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Thread: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Rock Crawler motors- Lay down the Power!

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Old 12-17-2015, 12:26 PM   #81
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Default Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

John - I think you meant the stock Bomber is the same as the Yeti - with the transfer case and all.

From the respective manuals:
Name:  Gear Ratios.png
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But nonetheless, that is a great explanation of the tangible differences in KV, thanks

Last edited by mikebecher; 12-17-2015 at 12:29 PM. Reason: cause I wanted to
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Old 12-17-2015, 12:35 PM   #82
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Default Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

The final ratio is the same from wraith to Bomber (as I understood reading through the manual), but the transmissions have different internal ratios to get there. The chart you posted has diff x internal ratio, and multiply that by spur/pinion to get final.
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Old 12-17-2015, 01:51 PM   #83
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Default Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

Ah, I found the discrepancy - I was using Wraith Spawn ratios which differ from the original Wraith (32p vs 48p). So John is right (of course!) the Bomber and Wraith (non-Spawn) ARE essentially the same ratio...
Bomber: 64/12 x 5.67 = 30.22
Yeti: 64/16 x 5.67 = 22.67
Spawn: 56/12 x 7.60 = 35.47
Wraith: 80/20 x 7.60 = 30.40

And I found another typo the Spawn manual The tranny (52/20) and diff (38/13) ratio is 7.6 NOT 7.2 as published. Axial needs to hire a (better?) proofreader.
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Old 12-17-2015, 10:00 PM   #84
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Default Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

So it looks like I need to drop pinion to a 10 tooth. I can't go any bigger on the spur without removing the shroud and I'm underdriven in the rear axle so not much else I can do. Even if I geared everything as low as possible with what's available the 3500 would still be way too fast. That's why I went with the 2200 this time. I feel like I'm missing something. I try to follow all the rules and I end up with a warmer motor that cogs. Lol. Somebody should take my toys away before I hurt myself.
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Old 12-17-2015, 10:34 PM   #85
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Default Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

Add a little punch control, and medium startup. Not every situation can take full voltage surges without issue. The first choice is for your intended wheelspeed, utility is most important of all. Even with a little more motor heat, if the system works then you have found what you need! If 2200kv wasn't usedul I wouldn't have made it a choice.
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Old 12-18-2015, 11:03 AM   #86
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Default Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

Thanks again John. I am very happy with this motor and its performance. I'm going to make the changes you suggested tonight and I'll post up my test results which I'm sure will be positive.
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Old 12-18-2015, 10:34 PM   #87
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Default Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

Ok so I added 20% punch control and went from high to medium startup power. I then set my throttle endpoint back to 100% forward and laid into it. Zero cogging, zero hesitation, no more noise, and after a good 30 minute test I'm sure she's running cooler as well. Thanks John for the help and education. I'm ecstatic at the way she runs now. More wheel speed than I'll ever need or use and even better low speed control compared to my 3500 which was already awesome just a little high strung for my purpose. Overall, I know I made the right choice switching to a lower kv for this build and am completely happy with the outcome. Curious to see now what my run times look like. I get to find that out tomorrow. I'm psyched.
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Old 12-18-2015, 10:54 PM   #88
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Default Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

That's awesome!
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Old 12-31-2015, 08:13 AM   #89
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Default Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

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Originally Posted by SCREAMER View Post
Ok so I added 20% punch control and went from high to medium startup power. I then set my throttle endpoint back to 100% forward and laid into it. Zero cogging, zero hesitation, no more noise, and after a good 30 minute test I'm sure she's running cooler as well. Thanks John for the help and education. I'm ecstatic at the way she runs now. More wheel speed than I'll ever need or use and even better low speed control compared to my 3500 which was already awesome just a little high strung for my purpose. Overall, I know I made the right choice switching to a lower kv for this build and am completely happy with the outcome. Curious to see now what my run times look like. I get to find that out tomorrow. I'm psyched.
I am very much a noob and looking into my first rig. Most likely a wraith spawn. Initially, I was following Harleys wraith budget build videos whereby he ends up with a Roc 412 3100kv which seemed to be a good choice for what I wanted to do. However, I am noticing those videos are over a year old and since then new stuff has come out such as the HH Puller Pro. This motor seems to be very popular now. so I am trying to get up to speed on the new stuff. Although it's pretty overwhelming. Ha!

With that said, I have read through all of these posts and from what it sounds like, I would like to run my wraith similar to how you are Screamer. Good technical crawler and not too speedy. However, I don't really have anything to compare too when folks talk about "too fast" or "slow enough for crawling". Screamer, any chance you could post some videos of your rig at full speed and crawling with the 2200kv in it? What gearing did you end up with?

Thanks!
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Old 12-31-2015, 11:35 AM   #90
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Default Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

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Originally Posted by Drm31078 View Post
I am very much a noob and looking into my first rig. Most likely a wraith spawn. Initially, I was following Harleys wraith budget build videos whereby he ends up with a Roc 412 3100kv which seemed to be a good choice for what I wanted to do. However, I am noticing those videos are over a year old and since then new stuff has come out such as the HH Puller Pro. This motor seems to be very popular now. so I am trying to get up to speed on the new stuff. Although it's pretty overwhelming. Ha!

With that said, I have read through all of these posts and from what it sounds like, I would like to run my wraith similar to how you are Screamer. Good technical crawler and not too speedy. However, I don't really have anything to compare too when folks talk about "too fast" or "slow enough for crawling". Screamer, any chance you could post some videos of your rig at full speed and crawling with the 2200kv in it? What gearing did you end up with?

Thanks!
If you're worried about too much top speed, 2200kv is probably a good choice. The 3500kv in my wraith is good for 17MPH with 12/56 gearing and underdrive gears in the rear, way more than I need but it's really a blast.

