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Thread: Second crawler, but first Axial-based: UMG10 kit or VS410 kit? Something else?

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Old 04-18-2019, 02:08 PM   #1
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Default Second crawler, but first Axial-based: UMG10 kit or VS410 kit? Something else?

So I'm planning a second crawler out after enjoying, but being a bit frustrated with my TRX4. 4 failed mini servos for the lockers, an enormous amount of slop from the $100 Traxxas 400 servo, sloppy/loose links and binding shafts I just want to shelf it for a minute and build something new as my second rig. I absolutely love the performance of my TRX4 and will work on it, but I'm looking for something a bit simpler and more elegant in construction and more importantly something I start out with as a new truck. I got my TRX secondhand.

The goal is to end up with something that performs better on the rocks than my TRX4 Bronco. I like the idea of the new SCX10II UMG10 kit though I do wish they did a licensed mog body - but am I going to be disappointed with the box stock quality and/or durability of the SCX10II rig and the one piece AR44s? I started looking at upgrades and figured if I just went with the VS410 kit instead I'd be starting from a point where I'd already have a lot of major nice to haves and a prettier truck that's a lot heavier down low. Am I nuts?


I plan on going Mamba X with either a Holmes Revolver or a 2700-3500kv PP and I think I'd opt for the Axial 2speed setup they're pushing for the UMG10. Would be sick to run the 2speed AND a Dig setup but not sure if the servos for both would get in the way. I've got an extra TQi tx/rx I'll run so I have enough channels.



Any other options out there I'm overlooking? I guess I could build a TRX4 Sport kit as well and throw a scale body on, but I feel like I want some variety too.

Last edited by jessedacri; 04-18-2019 at 02:11 PM.
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Old 04-18-2019, 02:22 PM   #2
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Default Re: Second crawler, but first Axial-based: UMG10 kit or VS410 kit? Something else?

Do you like to tinker or do you want a fully done rig?

If you want the 2 speed and dig I dont believe they are compatible. Dig is for the old 3 gear style transmission while the 2 speed is for the newer "kit" transmission. I'd go for dig because a brushless setup will already be giving you a wider speed range compared to a brushed setup.

UMG10 is a shorter wheelbase which gets a better break over angle (clearance to the skid) but it wont climb as steep of an angle compared to the VS410 (which has a longer wheelbase). Though you could strech the wheelbase on the UMG10 to match the VS410 if you get rid of or alter the rear fenders.
The front and rear overhangs on the UMG are much shorter than the Scout-ish body, depending on how you drive this can be very useful in allowing you to get on the rocks before hitting them with the bumpers.


If you're set on a Revolver you might consider the Castle creations SW4, JRH the owner of Holmes Hobbies has said it has the best low speed control for the Revolver. I have this setup in a TRX4 and its great, kind of surprising for a "basher" ESC.

It sounds like the previous owner of your TRX4 beat the snot out of it, they typically dont have that many issues.

Last edited by HumboldtEF; 04-18-2019 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:43 PM   #3
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Default Re: Second crawler, but first Axial-based: UMG10 kit or VS410 kit? Something else?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HumboldtEF View Post
Do you like to tinker or do you want a fully done rig?

If you want the 2 speed and dig I dont believe they are compatible. Dig is for the old 3 gear style transmission while the 2 speed is for the newer "kit" transmission. I'd go for dig because a brushless setup will already be giving you a wider speed range compared to a brushed setup.

UMG10 is a shorter wheelbase which gets a better break over angle (clearance to the skid) but it wont climb as steep of an angle compared to the VS410 (which has a longer wheelbase). Though you could strech the wheelbase on the UMG10 to match the VS410 if you get rid of or alter the rear fenders.
The front and rear overhangs on the UMG are much shorter than the Scout-ish body, depending on how you drive this can be very useful in allowing you to get on the rocks before hitting them with the bumpers.


If you're set on a Revolver you might consider the Castle creations SW4, JRH the owner of Holmes Hobbies has said it has the best low speed control for the Revolver. I have this setup in a TRX4 and its great, kind of surprising for a "basher" ESC.

