1.9 Barrage RTR 1/10 Crawler

[tuxstang]

Barrage calls for lightweight body ... even with aluminum spool. I won't use it as a base for a rally/Dakar truck, unless changing transmission, links and axles.

[wermart]

Dakar Rally body would not be heavy, rather than taller which makes this truck easier to roll on turns.
This will not be a crawler, i have 3 other crawlers for this purpose.
I figured out tower body mounts, got Tamiya once and mounted them on top of stock ones.
Still need to figure out adding a little weight at the bottom, not to overload a motor and chassis.
Motor needs to be changed and so does tires, probably from RC4WD.

Since it is discontinued truck, any spare parts I should be buying in my case?

[hillbillyrc]

Originally Posted by wermart

Dakar Rally body would not be heavy, rather than taller which makes this truck easier to roll on turns.
This will not be a crawler, i have 3 other crawlers for this purpose.
I figured out tower body mounts, got Tamiya once and mounted them on top of stock ones.
Still need to figure out adding a little weight at the bottom, not to overload a motor and chassis.
Motor needs to be changed and so does tires, probably from RC4WD.

Since it is discontinued truck, any spare parts I should be buying in my case?

Which version of the barrage do you have? 1.55? Or one of the 1.9?

[JonW]

There are steel diff spools on eBay which will add weight low down.

[edjo69]

Exactly what Dakar body is it if I may ask, just curious?

[wermart]

Originally Posted by hillbillyrc

Which version of the barrage do you have? 1.55? Or one of the 1.9?

1.9 First generation.

@JonW - I will look on Ebay, any weight at the bottom will be helpful. With my TRX4 Def i have been using brass portals and hex - found some for Barrage, but they slightly shorter, need 12mm

@ edjo69 - IVECO Dakar Rally Truck, got it from UK

[hillbillyrc]

Originally Posted by wermart

1.9 First generation.

IMHO what I would do to add weight down low is make my own beef tube for the axles with brass or steel 1/4 tube with fit inside the axle housings. Just need to find or drill out the tube that the axle shafts will slide inside the tube.

The redcat locker is a must have upgrade.

Getting a newer version of the barrage axles will get rid of the stock wide hexes, you only would need to get housing and axle shafts to swap old style axles to newer style. In doing this you will have better options for hexes.

If not only real options is locker and trying to find a long brass hex which won't help the axle shaft life. Only option for weight would be wheel weight of some sort. Stick on or finding a wheel one of the beef tubes beef patties will work on.

Just my opinion.

[boldfin]

You know that saying, "You always remember your first..." I'll always remember my first crawler was an ECX Barrage Gen2. I remember being amazed at what it could do on the rocks, and it seemed to hang with my buddies' modded SCX10's and TRX-4's. But I was (maybe still am) a noob, so I had nothing to compare it to. All I know is it was fun on the rocks, and our local hobby shop's indoor crawling course.



Then, naturally, I modded and upgraded some stuff. I bought SSD wheels and Pitbull Rock Beast XOR tires. I laid down the shocks and swapped in Mini-T Springs and Beef Tips.



The mods I did seemed to enhance its capabilities. And while I have been pretty pleased with it overall, once I experienced other brands and models, my Barrage seemed to lose a bit of it's luster. In particular, the limited steering compared to my SCX10-II's and TRX-4's was very noticeable. I finally decided to do something about it.



I think most people on this board are aware that a "v.3" exists. It's called the "Bowler" and it's sold under the RGT and Absima brands, neither of which are formally available here in the U.S., but you can sometimes buy them on eBay. The Bowler body is quite odd looking - a slightly-off clone of the Jeep Mighty FC. It carries over a lot of the same hardware and features as the Barrage, but it has a slightly longer chassis with an 11.4" wheelbase. There’s a post on here from honchojoe that goes into some of the differences and improvements.

RGT RC4 Ver.3 Bowler (aka FTX/HSP/Barrage)


A while back, I picked up a RGT Bowler on eBay for super cheap (I think I paid like $119 shipped).



For a while it just sat on the shelf, but eventually I rigged it up with some 1.55" wheels and tires, bumpers, and ran it a couple of times. It was OK, but not really all that exciting.



The biggest advantage it seemed to offer was much better steering than the Barrage - probably due to the fact that it has axles with universals. But overall, it just wasn't an exciting rig. It felt underpowered, having the same 390 motor as the Barrage.

Then I got the bright idea of swapping the RGT Bowler "v.3" axles onto my Barrage.



The swap isn't hard, but it does involve cutting down some of the rod ends a bit to fine tune the link lengths to get proper wheelbase and driveline angle. I also had to cut down one of the driveshafts. This was a great learning experience for me. Now that I've done it once, I think I could do it again a lot easier, and with more precision. But I got the job done, and I'm pleased with the results.





