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-   -   Holmes Team, Pro, and Custom motor Tech (http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/holmes-hobbies/402585-holmes-team-pro-custom-motor-tech.html)

JohnRobHolmes 09-14-2012 07:45 AM

Holmes Team, Pro, and Custom motor Tech
 
http://holmeshobbies.com/skin1/images/Guido.jpg


This thread is dedicated for our continued tech and development into brushed and brushless motors. Many builds that start as customs will change existing models or become a new model fit for production. Enjoy the ramblings that keep me up at night!

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start:{greasy salesman pitch}

When you have a need for power that isn't satisfied by normal motors, choose Holmes! We guarantee the finest parts and construction techniques available for your needs. Our building team has more than a combined 45 years of experience. With podium spots and overall wins at state, regional, and national events worldwide- we have what it takes to take you to the top!

Our professionally crafted brushed motors begin with Japanese quality parts and USA hand winding / assembling. Armatures feature pattern winds with specific wire sizes to suit YOUR needs. Wind termination is reinforced using high-temp silver alloys (1000f+ melting point) doped with electrical specific fluxes. We use state of the art resin to impregnated coils, ensuring long term reliability. All armatures are precision balanced on our dynamic balancing machine and the commutator is diamond trued. We finish with hand assembling of each motor, taking great care to assure that every motor is aligned, shimmed, and constructed for best performance and quality.

end{greasy salesman pitch}

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I enjoy building and designing motors. It has been a passion in my life for years, and only gets stronger by the day! I REALLY enjoy custom tailoring motors for individual needs, even with off the shelf parts. Over the past I have had the pleasure to build motors pulling from a variety of “ideals” on what the best should be, giving motion to regular Joes and the world’s best drivers alike. I also have been very fortunate to engineer motors for a variety of customers in the Aerospace, Military, Weapons, Industrial Manufacturing, and Cinematography sectors. Thanks for supporting my passion, my life.


John Robert Holmes


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Looking to find these motors for sale? Contact us through holmeshobbies.com or check out our motor section! Holmes Hobbies / Holmes Bikes :: Motors :: Brushed

Here are a few examples of Pro Custom’s we have built, some of which become other brand lines down the road like the Team Flow or Team Crawl edition. Many times I will assist in selection of a motor that is the best fit, as the options can be overwhelming if you don’t already have a favorite build type. We can also fully customize any size motors from scratch: building the can, magnet layout, laminations (stator or rotor), and winding to suit the exact needs whether it be brushed or brushless. Although our business tends to service the R/C market in higher volumes, we can also build to suit any robotic or electric vehicle system that is needed.

Set of Team Flow motors for Multi time National champ Austin Dunn. I have hung out and crawled with him for years and knew exactly what he wanted before we even went back and forth. Big power, smooth control, but not too heavy. We could have gone nuttier in any direction, but sometimes a balance is the best option.

Skewed 3 slot arms, 30t medium fill, epoxy balanced
laydown brushes
Stage 4 Lightening
flux rings for on the spot tuning and emergency torque
Black rust preventative
5.5 ounce each

http://www.holmeshobbies.com/blog/wp...IMG_0004_1.jpg

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Another pair of motors built for National champ Turbofest. James wanted light, and was building a super light rig to match. He didn’t want hammer down power as much as lightweight smoothness. I chose the Team Crawl for him. Enough oomph to get going fast, but light and super smooth down low.

5 slot CrawlMaster arm, 13t medium fill, epoxy balanced
Standup brushes
Stage 3 lightening
Black rust preventative
5.5 ounce each

http://www.holmeshobbies.com/blog/wp...so-Stealth.jpg

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JeepSoHigh wanted a set of motors that were like a sledgehammer on course, but smooth enough to have great tactile feel down low. We went with a set of Team Flow motors for him as well, at this point the Team Flow was becoming an established build type


Skewed 3 slot arm, 30t high fill, epoxy balanced
Laydown brushes
Stage 3 kit
Blue hoods
Raw Oiled steel
“light” colors
5.6 ounce each

http://www.holmeshobbies.com/blog/wp...IMG_0012_1.jpg


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Eddie from Crawler Innovations also wanted something like a sledgehammer on course, but he wanted full torque and then some. Looks were also important, he wanted them looking sharp! Drag brake was a big concern for Eddie. He wasn’t very concerned with startup, so I had the chance to make him something a bit stouter in magnets. This would be like a modified Team Flow edition. He is the first person in the US to have FB12 magnet motors, maybe the first person in the world of R/C!

