1/6 Wraith/Nylint TJ Jeep + scale quad

[stelerzman]

[TacoCrawler]

edit: 1-2-2016 *

---original context removed---

because I was originally paranoid that these links
might possibly restrict the suspension's articulation some.
But I was unfounded in my worry.

The Ti links articulate well and with no DS interference
Possibly even longer shocks could be utilized if one wanted.

* update...
these Ti links and Revo ball ends have held up admirably.
worthy investment IMO

[Mike Flea]

Taco, just my opinion, last 3 photos look right, uppers- bend closer to trans output, lowers should be straight instead of bent, I think you'll get more clearance on the driveshaft. OR, flip your skid around so the driveshaft is crossing from right side to left side pumpkins, if that makes any sense?, just trying to help out

[cmbscx10]

Man those links look nice. It looks like a 30deg bend? Even with the corrected pinion angle they still hit?

[TacoCrawler]

^ I'll guess if I lowered the front axle's pinion angle...
it still wouldn't be enough.

oddly... the rear DS looks to be inline !?
even weirder because both front and rear links
are supposed to be the same length.

So I'm not sure why the front axle's pinion angle
is elevated up (clocked) more then the rear ? :dunno:

no biggie tho' 'cuz I can shim the link ends later
to bring the front pinion/DS more into line.

[TacoCrawler]

Originally Posted by Mike Flea

Taco, just my opinion, last 3 photos look right, uppers- bend closer to trans output, lowers should be straight instead of bent, I think you'll get more clearance on the driveshaft. OR, flip your skid around so the driveshaft is crossing from right side to left side pumpkins, if that makes any sense?, just trying to help out

Thanks for your input Mike...

Ti Mike shows his Wraith with the bends forward.

I don't want to alter the drive shafts...
as I already had enough hassle getting the length I needed...
If I cross angle those... I'd need to purchase something else.

And I'm trying to keep the costs down to a reasonable budget.

As it is... using the Deadbolt DS design...
I had to add a single, slightly longer female end...
to each DS...
so that they'll have less free play/stroke.

These WB8's should get it done...
but the upper links just simply need more rise and bend to them.

Like I said... I might be able to utilize the supershafty risers
but dang... I'd rather not.

edit: damn... is everybody's name Mike ?! Lol

oh and the lower high clearance links are fine...
they don't need be straight... nor cause interference

If belly clearance is not of interest...
then I suppose straight links would work fine.

But I want that added belly clearance.

edit:

heck I had tried numerous link positions...
wondering why it did not clear...
and somehow mixed up the lower with uppers
in the front.

So that is why the front axle was clocked excessively
and the DS/pinion angle was more severe.

Fixed that and the pinion aligns correctly.
But it doesn't make the upper links clear the DS
any better.

[stelerzman]

In the first picture of your last post it looks like you've clocked the front axle too much. I know what your tring to do but, too much. Try leveling out the front and then see where you get into the upper links.
You can tune the shocks to minimize the bind.

[TacoCrawler]

Originally Posted by stelerzman

In the first picture of your last post it looks like you've clocked the front axle too much. I know what your tring to do but, too much. Try leveling out the front and then see where you get into the upper links.
You can tune the shocks to minimize the bind.

I edited my last post... pointing out muh booger
that has since been corrected.

What I'm trying to do...

is understand how much articulation will occur...
and at what ride height I will be able to clear the DS - upper links.

I personally feel the the upper links should have more rise
thus allowing me to sit somewhat squatter when static.
And offer more DS - link clearance when articulated.

T. Mike has already had to redo these links once...
and doesn't really want the hassle of that or me, again.
Guessing because he thinks they're fine as is.

But when I look at the upper link to DS clearance as I
articulate the suspension it seems like the upper links
could have more rise and could better clear the DS during compression
and articulation.

I realize the shock travel length will determine how much travel
that the links will move.
But I really wanted the chassis to sit lower then most prefer.
Some (in another thread) state their static ride height is 2 3/8"
from the ground to the bottom of the belly skid !?