Mission Accomplished. The V.3 axles do in fact provide improved steering.

One quirk about the "v.3" Bowler is that it's set up with a four-link suspension with Chassis-mounted servo. That is rumored to be a no-no, as it should introduce bump steer. I intend to convert it to a three-link with panhard rod eventually. The mounting brackets are there on the axle and the chassis. It's just a matter of building a custom panhard. But I haven't had a chance to do that yet because I can't seem to find any appropriately-sized rod ends. The weird thing about the Bowler is that it uses a mix of M2 and M3 sized rod-ends. Actually, the plastic part of the rod ends are pretty much the same size as the Barrage - they are very small. But there's a mix of M2 and M3 sized pivot balls used on the Bowler. The screws holding the links on to the skid are M2, but the other end where the links attach to the chassis or the axle are M3. I ended up with a bunch of M2 rod ends from my Barrage after the axle swap, but what I need for the Panhard rod are the ones with M3 pivot balls. I know there are a ton of M3 rod ends out there, but most of them are much larger/wider/longer than what would fit. I did some searching around, and it looks like this is a common dilemma. The closest match would be rod ends for a Losi MRC, and they appear to be discontinued.




So until I can source the right rod ends, I'm running with the four-link and CMS setup. I haven't noticed much, if any bump steer. I'm sure it is there.

In the meantime, I ended up doing a few more modifications along the way that have come first. I made custom side trays for the battery and ESC/Receiver. Getting the weight down lower seems to have helped a little.



I realize I could just as easily have swapped on a set of AR44's or OG SCX10 axles, but I think they would have been a bit wider, and I liked the fact that I was able to stick with "factory" parts - if there is such a thing with these rigs. Really, it was just an experiment, and an opportunity to learn more about how RC crawlers works. I had fun figuring it out, and the fact that it works is just a bonus.

The "v.3" axle swap has re-energized my appreciation for the Barrage. I now have future plans to go upgrade the electronics - Mamba Micro X with the new HH 380 "Wee-wolver".

I hope you are still having fun with your Barrage's too!

[hillbillyrc]

Originally Posted by boldfin

You know that saying, "You always remember your first..." I'll always remember my first crawler was an ECX Barrage Gen2. I remember being amazed at what it could do on the rocks, and it seemed to hang with my buddies' modded SCX10's and TRX-4's. But I was (maybe still am) a noob, so I had nothing to compare it to. All I know is it was fun on the rocks, and our local hobby shop's indoor crawling course.



Then, naturally, I modded and upgraded some stuff. I bought SSD wheels and Pitbull Rock Beast XOR tires. I laid down the shocks and swapped in Mini-T Springs and Beef Tips.



The mods I did seemed to enhance its capabilities. And while I have been pretty pleased with it overall, once I experienced other brands and models, my Barrage seemed to lose a bit of it's luster. In particular, the limited steering compared to my SCX10-II's and TRX-4's was very noticeable. I finally decided to do something about it.



I think most people on this board are aware that a "v.3" exists. It's called the "Bowler" and it's sold under the RGT and Absima brands, neither of which are formally available here in the U.S., but you can sometimes buy them on eBay. The Bowler body is quite odd looking - a slightly-off clone of the Jeep Mighty FC. It carries over a lot of the same hardware and features as the Barrage, but it has a slightly longer chassis with an 11.4" wheelbase. There’s a post on here from honchojoe that goes into some of the differences and improvements.

RGT RC4 Ver.3 Bowler (aka FTX/HSP/Barrage)


A while back, I picked up a RGT Bowler on eBay for super cheap (I think I paid like $119 shipped).



For a while it just sat on the shelf, but eventually I rigged it up with some 1.55" wheels and tires, bumpers, and ran it a couple of times. It was OK, but not really all that exciting.



The biggest advantage it seemed to offer was much better steering than the Barrage - probably due to the fact that it has axles with universals. But overall, it just wasn't an exciting rig. It felt underpowered, having the same 390 motor as the Barrage.

Then I got the bright idea of swapping the RGT Bowler "v.3" axles onto my Barrage.



The swap isn't hard, but it does involve cutting down some of the rod ends a bit to fine tune the link lengths to get proper wheelbase and driveline angle. I also had to cut down one of the driveshafts. This was a great learning experience for me. Now that I've done it once, I think I could do it again a lot easier, and with more precision. But I got the job done, and I'm pleased with the results.





Mission Accomplished. The V.3 axles do in fact provide improved steering.