Skewed 3 slot arm
Laydown brushes
Orange hoods
FB12 magnets
“blacked out”
6.6 ounce each

http://www.holmeshobbies.com/blog/wp...IMG_0008_1.jpg


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We have many many other examples of custom and Team motors, and just like this hobby the hot items are always changing. Typically we only build 5 or 10 custom pairs per week, but they are always fun to build and it is very rewarding to help people get exactly what they want! Want to see something specific or have a set of Holmes motors to share? Feel free to post up! More to come as we build em and remember to photo em...

Some fancy heatsinked motors going to Japan. These turned out looking sweet!

http://www.holmeshobbies.com/blog/wp...IMG_0009_1.jpg

A more plane jane set of Pro Customs, all black with laydown hoods. Don't remember internals.

http://www.holmeshobbies.com/blog/wp...IMG_0002_1.jpg



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Now for a set of motors for ME!! I wanted light, without compromise. I wanted smooth startup, without compromise. I wanted the BEST motors available, which means nothing "off the shelf" would do. By the end of this project, these custom motors morphed into the future of the Puller 500 motor. There was no way I could make something like this without sharing!

Modified 540 endbell
Custom armature, "540" size
3000kv
n32 neodymium magnets, 75% coverage
Aluminum faceplate
Chromoly can
31.75mm diameter (regular 540 is 36mm)
4.5 ounces light

So how did it test? Startup is as good as our flagship model, the Crawlmaster. Can't get much better than that! Ok that is a lie, I have secret motors out there with better startup :twisted: How about light? A full 2 ounces less than a regular motor! That is a 1/4 POUND dropped off my XR10! Say hello to forward weight bias without increasing my rig weight :mrgreen: Power and torque were PLENTY as well, on 3s there is no point where I got close to stalling the motors and the pep is really amazing. The best part was how cool the motors ran during the many hours of testing this past weekend. After a 40 minute pack of just beating on them, they were very cool. Certainly much cooler than my 540s run!

So what was the rub? I could use a bit more drag brake on em, as could most people. We can either use Holmes Hold to accomplish this, or I can keep working on the design and improve it as we go forwards. I think I'll try to improve the armature and magnet layout. What else to do when my job is building motion control systems all day? "thumbsup"

540 on the left, Proto Puller 500 on the right

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/attac...-v3-vs-540.jpg




Thanks for reading! I'll share more motors as we go along! I have 16 customs to wind up this morning, maybe a few will be fancy enough to share.

JohnRobHolmes 09-18-2012 07:42 AM

Re: Holmes Pro Custom and Team Pro Crawler 540 motors
 
Shown here is a set of vertically slotted armatures for a customer that wanted more low end pop and mid range power. Since this is for a crawler and not a racer we didn't go nuts removing material. The efficiency and peak torque stays high, we get the throttle feel wanted, and motor startup doesn't get unusable. A more aggressive and full length vertical slot affects startup speed to the point of being unusable unless we also weaken the magnetic field. Later today these armatures will finish the manufacturing process and be assembled into motors.

The option is available within our easy to build Pro Custom 540 Motor Holmes Hobbies / Holmes Bikes :: Motors :: Brushed :: Holmes Pro Custom 540. There is also angled and horizontal slotting for those that don't want to worsen startup speed, but still want more power. As compared to a 4mm web armature, an angled or horizontal slotted 5mm web armature has much better startup while still having higher wheelspeed and power than normal.


http://www.holmeshobbies.com/blog/wp...otted-arms.jpg

Scattman 09-18-2012 07:59 AM

Re: Holmes Pro Custom and Team Pro Crawler 540 motors
 
Me likey. "thumbsup"

Robotboy 09-18-2012 06:01 PM

Re: Holmes Pro Custom and Team Pro Crawler 540 motors
 
Very nice indeed! "thumbsup"

