Platform Lifespan

[rkj__]

How often do you expect / want a company to come out with a new, or significantly updated crawler platform?


I've seen quite a few comments lately about Axial needing to up their game. A number of people seem to be calling for a significant update or replacement for the SCX 10ii platform.


My question is, in YOUR OPINION, how often would you like to see leading brands come out with a new platform or significant update?


If platforms are left consistent for longer periods of time, the upgrade library of parts can grow to high levels. However, the competition might "pull ahead."



If platforms are updated too often, you may see change, just for the sake of change, without significant improvement. Aftermarket companies may not want to invest as much in upgrades, for a platform that will be quickly replaced.


I'm interested to hear your thoughts.

[JatoTheRipper]

I think 5 years is a good lifespan for a platform. The OG SCX10 only lasted as long as it did because it didn't have competition for a long time.

SBG posted a teaser pic of the "new" Axial on their Facebook page. The comments aren't all positive like they used to be anytime Axial farted. I think the masses are starting to get tired of Axial's same old same old year after year after year. Hopefully the teaser gives us a new platform with significant changes. If not, people are going to be disappointed as we have been with most Axial releases since the SCX10 II or SMT10 depending on who you are.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the TRX-4. Right now it's taking over, but Traxxas is known for keeping the same platform around forever. I don't think that will fly in the scale world unless nobody else changes their platforms.

[LSXGMC]

To me, a complete chassis overhaul isn't necessarily the answer. For example, the AR44 axle was a big step up and that axle design is still one of the best on the market. In terms of what Axial would need to do next, is a scale drivetrain / forward motor mount and more importantly, higher quality plastics & shocks. If they made those two upgrades, it would be a significant upgrade and I think a lot of people would be very happy.

I don't think we should expect much from this new release. It's definitely not an SCX-3... they wouldn't have the ad centered around Casey Currie if that were the case. This will be an SCX-2 based, Currie-branded unit, probably just a new body.

The TRX-4 wouldn't need a massive overhaul either, nor would the Ascender. Keep the updates simple and effective. Having some familiar parts makes sense from a business and consumer perspective. Look where the expectations of an overhaul have landed the Ascender... terribly poor "budget" model released and people are afraid to invest in them because it's so old now and everyone expects bigger and better.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by LSXGMC

To me, a complete chassis overhaul isn't necessarily the answer. For example, the AR44 axle was a big step up and that axle design is still one of the best on the market. In terms of what Axial would need to do next, is a scale drivetrain / forward motor mount and more importantly, higher quality plastics & shocks. If they made those two upgrades, it would be a significant upgrade and I think a lot of people would be very happy.

I don't think we should expect much from this new release. It's definitely not an SCX-3... they wouldn't have the ad centered around Casey Currie if that were the case. This will be an SCX-2 based, Currie-branded unit, probably just a new body.

The TRX-4 wouldn't need a massive overhaul either, nor would the Ascender. Keep the updates simple and effective. Having some familiar parts makes sense from a business and consumer perspective. Look where the expectations of an overhaul have landed the Ascender... terribly poor "budget" model released and people are afraid to invest in them because it's so old now and everyone expects bigger and better.

Agreed on all accounts. Once your scaler has a scale layout, including drive train, there's only so much you can improve upon.

Good point about it probably not being a new SCX10 - because Currie.

Don't remind me about the Ascender.

[Jim85IROC]

EDIT: In the time it took me to write this, 2 of you mofo's said the same thing in a much more concise, direct manner.

I think it's hard to define a specific timeframe. It depends entirely on how fast the market is moving at the time. Like Jato mentioned, the SCX10 platform stayed constant for a long time because there was no need for it to change. Now that Axial is getting competition from all angles, they may be forced to update more frequently.

For me though, this is a double-edged sword. As much as we might all like the idea of Axial releasing an entirely new platform every 3 weeks, doing so will have a negative impact on aftermarket support. The aftermarket for the SCX10 is MASSIVE because it's a platform that existed for so long, and one that was not only versatile enough to allow people to take it into many different directions via the aftermarket, but also because it had no shortage of flaws that needed to be addressed.

Now compare that to the SCX10 II, which is both newer and improved. Those two things have resulted in a smaller aftermarket compared to the original. Now look at the TRX4. Newer yet, arguably improved, and lower overall sales volume. Additionally, it's arguably less versatile in terms of what you can do with it. Smaller aftermarket.

So... that begs the question of what exactly should the SCX10 III be? I honestly don't see a 100% new design as all that beneficial. What major changes need to be made to the SCX10 II exactly? Making an entirely new platform means that the aftermarket essentially needs to start over. And for what? What major shortcomings does the SCX10 II platform have? This is one of those cases where I can't help but wonder if Axial would be better off making incremental changes to what they already have. The SCX10 II with better plastics, better tires, and for God's sake, better rod ends might be a smarter answer than a whole new design.

