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Old 07-14-2014, 06:42 AM   #41
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Default Re: bigger than 2.2

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Originally Posted by klampykixx View Post
between 1.9 and 2.2 there isnt much difference, and nor is there between 1.55 and 1.9. theres room for 2.5 inch rims for sure !!

the valves are just one way check valves Mini HOT Sell 3 Pairs SET NON Return Plastic Tank Aquarium AIR Pump Check Valves | eBay
Thank you for the link. I agree with what you are saying about 1.55 1.7 1.9 2.2 => 2.5. If I was in charge of the tire sizes I would do something on the lines of 1.55 (stock 1:10 scale) , 1.9 (stock 1:8 scale) , 2.2 (stock 1:7 scale) , 2.6 (stock 1:6 scale).

I found some inner tubes on ebay, and I contacted the seller because some sizes are interior, some exterior. In general 8x2in (200x50mm) is the smallest, although noone in specific about whether the 8in or 200mm refers to external diameter or internal.
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Old 07-14-2014, 06:50 AM   #42
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Default Re: bigger than 2.2

if youre talking about this type of tube, 200x50 8"X2" Inner Tube Tire GAS Pocket Bike Razor 8'' | eBay

im fairly certain its the ri m size it suits. like my mountain bike, the tube is rated to 26" which is the rim size and then its 2" thick/wide

i think for a larger 1/5 scale truck it would be good, but then we are starting to get really big and may as well just start running things like push trolley wheels, or ride on mower wheels, etc.

in fact, id love to do a full remote control ride on mower, but built as a scale truck rather than mower.
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Old 07-14-2014, 08:33 AM   #43
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Default Re: bigger than 2.2

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Originally Posted by klampykixx View Post

i think for a larger 1/5 scale truck it would be good, but then we are starting to get really big and may as well just start running things like push trolley wheels, or ride on mower wheels, etc.

in fact, id love to do a full remote control ride on mower, but built as a scale truck rather than mower.
Unbelievable, that's exactly what I have in mind to do when I gather enough skill and material, with the difference that I intend to drive it myself, not with a remote control !

Also, some very important thing about tire scale that I just rembered is that in fact 2.2 does not scale to a 13in wheel in 1:6 or 15in in 1:7 but to a 14in / 16in respectively, because the outer lip that holds the tire is proportinally much bigger than the 1:1 scale lip.
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Old 07-14-2014, 08:39 AM   #44
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Default Re: bigger than 2.2

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Originally Posted by klampykixx View Post
if youre talking about this type of tube, 200x50 8"X2" Inner Tube Tire GAS Pocket Bike Razor 8'' | eBay

im fairly certain its the ri m size it suits. like my mountain bike, the tube is rated to 26" which is the rim size and then its 2" thick/wide
Yes, this is the one I am referring to. From the appearance, it looks the same as a pictures of 4" inner tubes, this is why I believe the 8in/200mm refers to the outside diameter.

Here is a link that is in agreement with my opinion:
1/6th Chevy Monster Truck
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Old 07-17-2014, 08:51 AM   #45
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Default Re: bigger than 2.2

I did some research and this is my summary:

Types of air tires
Air tires come fundamentally in two flavors, with inner tube and without inner tube, also known as tubeless.

Tires with inner tube

The standard inner tube sizes are:

6x1 1/4 in (152x32mm , 150x30mm) external, 3.5" (89mm) internal
7x1 3/4 in (178x44mm , 180x45mm) external, 3.5" (89mm) internal
8x2 in (203x51mm , 200x50mm) external, 4" (100mm) internal

Note: internal measurements are approximate, based on external measurements.

Tubeless tires
If you do not want to use inner tubes you can use a bicycle tire sealant to reinforce the inside of thin and soft R/C tires and hopefully to prevent flat tires.
There are many tire sealants on the market but 95% of them stay liquid inside the tire so are useless to R/C. The only one I found that dries out is:

Schwalbe Doc Blue Pro

Note: I have not tested it yet.

I do not think there is any more theoretical information on the subject, however if there is, please let me know and I will update the post.

Last edited by OneSixthScaleRC; 07-17-2014 at 08:52 AM. Reason: update
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Old 07-18-2014, 02:31 AM   #46
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Default Re: bigger than 2.2

definitely good value information for sure.

thanks
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Old 07-18-2014, 01:13 PM   #47
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Default Re: bigger than 2.2

I have been through this as well...researching tubes and sealants.

But once I focused on tuning my foams, I abandoned the idea. Reason was because I felt that a tube would not allow the tire to conform to the rocky terrain. The rubber is hard enough on a 40 series rok lok I wanted to keep the carcass flex.

I had my reasons, but I am wondering why yall are considering using air in the first place? Is it to make the tire bigger? Is it for scale reasons? Cool factor?

I had thought about running a tube at a very low pressure....not enough to expand the tire. If you were to expand the tire any amount...I would imagine it would lead to major traction loss. Also, who wants to deal with tubes if they don't fit or work perfectly?

I think think a person could tape the inside of the tire up, glue the bead well, and run tubeless with an appropriate valve. (i had felt that a small plastic T glued into the wheel and using a 3mm machine screw to seal the T would be how I would do it)
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Old 07-18-2014, 02:07 PM   #48
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Default Re: bigger than 2.2

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Originally Posted by 67mustang View Post
I have been through this as well...researching tubes and sealants.

But once I focused on tuning my foams, I abandoned the idea. Reason was because I felt that a tube would not allow the tire to conform to the rocky terrain. The rubber is hard enough on a 40 series rok lok I wanted to keep the carcass flex.