Mini 09-19-2012 12:33 AM

Re: Holmes Pro Custom and Team Pro Crawler 540 motors
 
Wow so many choices would want one of each :mrgreen:
Great stuff"thumbsup"

billj 09-19-2012 04:51 AM

Re: Holmes Pro Custom and Team Pro Crawler 540 motors
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mini (Post 3923933)
Wow so many choices would want one of each :mrgreen:
Great stuff"thumbsup"

What do u need motors for, you never crawl anymore:flipoff::lmao::lmao:

SVEN 09-20-2012 07:46 PM

Re: Holmes Pro Custom and Team Pro Crawler 540 motors
 
Got a chance to try out the Puller 500's in John's xr10 test rig at Nationals. I have been running Crawlmasters for a long time and the startup of the Proto Pullers felt just a smooth, maybe even smoother. Grab the trigger and the thing just begs to jump something.

Don't tell him, but when John went to go talk to someone for a while, I took the opportunity to use a good bit of his 1300 pack just to see how hot I could get the motors. Did a bunch of full throttle passes, donuts, and throttle stabs, but was unsuccessful in my attempts. The motors were barely warm. I was very impressed by every performance aspect of the Puller 500's.

JohnRobHolmes 09-26-2012 03:50 AM

Re: Holmes Pro Custom and Team Pro Crawler 540 motors
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scattman (Post 3922386)
Me likey. "thumbsup"

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robotboy (Post 3923370)
Very nice indeed! "thumbsup"

I appreciate it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mini (Post 3923933)
Wow so many choices would want one of each :mrgreen:
Great stuff"thumbsup"

I'm trying to keep the options simple and self evident, but it is really easy to pile on the options!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVEN (Post 3927046)
Got a chance to try out the Puller 500's in John's xr10 test rig at Nationals. I have been running Crawlmasters for a long time and the startup of the Proto Pullers felt just a smooth, maybe even smoother. Grab the trigger and the thing just begs to jump something.

Don't tell him, but when John went to go talk to someone for a while, I took the opportunity to use a good bit of his 1300 pack just to see how hot I could get the motors. Did a bunch of full throttle passes, donuts, and throttle stabs, but was unsuccessful in my attempts. The motors were barely warm. I was very impressed by every performance aspect of the Puller 500's.


Thanks for the review and comments Sven! I'll go through a few more protos on the Puller 500 before committing to a design, but so far they are performing pretty dang well I must say.

"Somebody" wanted some custom motors for a top secret project, and off the shelf armatures just won't cut it. So I started modeling up the magnetic circuit since I couldn't sleep. Basic square circuit at first so I can judge the flux intensity at 20 turns and 50 amps. Now we start shaping the head and setting airgaps and back iron thickness. Fun stuff designing from scratch! "thumbsup"

JohnRobHolmes 09-27-2012 11:41 AM

Re: Holmes Pro Custom and Team Pro Crawler 540 motors
 
1 Attachment(s)
Another armature we are working on, this time for my team drivers. This is the stock Crawlmaster armature. Even though it took first place in 2.2 Pro this year, I know that it can improve greatly. I won't reveal how though, that's my secret! Dare I strive to match the TorqueMaster in torque? :mrgreen: At the least it is a good brain exercise and will get me back in the swing of Maxwell's equations.

vader2728 10-01-2012 09:21 AM

Re: Holmes Pro Custom and Team Pro Crawler 540 motors
 
Email sent...

JohnRobHolmes 10-01-2012 02:39 PM

Re: Holmes Pro Custom and Team Pro Crawler 540 motors
 
1 Attachment(s)
Got it, I'll send one back tomorrow when I get to my email computer.

A great start to some custom arms for my competitive drivers. Not only did they pull first place in every class at comp nats this year, they got first in all the Scale classes too! I owe them some work!

First step is to take out the "hot spots" where it saturates first. Second part is to bump up the ability to generate torque. Done and done.

Sagami lamination saturates at 90 amps in air. Holmes lamination saturates at 140a. When I get back home to a powerful computer I will throw some magnets and back iron into the equation and re-run it. I can only run one phase at a time (crappy computer) so the values will be lower with a fully energized arm.