^ I'll hafta assume that is their static ride height...
and that compression and extension travel perimeter's
extend downwards and upwards from that neutral static point ?
Guess I should inquire for further clarification.

But if I set it at that ^ ride height...
the upper links are so close to the DS...
that even the slightest tire lift puts the DS into the upper links

If I raise the chassis to 4" then that raises the upper links higher up
and clears the DS somewhat better.
Allowing me the ability to lift the driver's side tire nearer 4"
But in doing so... IMO compromises the COG and sits too tall.

Guess I still don't think the upper link(s) clear the DS as well they could !?
And that minimally at static ride height...
the lower links should be running parallel with the belly skid.

My theory is this...

Because I have extended the wheel base from 13.9" to 15.5"
the normal upper link rise for the shorter wheel base Wraith...
would need less rise to clear.

But with the extended link length's the rise needs be higher to clear.

Maybe I'm missing something ?

I really would rather have the upper link rise (bend) nearer the axle(s)
as I will have more room for the upper links to reside during compression.

If the rise (bend) is near the center skid side...
then there's more possibility of under body interference...
well that I see anyways.

When I look at a picture of T Mikes personal Wraith build...
the rise (bend) is positioned towards the axle side.

I'd like to have these upper link redone...
offering more rise (bend) to insure I will clear the DS.
T. Mike thinks they're fine...
and that I just need elevate the chassis's static ride height enough.
But I personally feel that is not correct.

Kinda sucks having to do custom link lengths...
and figuring out what geometry changes Vs. the stock link lengths.

Most link venders offering their skills to do this...
only know how to copy the original rise (bend) that fits
what the original wheel base is on a stock rig.
Not intending insult... it's just my opinion.

I already have $ 100. invested in these links...
and I'm not really happy with the uppers DS clearence.

But because T Mike thinks the rise (bend) is good enough for a stock Wraith...
it should be good enough for mine ?
So T Mike is not really wanting to hassle with my principles/theories.

So I guess I only have two options...

Pony up mo' $$ and ask T Mike to build me another set of upper links
to my specifications (more rise - steeper bend)

or

purchase the skid plate riser kit that super shafty offers. : $$ :

Either proposition is going to suck mo' $$ from my bank

But the SS riser kit may still not be enough and I couldn't be sure
unless I purchase that to find out.

bottom line... I don't think these upper links are going to cut it
as they are currently. (at least not for my intended chassis set up)

If it were for a street or flat ground runner... probably be fine...
But I wanting max flex and articulation and need all the clearance
that can be afforded.

realize this build is not a common Wraith build...
and that the extended wheel base will likely change the geometry slightly.

meh... my head hurts thinking about it.

Maybe someone here can point out that my theories are unfounded.
and that I'm just plain wrong worrying about it ?

[Mike Flea]

Best thing you can do for yourself right now, Taco, is put the whole chassis together, minus the body, and test run it over a rocky or uneven course to see how it handles, and if there is any binding. Second, once you're happy with the outcome of the first test, is add the weight of the body to the chassis, to see if it makes a drastic difference. Minimal rubbing or binding can usually be taken out with shock adjustments or where they are mounted. Major binding or locking up will bring you back to your links.

[stelerzman]

With this large scale rig, you maybe tring to go over board with articulation. If you think about it, even at 1/10 scale, you'd have 4' of articulation on a 1:1. There aren't a lot of 1:1 offroad rigs with 4' of articulation.
My only suggestion is put everything together and see what you have.

My Willy's only has 3.25" of flex, and that's overkill to me.

[TacoCrawler]

Originally Posted by Mike Flea

Best thing you can do for yourself right now, Taco, is put the whole chassis together, minus the body, and test run it over a rocky or uneven course to see how it handles

Originally Posted by stelerzman

My only suggestion is put everything together and see what you have.

yep... would seem that's the common consensus.

Even T Mike suggested installing the suspension to the frame
to see what it does ?

...Guess I will weld up the frame
mount the suspension... and see what happens ?

but dang...

if I were doing this on muh 1:1
I could end up poor with wasting my money and time
and likely be ridiculed by others on those 1:1 forums.
~the boys on pirate would have me for lunch~

good thing this is just a toy
and no one here understands engineering principal's
or is more tech savvy then me

Lol/jk... I don't really think I know what I'm doing either !?