One quirk about the "v.3" Bowler is that it's set up with a four-link suspension with Chassis-mounted servo. That is rumored to be a no-no, as it should introduce bump steer. I intend to convert it to a three-link with panhard rod eventually. The mounting brackets are there on the axle and the chassis. It's just a matter of building a custom panhard. But I haven't had a chance to do that yet because I can't seem to find any appropriately-sized rod ends. The weird thing about the Bowler is that it uses a mix of M2 and M3 sized rod-ends. Actually, the plastic part of the rod ends are pretty much the same size as the Barrage - they are very small. But there's a mix of M2 and M3 sized pivot balls used on the Bowler. The screws holding the links on to the skid are M2, but the other end where the links attach to the chassis or the axle are M3. I ended up with a bunch of M2 rod ends from my Barrage after the axle swap, but what I need for the Panhard rod are the ones with M3 pivot balls. I know there are a ton of M3 rod ends out there, but most of them are much larger/wider/longer than what would fit. I did some searching around, and it looks like this is a common dilemma. The closest match would be rod ends for a Losi MRC, and they appear to be discontinued.




So until I can source the right rod ends, I'm running with the four-link and CMS setup. I haven't noticed much, if any bump steer. I'm sure it is there.

In the meantime, I ended up doing a few more modifications along the way that have come first. I made custom side trays for the battery and ESC/Receiver. Getting the weight down lower seems to have helped a little.



I realize I could just as easily have swapped on a set of AR44's or OG SCX10 axles, but I think they would have been a bit wider, and I liked the fact that I was able to stick with "factory" parts - if there is such a thing with these rigs. Really, it was just an experiment, and an opportunity to learn more about how RC crawlers works. I had fun figuring it out, and the fact that it works is just a bonus.

The "v.3" axle swap has re-energized my appreciation for the Barrage. I now have future plans to go upgrade the electronics - Mamba Micro X with the new HH 380 "Wee-wolver".

I hope you are still having fun with your Barrage's too!

Looks great, also nice to see guys still working on these little guys.

As for your panhard. the panhard mount in the link below fits the chassis and is what I used for my set up. It is 3mm hole not sure what the axle side mount is. But it might help figure things out for you. Plus its at a great price and isn't flimsy.

230009 Link Mount Set*| HoBao Enterprising

Also when going with a panhard you are going to need to flip your servo so your drag link will have to go to the passenger knuckle and be parallel with your panhard link. You don't want them crossed up.

[boldfin]

Thanks. I can see that the HoBao mount is wider than the one that comes on the Bowler, so if I make my own panhard bar now using regularly-sized M3 rod ends there should be no problem with the chassis-side connection. But I'm still a little concerned about fitting into the axle-side mounts that are built-into the axle (they're on both sides, so flipping the servo is not a problem). I believe the axle side mounts are sized for the mini/micro M2 rod ends that are used on the Barrage/Bowler. That's why I was on the hunt for smaller rod ends. The funky thing about the Bowler rod ends is that the pivot balls are made to accept M3 screws, but they're really narrow.

[boldfin]

Originally Posted by hobbyjumper

Wow, what a great post. Thanks so much for taking us along on your journey.

Truly resonates for me when you say, "I remember being amazed at what it could do on the rocks [however] once I experienced other brands and models, my Barrage seemed to lose a bit of its luster. In particular, the limited steering compared to my SCX10-II's and TRX-4's was very noticeable."

I made a few necessary and just for fun mods myself, as detailed in my video with 14K views, so there must be some interest out there. Also made a lot of trail run videos, but unlike you, I called it a day when the cost of the mods started to rival the purchase price.

I had the smaller crawler out twice this summer and it did well overall, but steep downhills made for a demolition derby. If the stock ESC had been suited to a crawler, and with lower gearing, Horizon might have had a well-respected little legend on its hands, but I guess they wanted it to appeal to kids who were going to go out and drive it like a Traxxas Slash.

Minor point, I don't buy into that Bowler Gen3 talk for a minute. Like a cousin who grew up overseas, it evolved independently and is in not a furthering of the Gen2, a deviation is all. Gen3 is yet to come! Just don't hold your breath :-)

Thanks again.

I too haven't been running my Barrage as much now that I'm into the more capable models - but I will say that the Barrage is perfectly-sized and therefore, much more fun on the indoor crawling course at our local hobby shop. It's got very tight turns, which is a major reason I've been seeking better steering.

I should probably just leave this rig alone for good, once I get the panhard bar sorted out. But for some unknown reason I have an itch to go brushless. I really want to try that new HH 380 Revolver motor. It makes absolutely no financial sense to invest so much in a wacky powerplant like that for this model, but I'm probably going to do it anyway. It's a hobby, and I like experimenting. If it doesn't work out in the Barrage, I will find some other 1/12 or 1/18th scale model to put it into down the road. I think gearing will present another challenge. If the stock tranny proves to be too much of a limitation, I have an adapter to run a 540-sized motor and tranny that I bought off eBay that might open up some additional gearing options. I have heard that the HH 380 Revolver motor can bolt up to a 540 trans. They specifically made it with mounting holes to do that.