A little shot of the Holmes 5p armature doing work, almost a full eclipse tonight!.

JohnRobHolmes 10-03-2012 03:21 PM

Re: Holmes Pro Custom and Team Pro Crawler 540 motors
 
This is a set of motors for a team driver that wanted smooth low end, but big drag brake, torque, and high wheelspeed. We opted for a set of Team Flow motors, built as customs in all black with upgraded magnets. FB12 magnets, 30t high fill wire, 10mm comm, XX springs, silver brushes, and alloy hardware rounded out the build. We will be changing both Team Flow and Team Crawl to FB12 strength magnets when the next shipment of parts arrives.


http://www.holmeshobbies.com/blog/wp...-Team-Flow.jpg

JohnRobHolmes 10-05-2012 03:09 PM

Re: Holmes Pro Custom and Team Pro Crawler 540 motors
 
FB12 magnet cans are available with complete motors through the Pro Custom motor builder! Right now they are a $15 upgrade, only 7 cans are left. In 8 weeks we will have a large supply and the price will fall to a $5 upgrade.

Manning 10-05-2012 05:31 PM

Re: Holmes Pro Custom and Team Pro Crawler 540 motors
 
What does the FB12 magnets do to the startup? Is the effect any different from the 3 pole to 5 pole arms?

JohnRobHolmes 10-05-2012 05:46 PM

Re: Holmes Pro Custom and Team Pro Crawler 540 motors
 
It makes the startup a little harsher. Decreases the KV a bit too, 3% on everything I have measured. With a 5 slot it isn't very noticeable. On 3 slot you could tell, drag and brake goes up. The hold on a TorqueMaster arm is really strong. I've been building them up with skewed arms to negate the effect and give a bit of drag and torque back.

If you want performance, there is no reason to run a weaker magnet if startup is acceptable unless price is dictating otherwise. If I had my way all motors would be Neo magged, but the price point won't allow for all people to afford them.

JohnRobHolmes 10-05-2012 10:34 PM

Re: Holmes Pro Custom and Team Pro Crawler 540 motors
 
1 Attachment(s)
More work on a new armature, for my own rigs and driving team. Shown here is a magnetic representation of the current lamination shape, pink represents saturation of the armature at 80 amps. So of course I have to try it and beat it. Efficiency, torque, and brake will increase. Combined with Neo Magnets it will make one helluva motor.

team3six 10-05-2012 10:38 PM

Re: Holmes Pro Custom and Team Pro Crawler 540 motors
 
I'm getting Excited. and anxious

JohnRobHolmes 10-05-2012 10:43 PM

Re: Holmes Pro Custom and Team Pro Crawler 540 motors
 
10 weeks minimum on that little project, it takes a while to collect parts from all the various vendors.

team3six 10-05-2012 10:55 PM

Re: Holmes Pro Custom and Team Pro Crawler 540 motors
 
I hear ya there John. BTW, I damn well forgot to grab them Brushes from you at Champs.
I gotta order 4 motors from you soon. so I think I'll wait and see where this goes and get everything all together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes (Post 3950504)
10 weeks minimum on that little project, it takes a while to collect parts from all the various vendors.


JohnRobHolmes 10-11-2012 01:17 PM

Re: Holmes Pro Custom and Team Pro Crawler 540 motors
 
2 Attachment(s)
The following set of motors is for multi-time National Champ J. Ripplinger. They are truly a custom set of motors. The endbell is machined and assembled from 540 parts. The can is made from chromoly. The faceplate is machined from aluminum. Setscrews for the can are stainless, and hardware to hold the endbell is 7075 aluminum. I populated the cans with N34 neodymium magnets with a special layout for best startup and low speed resolution. The timing rings are machined from fiberglass. Armatures were custom built for me by Sagami for prototype work. I wound them to just over 2500kv, a very peppy wind that is perfect for Ripplinger's style of driving. The pair of motors weighs 250 grams on the nose. A full 1/4 pound less than a pair of regular 540s! This motor is likely to become the Team Crawl edition Puller 500.

Many people have been demo'ing a very similar motor at USRCCA and Scale nats. They are very smooth driving, certainly worth the effort to build! "thumbsup"


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