'll have enough varied terrain available to have so many different courses of that nature.

Obviously, we'll also have a sled pull, hill climb, mud bog, etc. I think the only other difference we'll have is that I'd like a "high speed" course in the form of a rock race with some jumps and such.

As far as competitors, I'm anticipating about a dozen rigs competing, split between the two classes. If we have many more than that show up, we may have to pick and choose among the events in order to ensure we finish in time.

Regarding course set up, I definitely see a potential issue with water. We may have to bring in whatever water we use and I have no idea how far we'll need to haul it.....or how we would do it. It depends on the venue we get....and for now that's TBD.

Y'all don't have battery limitations, do you? What about if a battery dies on course? Is the run over or can the driver swap to another?

For the truck pull, I see additional weight is allowed if it can be added/removed in 10 seconds. Is this to keep the event moving or to prevent people from doing anything elaborate? I assume since the rules say no suspension mods that you can't install shock lockouts of any sort, correct?

Those are good points about the video/photographer. Hopefully, we can get someone to step up for each event.

I'm sure I'll have more questions and, if it's alright with you all, I'll post them up here for your input. I also submitted a request to join your forum. I may post some questions over there, as well.

Thanks for the help!!
Tommy

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by Tommy R

Tim, thanks for replying! I have to say it was primarily the ORCRC TTC video that I saw which pushed me over the edge to make an event like this. So thanks!

You're welcome!

Originally Posted by Tommy R

I'm unsure how many events and vehicles we'll have. Obviously, time will be the deciding factor on where we draw the line. However, I think our only significant time consuming event would be the obstacle course. That will likely be a bit of frame twister/mini-Rubicon, too. I just don't know if we'll have enough varied terrain available to have so many different courses of that nature.

Obviously, we'll also have a sled pull, hill climb, mud bog, etc. I think the only other difference we'll have is that I'd like a "high speed" course in the form of a rock race with some jumps and such.

That sounds like it will still be fun. it sucks when you're limited by the terrain. I'm lucky that I have our whole railroad right-of-way and our construction equipment at my disposal..... Our Obstacle Course ended up being a race around a track, with not too many obstacles.

Originally Posted by Tommy R

As far as competitors, I'm anticipating about a dozen rigs competing, split between the two classes. If we have many more than that show up, we may have to pick and choose among the events in order to ensure we finish in time.

12 rigs shouldn't be a problem to get through 5 courses in a day. Just make the courses a little bit easier to be safe. It's always better to make them a little easy for your first one....no need to make people not want to come back .

Originally Posted by Tommy R

Regarding course set up, I definitely see a potential issue with water. We may have to bring in whatever water we use and I have no idea how far we'll need to haul it.....or how we would do it. It depends on the venue we get....and for now that's TBD.

Water may well be the toughest thing about one of these onless you're by a river or lake. I'll probably try to get ahold of 2 more 55 gallon drums before our next one.

Originally Posted by Tommy R

Y'all don't have battery limitations, do you? What about if a battery dies on course? Is the run over or can the driver swap to another?

Batteries were the only real thing you could change during the comp. I figured that people could use a smaller 2 or 3-cell for the crawling part, and throw in a 4-cell for the mud bog, truck pull, and hill climb. If a battery died, the competitor had the whole allotted time to do an on-course repair or change a battery.

Originally Posted by Tommy R

For the truck pull, I see additional weight is allowed if it can be added/removed in 10 seconds. Is this to keep the event moving or to prevent people from doing anything elaborate? I assume since the rules say no suspension mods that you can't install shock lockouts of any sort, correct?

I just didn't want people doing any kind of serious mods to their trucks during the comp, making them add or remove weight in 10 seconds just made them think ahead of time about what they wanted to do. No shock lock-outs.

Originally Posted by Tommy R

Those are good points about the video/photographer. Hopefully, we can get someone to step up for each event.

I'm sure I'll have more questions and, if it's alright with you all, I'll post them up here for your input. I also submitted a request to join your forum. I may post some questions over there, as well.

Thanks for the help!!
Tommy

You bet. I'll post up some ideas to make the scoring go a little easier as well.

[Tommy R]

Tim, thanks again! Looks like we're on the same page as far as this stuff goes. I'm definitely going to err on the side of caution here and make the courses a little on the short and easy side to keep things moving.