I also agree that the Bowler is not in any way a "V.3" Barrage. The ECX/RGT/FTX/HSP crawlers are all just parts-bin mash-ups. But it does make for some interesting and easy parts swaps.

[hillbillyrc]

If it helps I know the stock barrage rod ends will thread on to the same thread as say a revo rod end that most swap to on the bigger trucks. I still have stock links on my rig with revo rod ends since swapping axles. So making a panhard with m2/m3 shouldn't be to hard.

[lonleycreeper]

Barrage Hard body TJ, vs the Scx10II F150...

[aiwaloki]

Some interesting reads here. I have a Barrage G1 that I have had since the beginning. I let my friend use it when he trails with me. I run a trx4. I wanted to upgrade the motor to the 390 but I think is cheaper to get a whole new KO transmission with a 540 motor. Then the steering clearance is another issue. I took it apart and it is a design issue, so to replace the axles starts to become a costly endeavor. I looked at the Losi zero Ackerman spindles, but don't know how much of an improvement they will be. I am going to wait to something breaks before I replace it. I also like to put a hobbywing 1080 esc in it. Any one with G1 have any solutions for steering clearance?

[mewalsh100]

Dirty Steve jumped my sh-t last night! He said I've been "spending way too much time dicking around with that damn Traxxas TRX toy" and he wants to get his Barronco out for a rip. (I think he was half in the bag as there were a bunch of beer cans rattling around on the floor boards of the Barronco).

Anyway, I gave it a once over and since the TRX got some new wheels and shoes, I slipped the wheels that came off the TRX on to Dirty Steve's rig. Funny, he quit bitchin immediately.

I told him to take the day and sober up and we'll get his rig out tonight.

[hillbillyrc]

Still looking good.

[mewalsh100]

Originally Posted by hillbillyrc

Still looking good.

Thanks hillbilly!


Yeah, she don't clean up quite like she used to, but she still strikes a pose. Nice and battle worn. Gotta say, this rig requires the least amount of maintenance out of any of them. Just takes a lick'n and keeps on tick'n. My guess is that with the driveline so overbuilt, and it being so light it just doesn't put any wear and tear on.



Did you ever get yours all sussed out? I haven't had a chance to go back through this forum yet to get caught up.

[mewalsh100]

I warned Dirty Steve that if he kept being a total a-hole, I'd pull him right outta the rig. He kept being an a-hole.

Re-bodied his rig with an old Axial Ridgecrest body I had laying around from my AX-10. Man, the lighter, lower profile body makes this thing easily go places that it had to really work at before. This body weighs 1/3 of Dirty Steve's Bronco, most of which was up high with the rack, lights, interior, an of course, fat-ass Dirty Steve himself.

I'm gonna leave Dirty Steve in time-out for a while and run this set up until he can be a bit more considerate. I had to drill some new holes, but pretty cleanly plugged the old holes with some plastic, plug grommets. I'm also liking the poke of the wheels and absolutely ZERO body rub.

[boldfin]

I'm still messing around with my Barrage from time to time. I've always found the stock motor to be a little lacking in torque, and we all know it's geared a little too high. Mostly out of curiosity, I picked up a Holmes Hobby Revolver 380 (aka "weewolver") and a Mamba Micro X ESC.

They said this motor was tiny, and they were not kidding:



The Revolver 380 bolts right into the stock motor plate and uses pinions with a 2.3mm shaft - of which there are not many on the market, I've learned. In an attempt to gear down a bit, I bought a, 18T Traxxas pinion (TRA7041). I know others have tried using this pinion before, but I didn't recall exactly why this didn't work out. Well, after calibrating the ESC and giving the old throttle a pull, I learned right away why - that pinion is LOUD. Not just loud, but seriously, full-on obnoxiously loud. Make people run the other way loud. I mean if the sound emanating from your geartrain is more annoying than a Revolver motor, that's saying something. This, I simply cannot abide.

Power and smoothness is a whole different story. The torque and control from the outrunner motor is absolutely wonderful. So I have to find another pinion/Spur combo that will work. They say the Revolver 380 has mounting holes to allow it to be mounted into a regular 540-sized motor plate. A possible solution may be to go to a full-sized 1/10th scale tranny. Any suggestions on a 48P spur/pinion combo that might work?

[Shinchu]

Came here as a barrage owner. Left here wondering if a HH rvolver 380 will solve my woes of ascender forward motor conversion pushing 540 cans up into the dashboard...

So the only trouble is finding a pinion? Hmmm... Subscribed for solutions.