[goobs]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

I think 5 years is a good lifespan for a platform. The OG SCX10 only lasted as long as it did because it didn't have competition for a long time.

SBG posted a teaser pic of the "new" Axial on their Facebook page. The comments aren't all positive like they used to be anytime Axial farted. I think the masses are starting to get tired of Axial's same old same old year after year after year. Hopefully the teaser gives us a new platform with significant changes. If not, people are going to be disappointed as we have been with most Axial releases since the SCX10 II or SMT10 depending on who you are.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the TRX-4. Right now it's taking over, but Traxxas is known for keeping the same platform around forever. I don't think that will fly in the scale world unless nobody else changes their platforms.

i think 5yrs might be too long, however it depends on the market/competition. look at automakers.

i really like my smt10...except for a few things its awesome.

for me, with a background in engineering and design, axial could keep the same chassis rails, but make the mods other places. E.G. rear cantilever susp. or do a motor - tcase setup, portal ar44 axles, things like that. IMO.
things where people dont have to buy a whole new truck, make things interchange.

and broken record time....EVERYTHING needs metal links, steel pivot balls and better plastic.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by goobs

i think 5yrs might be too long, however it depends on the market/competition. look at automakers.

i really like my smt10...except for a few things its awesome.

for me, with a background in engineering and design, axial could keep the same chassis rails, but make the mods other places. E.G. rear cantilever susp. or do a motor - tcase setup, portal ar44 axles, things like that. IMO.
things where people dont have to buy a whole new truck, make things interchange.

and broken record time....EVERYTHING needs metal links, steel pivot balls and better plastic.

A modular scaler...that's a great idea! I'm also an engineer. Let's start our own company!

Axial's plastic links are just inexcusable at this point especially since they have the worst plastics in all of mainstream RC.

After one run Axial rod ends look like the ear of some hipster that decided to get cork-sized earrings and then decided to take them out.

Oh and that plastic idler gear that will blow out on your first or second run... Come on!

[goobs]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

A modular scaler...that's a great idea! I'm also an engineer. Let's start our own company!

if i had the saving to live off for awhile, i would've done it a long time ago.

i have all these ideas, skills, etc, just no time to sit for hours on end designing...i do that at my day job lol. 50-60hrs a week behind a desk drafting/designing makes me not want to do it in my free time - what little i have

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by goobs

if i had the saving to live off for awhile, i would've done it a long time ago.

i have all these ideas, skills, etc, just no time to sit for hours on end designing...i do that at my day job lol. 50-60hrs a week behind a desk drafting/designing makes me not want to do it in my free time - what little i have

I'm the same way. Sitting at a desk is sucking the life out of me!

[kincer]

The nail was hit on the head a couple times in this thread, better plastics, better shocks, and rod ends would be a huge benefit. The actual platform from what I hear is good it's just the little things. I've had several first gen SCX10s and I really liked them but I changed shocks, links, replaced plastic bits here and there. My TRX Bronco mechanically is unchanged from stock, electronics have been changed out but the rest is solid, the shocks don't leak, links are strong, plastic is really good! I haven't bought the scx10.2 for those reasons.

[Jim85IROC]

you two let me know if you need an EE for your new company. Just don't expect JRH quality of me. I'm not that smart.

[rkj__]

What I'm hearing so far, is it's not so much the frequency of updates, but the technical / quality shortcomings that are driving the calls for updates and improvements.

[svt923]

I'm good with updates every year or 2 if they are compatible with the older platform. For the brief time I was into on-road cars, the crap Xray pulled with their annual updates drove me nuts. It seemed like half their "optimization updates" were moving things around by a MM or 2 so the new parts wouldn't work on last year's car without $300 of other parts.

If the company is going to go complete, all new everything type overhaul then I would expect a 5+ year cycle.

[Browneye]

Originally Posted by rkj__

What I'm hearing so far, is it's not so much the frequency of updates, but the technical / quality shortcomings that are driving the calls for updates and improvements.

^^This.

The SCX10ii was a response to the Vaterra Ascender. Frankly I still like the Ascender platform - it's more durable, easier to work on, and more reliable. It can be made to crawl just as competitively. I got the new Blazer SCX10ii when it came out and just love it. But it surely had some weak points, which have been addressed. Man it can crawl, even with the long overhangs and wide body. A little weight and some tuning and look out!

IMO Axial should buy jato rod ends or something. Or buy them from Traxxas. LOL At least their suspension links would be competitive then. That plastic crap is just a joke.