It sounds like the previous owner of your TRX4 beat the snot out of it, they typically dont have that many issues.

I like to tinker to an extent but I don't like having to fix glaring issues all over the place - I feel like the VS410 is too "done" for me and the stock SCX kit maybe not done enough. I'm leaning towards the UMG10. I feel like with the VS410 there's too much I'd want to change from the base build that it'd be over what I want to spend before I'm happy.

How about the CrossRC crawlers like the SG4 Demon or FR4? Am I locking myself in a platform that doesn't have a lot of support or are they solid? They look awesome, I love the body styles and they seem to be capable, but I don't hear much about them here.
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Old 04-18-2019, 08:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: Second crawler, but first Axial-based: UMG10 kit or VS410 kit? Something else?

I own a Cross RC BC8 and they make great looking stuff but I'd maybe try another brand since you're coming from a bit of a lemon of a TRX4. I'd recommend something with a larger aftermarket offering unless you like to make parts from scratch. What you could do is grab one of the Cross RC bodies and put it on something else, you'll just need to figure out how to mount it.

As much as I like to see people shit on Axial the SCX10.2 is a solid platform, just plan on replacing the links or rod ends at a minimum they tend to stretch out and get sloppy.

Hopefully some other folks chime in, I dont want to be the only view point here.
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Old 04-19-2019, 08:56 AM   #5
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Default Re: Second crawler, but first Axial-based: UMG10 kit or VS410 kit? Something else?

You could always build your own kit with the best parts from each brand and have a hellov a rig
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Old 04-19-2019, 05:33 PM   #6
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Default Re: Second crawler, but first Axial-based: UMG10 kit or VS410 kit? Something else?

If you're disappointed in the quality of the TRX-4, you absolutely do not want to buy an Axial.

I'm curious about the binding and slop you are talking about. Traxxas links are very nice and durable. Are you running some crazy long shocks or something?
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Old 04-19-2019, 09:35 PM   #7
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Default Re: Second crawler, but first Axial-based: UMG10 kit or VS410 kit? Something else?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Col_Sanders View Post
If you're disappointed in the quality of the TRX-4, you absolutely do not want to buy an Axial.

I'm curious about the binding and slop you are talking about. Traxxas links are very nice and durable. Are you running some crazy long shocks or something?
That was my next question but I didn't want to offend - am I really going to not be thrilled with a brand new kit like the UMG10? Like is there a lot of annoying basic stuff that needs work right away unlike the TRX4 which is pretty durable, well thought out and competent on the rocks out of the box?


My TRX4 woes are mostly due to the fact that it was purchased used, plus the terrain I have around here is pretty extreme (although I've only had it ~2 months) ... and probably a little bad luck. All the links are super sloppy and loose, the center driveshafts seized up fast, I've gone through 4 locker servos and now just have them locked out, and the $100 Traxxas 400 servo I bought 8 packs ago has so much play on the output shaft that something is definitely broken inside. Traxxas said "might be a blown bearing, please take it apart to check" and I'm like, do I really want to disassemble a waterproof servo that's not old to see if there's a defect or not? Prior to this I was out of RC for 11 years, last having owned Revos and T-Maxxes. Last time I trust TRX brand electronics.

I just need to throw new links onto it, bite the bullet for the $70 MIP shafts, and figure out the servo situation and I'm back in action. I just figure a different truck entirely would keep the wrenching fresh in moments like this when I feel fed up with a particular build. This one I've already torn the portals, transmission, and diffs apart to regrease and add all-new Jim's bearings all around.
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Old 04-20-2019, 02:09 PM   #8
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Default Re: Second crawler, but first Axial-based: UMG10 kit or VS410 kit? Something else?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jessedacri View Post
That was my next question but I didn't want to offend - am I really going to not be thrilled with a brand new kit like the UMG10? Like is there a lot of annoying basic stuff that needs work right away unlike the TRX4 which is pretty durable, well thought out and competent on the rocks out of the box?