Crawling wise, you can watch mine (the blue one) crawl in this video, you can see it's perfectly crawlable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwEzXBVWtUw
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Old 12-31-2015, 11:58 AM   #91
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Default Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

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Originally Posted by HahnsB2 View Post
If you're worried about too much top speed, 2200kv is probably a good choice. The 3500kv in my wraith is good for 17MPH with 12/56 gearing and underdrive gears in the rear, way more than I need but it's really a blast.

Crawling wise, you can watch mine (the blue one) crawl in this video, you can see it's perfectly crawlable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwEzXBVWtUw
Hahns, thanks for the response. Nice crawling video! Looks like a lot of fun...any videos of your top speed? What battery are you using 2s or 3s?

I am curious what Screamers top speed is with his 2200.
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Old 12-31-2015, 12:15 PM   #92
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Default Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

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Originally Posted by HahnsB2 View Post
Crawling wise, you can watch mine (the blue one) crawl in this video, you can see it's perfectly crawlable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwEzXBVWtUw
Great performance and equally great looking Wraith.
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Old 12-31-2015, 12:57 PM   #93
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Default Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

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Originally Posted by Drm31078 View Post
Hahns, thanks for the response. Nice crawling video! Looks like a lot of fun...any videos of your top speed? What battery are you using 2s or 3s?

I am curious what Screamers top speed is with his 2200.
Ah, great point. I use 3s batteries. I'd bet a 3500kv on 2s would be much like a 2200kv on 3s. It's a nice day and I've got the day off work, I'll see if I can record a quick vid in the driveway.



Here's the vid. Driveway's a bit frosty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ufj...ature=youtu.be

Last edited by HahnsB2; 12-31-2015 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 12-31-2015, 09:36 PM   #94
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Default Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

hahns, your videos convinced me on the 3500 vs the 3300 stubby! I have a 3s pack and will try gearing it as low as possible.

I just placed roughly 6 orders for the 3500 and BLE pro... none of them have went through.

My VW dirty diesel gift card is paying for this upgrade and doesn't seem to like paypal that much!
Looks like I will have to wait until Monday to get my order in.
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Old 01-01-2016, 10:22 AM   #95
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Default Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

I ordered the same combo for an AR60 axled monster truck build with the Proline Destroyer tires on Clod wheels......judging by your video it's going to be insane!
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Old 01-01-2016, 09:10 PM   #96
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Default Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

Sorry for the delayed response, hopefully this info is still helpful. I only run 3S batteries on everything I own and on the bomber specifically I am geared 13/64 and on 3S top speed is right at 17mph. This goes back to what I was saying before about how motors are feeling quicker on the bomber than they are on similarly geared Wraiths. I'm not arguing that the Wraith and Bomber have similar final gear reduction but for whatever reason, the same KV motor feels faster to me and others on the Bomber. My friends are running 3500kv Holmes motors that would have blown the doors off of my Wraith with a 3500 in it and 12/56 gearing. With the 2200 i did pick up more noticeable low speed control and it's now starting to look like longer battery life.

Edit: After watching Hahns second video again I can confidently say my 2200kv Puller Pro standard is AT LEAST as fast as his. I really couldn't believ it myself the first time I pulled the trigger. I was sure I installed the wrong kv motor.

Last edited by SCREAMER; 01-01-2016 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 01-02-2016, 10:22 AM   #97
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Default Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

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Originally Posted by SCREAMER View Post
Sorry for the delayed response, hopefully this info is still helpful. I only run 3S batteries on everything I own and on the bomber specifically I am geared 13/64 and on 3S top speed is right at 17mph. This goes back to what I was saying before about how motors are feeling quicker on the bomber than they are on similarly geared Wraiths. I'm not arguing that the Wraith and Bomber have similar final gear reduction but for whatever reason, the same KV motor feels faster to me and others on the Bomber. My friends are running 3500kv Holmes motors that would have blown the doors off of my Wraith with a 3500 in it and 12/56 gearing. With the 2200 i did pick up more noticeable low speed control and it's now starting to look like longer battery life.

Edit: After watching Hahns second video again I can confidently say my 2200kv Puller Pro standard is AT LEAST as fast as his. I really couldn't believ it myself the first time I pulled the trigger. I was sure I installed the wrong kv motor.
IIRC, you need a 10t pinion in a Bomber to match the gearing in my Wraith, so yours is higher geared overall. My pinion/spur/tranny overall ratio is 12.1, your pinion/spur/tranny/transfercase overall ratio is 9.57. So mine's geared more than 26% lower than yours, which isn't insignificant.
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Old 01-02-2016, 11:04 AM   #98
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Default Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

I was going to say, on stock gearing the wraith on 3500kv and 3s is much faster than hahns video. I've been running the stock gearing for purposes of torture and startup testing.
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Old 01-02-2016, 12:03 PM   #99
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Default Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

ok so i have a yeti pick up a tekin rx8 esc now i'm sure what motor to run ,
do i run the tekin pro 4 hd 3000 kv ? . or the holmes hobbies puller pro bl 540 xl 3500v .some in put will be great .i will mostly running 2 s and 3s
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Old 01-02-2016, 01:59 PM   #100
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Default Re: Puller Pro Brushless 4 pole Sensored motors- Lays down the Power!

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Originally Posted by HahnsB2 View Post
Ah, great point. I use 3s batteries. I'd bet a 3500kv on 2s would be much like a 2200kv on 3s. It's a nice day and I've got the day off work, I'll see if I can record a quick vid in the driveway.



Here's the vid. Driveway's a bit frosty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ufj...ature=youtu.be
Hahns, that top end speed is plenty for me. I guess if I want it slower I could go 56/10 instead of 12?
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