Even Vaterra, with their so-called 'updated' suburban, at least it has metal rods in the plastic links. But just look at the old links - they still work great and are easy to configure for all four wheelbase lengths.

I don't know enough about the scaler market verses the crawler market, which drive which or which is more popular, but that's where I see a diversion in product offerings. People like RC4WD that win at the scaler stuff, and then even Traxxas throwing a lot of that detail into their lexan body crawlers. There's a lot of mix and match of product direction. The new TRX Defender was a big hit, but didn't hold much interest for me - my style of crawling doesn't need engable lockers or a 2speed transmission, plus the thing is so heavy it's not a competitive rock crawler. But they sold like hotcakes cuz people loved the doo-dads and the scale detailing, and they make a great trail rig. I think that's where people start in this - I know it was for me, but you quickly find things that hold more interest, be it scale replicating and scratch building, or competition crawling.

[goobs]

Originally Posted by Jim85IROC

you two let me know if you need an EE for your new company. Just don't expect JRH quality of me. I'm not that smart.

Sorry, kits only

[Jim85IROC]

Originally Posted by goobs

Sorry, kits only

[CM9000]

At least its not like you get 3 versions out in 2 months of 3.0, then 8 months later you have an extra 3.0 version then 3 4.0 versions. Oh wait.. 6 months later a release date for version 5.0 comes out.

I'm not talking about just TLR. AE does it too. The 2 hottest race kit mfr's going at it back and forth so much lol.

1 year before a new revision comes out is good enough for me. No sooner than that! For example a dedicated company competition driver comps for the whole year with the same truck, takes info back to the lab and says hey, we can fix this, or that. Imagine having that job lol.

[mewalsh100]

I think much of a platforms inherent lifespan depends on how good it was at release. If proper R&D was done, QA, it could remain relevant for a fair length of time, particularly through the benefits of the aftermarket. Eventually though, innovation will catch up and then pass. Take portal axles for example. They were pretty much unseen "unobtanium" not too long ago. Now, they're standard fair on a few RTR rigs and have proven to be a game changer with regards to clearance and the terrain they can tackle. So, what was rarefied air not too long ago has trickled down to readily available RTR rigs. It's the natural order and progression of things. It's also the reason so many automobile and motorcycle manufacturer's race. It breeds the technology and innovation that will trickle down to the car in your driveway or motorcycle in your garage.

[Growler]

Originally Posted by mewalsh100

Take portal axles for example. They were pretty much unseen "unobtanium" not too long ago. Now, they're standard fair on a few RTR rigs and have proven to be a game changer with regards to clearance and the terrain they can tackle.

Maybe that is why I have seen full size off-road competition rules specify maximum clearance measured from the axle pumpkin. So portals might need smaller tires. Leaf springs get points over 4 link in RC scale competition, I see no reason why portals should get a pass.


I still run first SCX10 G6 Rubicon kit and not really looking for another SCX10 platform. I like crawling on my free time and so far I am not into competitions. I like the compatibility of parts from different Axial products, I like availability of parts and aftermarket options. I like how Axial plastic parts hold bearings compared to some cheap aftermarket metal ones. I do not see myself using ultra strong servos that move boulders and break plastic because it seems like a strange thing to do for a scale vehicle. Stock machine is capable enough to be fun for me and all the limitations my truck has makes it easier to find a challenging track. I do not like how some scalers strive for high wheelspeed and bounce their trucks all over the place. I like how Axial is like a LEGO that allows you to let your imagination run wild and create different projects like formula offroad, multi axle rig, Wroncho, mega mud truck etc, but in the end if you do not want that project anymore you can just reuse all the parts in a trail rig or create something else. Only thing a TRX4 has going for me is the idea of remotely locking differentials, because it would be fun to experiment with those in different situations, but I do not like their product offerings like their Tx/ Rx in one kit with diff locking. For me OD/ UD gears and availability of different gearing options are bigger deal than remotely locking differentials.

I think scale crowd ruined foamy scale model aircraft because increased detail made them more expensive and out of the box durability made them more difficult to modify for other use, like streamer RC combat.

[Col_Sanders]

IMO there is no set lifespan for a scaler. Once the competition has raised the bar enough, new versions should be brought around. I'd say Traxxas, HPI, G-Made, and even Redcat have raised the bar high enough that Axial should come out with an SCX-10 III. It would not necessarily need portals but an offset front pumpkin, forward mounted motor, scale looking trans/t-case with OD/UD options, and higher quality components could bring Axial back to the forefront as long as it was priced competitively.

Plastic links, rod ends, and shocks should go away unless its on a significantly cheaper version of the truck.