My TRX4 woes are mostly due to the fact that it was purchased used, plus the terrain I have around here is pretty extreme (although I've only had it ~2 months) ... and probably a little bad luck. All the links are super sloppy and loose, the center driveshafts seized up fast, I've gone through 4 locker servos and now just have them locked out, and the $100 Traxxas 400 servo I bought 8 packs ago has so much play on the output shaft that something is definitely broken inside. Traxxas said "might be a blown bearing, please take it apart to check" and I'm like, do I really want to disassemble a waterproof servo that's not old to see if there's a defect or not? Prior to this I was out of RC for 11 years, last having owned Revos and T-Maxxes. Last time I trust TRX brand electronics.

I just need to throw new links onto it, bite the bullet for the $70 MIP shafts, and figure out the servo situation and I'm back in action. I just figure a different truck entirely would keep the wrenching fresh in moments like this when I feel fed up with a particular build. This one I've already torn the portals, transmission, and diffs apart to regrease and add all-new Jim's bearings all around.
it sounds to me like your endpoints were set wrong for all your servos. Even a high quality servo wont last long if its being forced into the frame or past full lock.
Also stock driveshafts should be plenty strong. I haven't seen too many people break those.

If you aren't impressed with Traxxas, don't even bother with Axial.
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Old 04-20-2019, 06:10 PM   #9
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Default Re: Second crawler, but first Axial-based: UMG10 kit or VS410 kit? Something else?

Yeah, sounds like your endpoints may not be set right and the truck may have been abused/neglected? A new set of rod ends should fix the slop and be fairly inexpensive and easy to swap out. Those driveshafts have also been pretty tough in my experience. I beat on one of mine with 4S and brushless and didn't have any drivetrain issues.

If the UMG-10 looks like something you'd like, go for it. Just budget for new links and shocks pretty soon.
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Old 04-20-2019, 08:39 PM   #10
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Default Re: Second crawler, but first Axial-based: UMG10 kit or VS410 kit? Something else?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Col_Sanders View Post
Yeah, sounds like your endpoints may not be set right and the truck may have been abused/neglected? A new set of rod ends should fix the slop and be fairly inexpensive and easy to swap out. Those driveshafts have also been pretty tough in my experience. I beat on one of mine with 4S and brushless and didn't have any drivetrain issues.

If the UMG-10 looks like something you'd like, go for it. Just budget for new links and shocks pretty soon.
Can I set endpoints for every channel with the stock TQi radio? I know I can for steering but I thought the diff servos just did their own thing and didn’t have a setting for it. Hope I’m wrong here?

Is there anything else in the SCX10II kit that would anger aside from links and shocks? If I go ahead on that front I’m gonna just cover all my bases from the get go. Seems like people use traxxas links and shocks - in which case lol should I just get another TRX and call it a day I’m just looking for a simpler, slightly different build that can perform with the best after some tweaks.
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Old 04-21-2019, 05:04 PM   #11
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Default Re: Second crawler, but first Axial-based: UMG10 kit or VS410 kit? Something else?

I think you can set end points on the other channels but IIRC its a convoluted process dealing with blinky lights and witchcraft. You'd have to download the manual and look at the flow chart.

The stock links more than likely will not fail on you unless you are pretty hard on the truck, but they will develop a lot of slop before too long and the stock shocks leak like crazy. You could just build it stock and upgrade as you go...There are other upgrades that I'd probably spring for right off the bat though, such as SSD front axle housing and aluminum C-Hubs (knuckles wouldn't be a bad idea either). The single piece housings that come on the majority of the SCX10 II kits have the C-Hubs molded in. If they fail, you have to replace the entire housing. Not a simple trail side repair like it should be. I only mention that because I had on break on the first run with my 1.9 Wraith and I had not done anything even remotely hard on the truck.

SCX10 IIs are good trucks and can be built to perform very well, but quality wise, they are a good bit behind Traxxas.
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Old 04-21-2019, 06:17 PM   #12
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Default Re: Second crawler, but first Axial-based: UMG10 kit or VS410 kit? Something else?