[stelerzman]

A lot of us are not mechanical engineers. Don't be so hard on yourself. Remember, this is a hobby, we're supposed to be having fun.
I do understand that things may not always be easy, and frustration can kick in.
Take your time, think things through and go for it. The only way to learn is to try.
Your doing well.

[TacoCrawler]

ha... so I've decided to ignore the susp. and chassis for the moment.

And so...
I'm starting the modifications I will need do, to alter the Nylint's interior.
Joe will need to put his feet somewhere !? (less I hack 'dem off)~[/SIZE]

But most importantly...
I need make room for the transmission that will be slightly protruding
thru and above the interior's sub floor.



The areas outlined in red will need be cut out...
and I will fabricate some drop wells for more foot area.
~The diagonal blue lines represents approx. where the trans. will protrude
tho' the opening may need be enlarged - shifted either forward or rearward slightly~



The bed liner I cut from thin steel sheet metal.
^ the body's bed sub-floor is mostly intact...
but the liner does well to cover up some holes in that~[/SIZE]

[stelerzman]

I was thinking you were going to mount the motor and tranny under the hood. Looks like I was wrong. It might make for a cleaner interior if you decided to go that route. But then again, you'll need to spend money on a transfer case. A RC4WD disruptor T-case would fit right in there with out much hacking.

Carry on.

[Mike Flea]

That's how my motor/trans sits. After I got it all fitted, I used styrene to make a modified tunnel.

And you're doing the right thing, getting frustrated only makes you want to fling the thing across the room, take a break and work on something else.

The wheelbase on my Jeep is a little over 14" and I'm getting 4" articulation, and I'm using a wraith skid also.

[cmbscx10]

I was only a Telecom Engineer and not mechanical so unless you want to hear your phone and Voip better i will not give any bad advise on your links. I can say though that when i was trying to make the bracket for the electronics on mine the links i made hit everywhere at any angle while it was in my hand. Once i put the body on and it sat at ride height i had more clearance than i knew what to do with. That was with straight upper and lower links. I did a mock articulation and it was no where near hitting the DS or my bracket for the electronics. I am not educated in suspension geometry to give and explanation. I am just happy it worked like i thought it would.

[TacoCrawler]

Originally Posted by stelerzman

I was thinking you were going to mount the motor and tranny under the hood. Looks like I was wrong. It might make for a cleaner interior if you decided to go that route. But then again, you'll need to spend money on a transfer case. A RC4WD disruptor T-case would fit right in there with out much hacking.

Carry on.

Thought of doing that... Dinky divorce or whatnot...
But then... I remembered my K.I.S.S approach to things.
And thought the Wraith drive train will have to do.

I did beef up the transmission with metal gears tho'

Originally Posted by Mike Flea

That's how my motor/trans sits. After I got it all fitted, I used styrene to make a modified tunnel.

Yeah... purdy much what I plan on doing.
I feel I have made a big enough investment already...

Brand new Wraith kit... Titanium links... steel tranny gears...
WB8 Deadbolt type drive shafts... and more then I care to remember
yeah... so much for the budget

Heck I haven't even began thinking about electronics and such

But will likely be going with a FS GT3-C... HH BRXL... Solar D772 servo...
a high torque brush motor (undecided)...
^ already have a new Castle bec in the wait. (+Link 4 adj.)

and who knows... maybe a 6s LiPo

3s if that K.I.S.S. mentality kicks in again !? Lol

[TacoCrawler]

Originally Posted by Mike Flea

And you're doing the right thing, getting frustrated only makes you want to fling the thing across the room, take a break and work on something else.

yeah... got over it and re-read...
then pondered yer words for a moment...

~made me 1/2ass chuckle~

shouldn't these 1/4" Ti links be able to endure a good wall banging !? Lol

[Mike Flea]

[TacoCrawler]

...baby steps
but things are happening
Cut the floor/foot wells out...