I had my reasons, but I am wondering why yall are considering using air in the first place? Is it to make the tire bigger? Is it for scale reasons? Cool factor?
I agree with everything you say.

The reason I personally and assume other people too use air are these:

1) it's how 1:1 tires work

2) some people like to think out of the box, to do things differently (cool factor), others for the pleasure of experimenting (me). even if it does not work, at least I know for myself it doesn't work because "been there, done that". and as far as my tests are concerned it does work!

3) "The stock baja claws are 145mm height and 52,5mm width and when inflated to 35mmHg (0.67psi / 0,05bar) they become 160mm (6.3in) height and 60mm (2.4in) width. They look very scale as they have a nice round sidewall and tread pattern!"

Scale factor: Air increases outside diameter but most importantly it makes tires look realistic because it gives them a round profile instead of the square one with foam.

4)"I have done some testing to see the difference between air and foam (would like to make more in the future) and air has the same if not more traction than foam when it is at the right pressure. Also, air is just a bit more bouncy than foam, but not to the point it's annoying.

In fact if you use air, you will not want to use foam anymore because the bouncyness makes it sooo scale!
After being used to air, when I used foam I was very displeased because it made the whole suspension behave like inert matter (it's difficult to explain, try to imagine the difference between an inflated basketball and a deinflated one)"

Air does not improve traction or performance as far as my limited tests indicate but they enable you to adjust the stiffness of the tires by simply modifying air pressure on the fly (using a sphygmomanometer pressure gauge), instead of switching foams, so if tuned properly can have better performance that using one type of foam for all surfaces.

But most importantly, for scale addicts, it gives your R/C bounciness which is what even the most realistic looking crawler lacks. It really makes your crawler look real. I have a video of my 1:6 Jeep on my computer (I will upload it on youtube if people are interested) and objectively, if I were new to R/C, I would have mistaken it for a real one!
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Old 07-18-2014, 02:31 PM   #49
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Default Re: bigger than 2.2

Yes. I kind of figured those were the answers. I just had to ask. I've seen your jeep and it looks great. I agree that there would be a "perfect" pressure for every terrain and tuning would be fun. I just kinda thought that maybe in the pursuit, you could actually end up losing traction.

Bouncy down the trail - sounds like fun. I didn't think about what it would be like controlling an rc with air filled tire. I know what you mean by "inert" with foams. I'm gonna try air someday.
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Old 07-18-2014, 02:38 PM   #50
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Default Re: bigger than 2.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67mustang View Post
But once I focused on tuning my foams, I abandoned the idea. Reason was because I felt that a tube would not allow the tire to conform to the rocky terrain. The rubber is hard enough on a 40 series rok lok I wanted to keep the carcass flex.

I had thought about running a tube at a very low pressure....not enough to expand the tire. If you were to expand the tire any amount...I would imagine it would lead to major traction loss. Also, who wants to deal with tubes if they don't fit or work perfectly?
That is exactly the reasoning I had. So I first researched tube sizes, see post #45, and thought the 7x1 3/4 is pretty close to large 2.2 tires if run at low pressure, as you said. For smaller tires the 6x1 1/4 should fit.

My 1/6 Jeep is 6kg (13.2lb) and in general 1/6 scale R/Cs are heavy, so hopefully the added stiffness due to the inner tube and air pressure will not be felt. On the other hand, because the shape of the inner tube does not match that of the tire, the tire will "slip" in relation to the inner tube, so I agree with you that it may not conform that well.

We can go on like this spotting theoretical weaknesses but that will not answer definitely if inner tubes work. The only solution to the question is to test them, and that is what I will do, hopefully, next week, when the inner tube that I ordered will arrive (I'll keep the thread updated).

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67mustang View Post
I think think a person could tape the inside of the tire up, glue the bead well, and run tubeless with an appropriate valve. (i had felt that a small plastic T glued into the wheel and using a 3mm machine screw to seal the T would be how I would do it)
In general, inner tube technology is the technology of yesterday, and tubeless is the technology of today and tomorrow, so you are fully justified in preferring tubeless. Tubeless has all the advantages of air minus the disadvantages of inner tubes!

But that again is only theory, not because our physical world does not obey physics laws, but because RC4WD sells tires that are made of soft rubber compound that is too thin and soft to be used as a tubeless setup .
It can be done, and I have done it and it works and looks good, see post #11. But, the problem is the increased chance of punctures, and that will not change if you tape the tires. The tires need either to be made from thicker and harder compound rubber or somehow be reinforced with fiber cloth and a thick coat of rubber sealant in the inside, which in my opinion is rather difficult and time consuming to achieve.

But if RC4WD made a special thick and hard rubber compound that does not get easily punctured, then I would put inner tubes aside and go tubeless. I would nevertheless apply a layer of sealant inside, just in case, because where I live the vegetation is thorny.

Last edited by OneSixthScaleRC; 07-18-2014 at 03:16 PM. Reason: update
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Old 07-18-2014, 03:52 PM   #51
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Default Re: bigger than 2.2

Here is a video of the air filled tires in action. View in 1080p for maximum scale realism.

Note: The tires were overinflated and for this reason are slightly stiffer and wider than they should be.





Here is, in comparison, a video of a 1:1 Jeep JK where you can clearly see the "bouncy" effect of its air filled tires.


Last edited by OneSixthScaleRC; 07-19-2014 at 01:46 AM. Reason: note
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Old 07-19-2014, 08:04 PM   #52
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Default Re: bigger than 2.2

Watch this video!

Last edited by twissted; 11-06-2016 at 10:44 PM.
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