You must have got a bad housing, as I have been beating on both my rigs with one piece housings for a while. (Honcho, RBK) The Honcho has well over 100 miles on her now and the Rbk is not far behind. The links do have slop in them, and the plastic knuckles on both are sloppy now. I am planning on going until I break something before replacing though.

Traxxas rod ends have been my go to for a long time now. It may be your Trx4 just got beat on for quite a while.
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Old 04-22-2019, 07:08 AM   #13
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Default Re: Second crawler, but first Axial-based: UMG10 kit or VS410 kit? Something else?

After many, many miles on my TRX, the links are getting sloppy - especially out back. Things wear out, whether it's Traxxas or Axial (Though the old Axial rod ends were wobbly after 2 runs already)

The stock driveshafts are sturdy, but they do start to stick after a while. I replaced mine with SSD's. The rear is fine, but the front's are known to wobble. Only issue I've ever had with SSD parts. Plenty of other options out there aside from MIP's, though in my experience MIP's are the best around.

Sounds like your TRX was rode hard and put away wet. Blowing of the shift servos could be a number of issues. The cables if not cleaned once in a while can get sticky and work the servos pretty hard. Too much grease on the shift fork can also cause issues. The Bluetooth module is a very nice upgrade - allows for much easier tuning, and you can just download the TRX4 profile and the endpoints are already set.

Shame about the servo....for the price, I'd expect a better response from Traxxas. How's the servo horn? If its still the stock plastic, it could be stripped out. Blown servo bearings are kinda rare.

I've sold off my SCX10v2, but it was a solid truck overall. I bought the kit version of the Cherokee and overall it was a great performer, and a much simpler platform. Did have some issues but they were easily addressed. Most notably the quickly worn rod ends (the V2 is much better than the V1 for sure, but they still wear out) I use a few tricks when building the stock shocks to keep them leak free, and they work fine for me. Can't say I had any other issues. Might I suggest a look at an Ascender? Very stout and solid platform. Also the Gmade Bom, which is a VERY capable if somewhat underrated truck. My 2 cents.

Best of luck in your search!
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Old 04-22-2019, 12:00 PM   #14
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Default Re: Second crawler, but first Axial-based: UMG10 kit or VS410 kit? Something else?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Col_Sanders View Post
If you're disappointed in the quality of the TRX-4, you absolutely do not want to buy an Axial.

I'm curious about the binding and slop you are talking about. Traxxas links are very nice and durable. Are you running some crazy long shocks or something?
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Col_Sanders View Post
...the truck may have been abused/neglected? A new set of rod ends should fix the slop and be fairly inexpensive and easy to swap out. Those driveshafts have also been pretty tough in my experience. I beat on one of mine with 4S and brushless and didn't have any drivetrain issues.
X2

Quote:
Originally Posted by jessedacri View Post
... Seems like people use traxxas links and shocks - in which case lol should I just get another TRX and call it a day I’m just looking for a simpler, slightly different build that can perform with the best after some tweaks.
In that case TRX-4 Sport kit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OSRC View Post
After many, many miles on my TRX, the links are getting sloppy - especially out back. Things wear out, whether it's Traxxas or Axial (Though the old Axial rod ends were wobbly after 2 runs already)

The stock driveshafts are sturdy, but they do start to stick after a while....

Sounds like your TRX was rode hard and put away wet. Blowing of the shift servos could be a number of issues. The cables if not cleaned once in a while can get sticky and work the servos pretty hard. Too much grease on the shift fork can also cause issues. The Bluetooth module is a very nice upgrade - allows for much easier tuning, and you can just download the TRX4 profile and the endpoints are already set.

Shame about the servo....for the price, I'd expect a better response from Traxxas. How's the servo horn? If its still the stock plastic, it could be stripped out. Blown servo bearings are kinda rare.

I've sold off my SCX10v2, but it was a solid truck overall. I bought the kit version of the Cherokee and overall it was a great performer, and a much simpler platform. Did have some issues but they were easily addressed. Most notably the quickly worn rod ends (the V2 is much better than the V1 for sure, but they still wear out) I use a few tricks when building the stock shocks to keep them leak free, and they work fine for me. Can't say I had any other issues. Might I suggest a look at an Ascender? Very stout and solid platform...!
Agreed.