What do you think of my idea to have a minimum number of scale points in order to compete? My goal is to make this a true scaler event, not just a lexan body slapped on top of an SCX10 with crazy power, y'know?

Another thought I had is this... It would seem that a heavy rig would be at a disadvantage on most of the events we're discussing. Would it then be reasonable to not allow any weight be added for the sled pull? I kind of figured this would be a chance for heavier rigs to have a bit of an advantage.

And that brings up yet another question. What were common aspects of the top finishing trucks? Were they heavy/light, wide/narrow, long/short? Did they all have certain motors or certain tires? That sort of thing....

Once again, I appreciate your input...and any input from you ORCRC folks. I wish I could make it up there for the next TTC! BTW, I just ordered a Honcho which will end up donating it's goodies so I can begin a 2.2 scaler build not unlike your Bronco. ;)

Thanks,
Tommy

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by Tommy R

What do you think of my idea to have a minimum number of scale points in order to compete? My goal is to make this a true scaler event, not just a lexan body slapped on top of an SCX10 with crazy power, y'know?

I think that is a great idea if you're trying to keep the rigs on the "scale" side.

Originally Posted by Tommy R

Another thought I had is this... It would seem that a heavy rig would be at a disadvantage on most of the events we're discussing. Would it then be reasonable to not allow any weight be added for the sled pull? I kind of figured this would be a chance for heavier rigs to have a bit of an advantage.

I think that the heavy rigs perform quite well. I was 3 points off of first place with my Bronco, and it's a pig. The heavy rigs did especially well in the truck pull. Since you plan to keep it more on the scale side of thing, it would be more interesting to not allow people to add weight.

Originally Posted by Tommy R

And that brings up yet another question. What were common aspects of the top finishing trucks? Were they heavy/light, wide/narrow, long/short? Did they all have certain motors or certain tires? That sort of thing....

The top finishing truck was medium weight with alot of power. Second and third were both fairly simple and lightweight SCX-10 rigs with hot motors. My Bronco was fourth and weighed in at 10 1/2 lbs ready to go for the TTC.

I'd say that the most important thing to have for the TTC is alot of power, a VERY reliable truck, and to know how it performs on various types of courses.
On the first course, my winch spool was spinning on the splines and I DNF'ed that course. That killed me in overall points. There was a good chance that I would have won the whole thing if not for that one bad score, so I'd say that reliability is the most important thing. You can't get points if you don't finish.

Originally Posted by Tommy R

Once again, I appreciate your input...and any input from you ORCRC folks.

You betcha! I'm sure you'll enjoy the 1.9 TTC coming up next month! The entries so far....

http://www.orcrc.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6324

Originally Posted by Tommy R

BTW, I just ordered a Honcho which will end up donating it's goodies so I can begin a 2.2 scaler build not unlike your Bronco. ;)

Sweet, can't wait to see it.

Later, Tim.

[Tommy R]

Originally Posted by War Pig

I think that is a great idea if you're trying to keep the rigs on the "scale" side.

We're trying to keep it about as scale as the rigs in your TTC, but with more of a daily driver theme for one class and a more modified trail rig for the other class. The mod class would be like y'all's rigs, but all our trucks will be 1.9s. We're planning on not modifying the courses at all. We'll just run the daily drivers first, then the modifieds for each event.

Originally Posted by War Pig

I think that the heavy rigs perform quite well. I was 3 points off of first place with my Bronco, and it's a pig. The heavy rigs did especially well in the truck pull. Since you plan to keep it more on the scale side of thing, it would be more interesting to not allow people to add weight.

That's kind of what I was thinking. Might add a new/interesting element. I want this whole event to be about compromise and choosing the best equipment to do all events pretty well. I think not allowing additional weight would be interesting!

Originally Posted by War Pig

The top finishing truck was medium weight with alot of power. Second and third were both fairly simple and lightweight SCX-10 rigs with hot motors. My Bronco was fourth and weighed in at 10 1/2 lbs ready to go for the TTC.

I'd say that the most important thing to have for the TTC is alot of power, a VERY reliable truck, and to know how it performs on various types of courses.

Cool! I'm glad to see a mix of rigs. Looks like lots of power will be required! Do y'all run mostly 3s or 4s? What's the popular motor choice and how does it hold up to all the mud and abuse?