My TRX4 has been very durable and reliable and it's been used as a loaner rig several times and runs on 3s. Had one difflock servo gears die early on (replaced gear set and fine since then) then second one went out months later due to factory gasket not seated and water intrusion from creek crossings. I did replace the middle driveshaft piece front/rear as mine was very early RTR release and had a jump rope effect due to improperly molded parts. Some rear link ends are little loose now, but not time to replace yet, it's been used hard.

Ascenders have been very reliable and quiet/smooth running, another great option.
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Old 04-22-2019, 06:43 PM   #15
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Default Re: Second crawler, but first Axial-based: UMG10 kit or VS410 kit? Something else?

One thing I have learnt over the years is that all RC vehicles break, and need loads of maintenance.

Axial's break, Traxxas' break, Vaterra's break. when you have a 8kg truck fall 3-4m on its wheel or roof its going to do MAD damage.

Your TRX4 is one of the best starting point RC Crawlers in the market.

Personally, I say EMBRACE IT. Strip your TRX4, clean everything, order fancy links, fancy drive shafts, better servos, and get a metal servo horn. You could even get a HW1080 which is a nice upgrade.

All of this will cost less then a new truck. You will also end up with a truck much closer to what you want, and hey, when you upgrade something, the new part will last MUCH longer.


The way I look at it, any new truck you buy, is going to have issues. You will again be stuck in the exact same situation you are in now with your TRX4. Trust me it will happen sooner than you think.

All this being said, some people just like shiny new things..... (I DO) in which case get a new truck. Maybe look into a 2.2 for something that is a bit different to what you have now, and might open new areas for you to play in.

Just my thoughts.
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Old 04-25-2019, 05:29 AM   #16
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Default Re: Second crawler, but first Axial-based: UMG10 kit or VS410 kit? Something else?

Get a VS4-10. With Mamba X and a 2200kv Puller Pro and the aux channel set to adjust the drag brake, it's an absolute monster. It does not disappoint.
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Old 05-05-2019, 08:19 PM   #17
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Default Re: Second crawler, but first Axial-based: UMG10 kit or VS410 kit? Something else?

I'm still pretty undecided over here - I think I want to go Axial and upgrade as I go (and I'm loving some of the UMG10 builds popping up, and the Knight Customs mog grill for it) as I'm realizing I want some variety and simplicity in my collection. VS410 is a bit too "done" for me I'm thinking, I want to be able to take it in a different direction - though the cost if I just want Rockjocks or portals on the stock UMG kit is almost as much as a VS410 and I don't get any of the other goodies. Almost pulled the trigger a million times this week but I'm still so indecisive.

My only hangup now is the SSD rep dude on here all but confirming there's gonna be a reveal at Proline by the Fire on another "which truck?" thread. Maybe I should wait a few weeks, but the longer I wait the more money I spend on the TRX4!

I bought a fresh new Bronco body, the Powershift LED kit (with the tungsten-colored headlights), Axial roof rack and some China scale accessories. Also the SSD Rock Shield bumper to increase my approach angle, but now I'm wondering if the scale winch look was better. Only some time on the rocks will tell. Working on some fresh links as soon as I can figure out which ones to get.

Last edited by jessedacri; 05-06-2019 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 05-06-2019, 11:09 AM   #18
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Default Re: Second crawler, but first Axial-based: UMG10 kit or VS410 kit? Something else?

Just to clarify a little, there won't be a big reveal at an event.
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Old 05-06-2019, 02:02 PM   #19
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Default Re: Second crawler, but first Axial-based: UMG10 kit or VS410 kit? Something else?

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Originally Posted by jessedacri View Post
My only hangup now is the SSD rep dude on here all but confirming there's gonna be a reveal at Proline by the Fire on another "which truck?" thread. Maybe I should wait a few weeks, but the longer I wait the more money I spend on the TRX4!
HIghly unlikely, in that case be happy and detail out your TRX-4.
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