Originally Posted by War Pig

You betcha! I'm sure you'll enjoy the 1.9 TTC coming up next month! The entries so far....

http://www.orcrc.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6324

Subscribed!!

[Coop980]

For us waterproofing was a requirement Im running a 7t puller I cut a tire foam and zip tied it around the open endbell I have a hardcase waterproof 3s 5500mah lipo runnin a Mamba Monster Max siliconed in a tupperware container and my reciever is siliconed shut in a proline cooler behind the cab.
And Tim put on a great event Im hopin to have my new 1.9 ready for the upcoming 1.9ttc.

[Tommy R]

Coop, so I guess the foam will not prevent water from making its way to the motor, but it'll keep the nasty bits out? That's worked out well for you? I was considering just running 4s on a standard lathe motor. Any thoughts on how that might work out compared to a puller on 3s?

But yes, our entrants will need to ensure their rigs are waterproofed or be prepared to replace lots of equipment! ;)

[Coop980]

Mine spent alot of time with mud and water well over the top of the motor with no problems at all. 4s should be enough power for sure depending on what turn lathe motor and weight of your scaler it could be hard to control mine is just under 11lbs. and at full speed gets a little scary.

[obijuan]

what trans is that with though? im sure a 2 speed could make up for a chitty lathe.

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by Tommy R

Cool! I'm glad to see a mix of rigs. Looks like lots of power will be required! Do y'all run mostly 3s or 4s? What's the popular motor choice and how does it hold up to all the mud and abuse?

Most were running 3-cell, not sure about 4-cell. Alot of guys run puller motors around here, but at least half were running lathe motors in the TTC. The lathe motors seem to hold up better to the mud and crap than the pullers. The foam
trick that Coop was talking about works well, but watch that you don't melt the foam, those pullers can get hot!

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by Coop980

mine is just under 11lbs. and at full speed gets a little scary.

Not to mention all the chit that you break!

Tommy, 4-cell with a 35 or 45t lathe should be plenty of power. What rig are you running?

[Tommy R]

Originally Posted by Coop980

Mine spent alot of time with mud and water well over the top of the motor with no problems at all. 4s should be enough power for sure depending on what turn lathe motor and weight of your scaler it could be hard to control mine is just under 11lbs. and at full speed gets a little scary.

Well, I'm going to try to keep it on a diet, but there will be a lot of steel tube work involved, so I'm sure it'll be pretty chunky. I ran my SCX10 with a Slash motor in it and cornering was definitely a challenge. So I'm going to shoot for a reasonably low ride height with only marginal flex....not as much as my Jeep has.

[Tommy R]

Originally Posted by War Pig

Not to mention all the chit that you break!

Tommy, 4-cell with a 35 or 45t lathe should be plenty of power. What rig are you running?

Thanks, Tim. Yeah, I was thinking a geared up 45t on 4s would be a decent combo. Good power, but a cheap motor (in case the water/mud kill it).

I'm going to use a Honcho kit for starters. Will likely leave the wheelbase at ~ 12.5", but the plan is to make a tube frame based on the stock chassis with Bronco or Jeep body panels bolted to it. Would love to do an interior, but with the tranny in the stock location, that'll be a bit of a challenge.

[Coop980]

I started with the Axial XVD front axleshafts and on the first course broke one off the line, broke the second a few more feet in so I swapped my stock shafts in and on the tank trap twisted one in half so big power and a heavy truck will break parts very easily.

[Tommy R]

Originally Posted by Coop980

I started with the Axial XVD front axleshafts and on the first course broke one off the line, broke the second a few more feet in so I swapped my stock shafts in and on the tank trap twisted one in half so big power and a heavy truck will break parts very easily.

Wow! Were you turned pretty far when they snapped? I've been pretty abusive to my Axial CVDs, but they've done well. But my rig is only 7 lbs. or so and the 3s battery is only powering a 55t lathe. Nonetheless, I've had the steering REALLY cranked and even when hammering on it, it's held up. I should pick up some more spares at least!

[Coop980]

Im building a Jeep YJ Truggy for are upcoming 1.9 ttc and Im going too run a 35t Tekin on 3s in it. I had it in my Toyota truggy and at almost 11lbs. it still moved it pretty good.