RCCrawler Forums

BENDER · 02-25-2005, 02:30 AM

Again nice job. Thanks for the pics. Do you have a way to mill a snap ring groove in the input shaft, instead of epoxy? You should be able to do it on your mill, put the shaft in the spindle and clamp a tool in vice (jewlers file) and sneak up on it. ;)

Rikpal · 02-25-2005, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENDER

Do you have a way to mill a snap ring groove in the input shaft, instead of epoxy? You should be able to do it on your mill, put the shaft in the spindle and clamp a tool in vice (jewlers file) and sneak up on it. ;)

That's an idea. I didn't think enough no matter how much I think

Rikpal · 03-01-2005, 11:04 AM

Time for a little update

Very little tho :lol :

I hacked the frame rails. I don't wanna just a couple of straight rails. I wanna something more scale. So I cut each rail in three part (as already shown).

These are the ends of the pieces after some milling trim.

And here's the frame. It's gonna taking shape

I started to build the tranny brackets even. Basically a couple of L profile that will be bolted on the rails, but the tranny will be angled. to low thw motors (CG pourposes) and to increase the room for axle movement. I'll take the pics tomorrow.

;)

roktoy · 03-01-2005, 11:22 AM

Nice work there and some new unique ideas!

Keep the pics coming.....

Jay

Rikpal · 03-02-2005, 04:55 AM

Thanks Jay

Tranny is gonna be in place. I still have to drill some holes, but the brackets are done. ;)

Why angled? There are some reason.
The most evident is to increase room under the tranny.
If I keep the tranny parallel to the ground the front drive shaft could hit the bottom of the tranny.
I can't mount the tranny with the output higher than the T-case output. There's the f****** hood

. But angled tranny will raise the output.
In any case I can't mount the top links in the usual position, but the moved tranny should give room to buld a link setup similar to this:

This setup could seems a bit strange, but it will act as a 2 link.
There will be a front Panhard Bar even. (I'm scared cause I have no idea how the panhard bargeometry works but it's scale so I want it

)
A side pros of the angled tranny is that motors will be lower and CG will thank ;)

SR5Dave · 03-02-2005, 11:16 AM

That is awesome Rik, I have been wanting to do something like this for a while! I love the divorced (a word we use for a separated tranny and t-case) setup!

Too cool man!

Rikpal · 03-03-2005, 04:33 AM

Thanks man

I decided to build mockup of the front suspension with parts I have laying around, just to see how this work.
Nothing is decided yet. I'm just in a thinking phase.

Well this could be an interesting different situation.
The triangulation of the short links with the long ones completely eliminates the lateral movement of the axle without any panhard bar. But the axle still have plenty of movement. The only problem could be the axle move a lot outward the "chassis", but I think this could be solved playing with links lenght and position as well.
As usual time will tell.

I still can't understand why the 1:1 rigs have a panhard bar even with 4 link setup.
[link=4wdandsportutility.com/tech/03104wd_fulltraction/]This[/link] is a review of the "Full Traction" long arm suspension for a Rubicon. There are 4 links at front and 3 links at rear but there's a panhard bar even and I can't understand why ;)
If someone have some explanation for me they will be greatly appreciated

roktoy · 03-03-2005, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikpal

I still can't understand why the 1:1 rigs have a panhard bar even with 4 link setup.
[link=4wdandsportutility.com/tech/03104wd_fulltraction/]This[/link] is a review of the "Full Traction" long arm suspension for a Rubicon. There are 4 links at front and 3 links at rear but there's a panhard bar even and I can't understand why ;)
If someone have some explanation for me they will be greatly appreciated

In a case like that, the front requires a panhard for lateral axle location. The motor & tranny location makes it hard to triangulate the four links so they end up more parallel when looking from above. The four links are mounted to outboard mounts on the axle and then up on or near the frame rails at the chassis end.

Jay

Rikpal · 03-03-2005, 08:30 AM

So it's only a "not enough triangulation" problem. I presumed it. Thanks Jay.

I wanted see a mockup of the entire rig

No other rig parts here. Axles, tranny, t-case and shafts are all in the place where they will be.
This should be the ride height. What do ya think? should I lift the body a bit or is it OK like this?
Personally I like it low.

A couple of naked pics

The front drive shaft

The rear one

And the T-case.

As you can see there a bit of clearance in the center of the rig.
I only have some doubts about the drive shafts angle.
It's less than 45 deg that crawler guru from ORCRC stated to be the maximum of the universals, but not so less ;) I can easily lower the T-case, but there's a secret plan that push me to keep it high. ;) The final center clearance should be something around 4,5/5". Now it's near to 6".

What do ya think?

SR5Dave · 03-03-2005, 09:45 AM

I think the height looks great. Keep it up man!

JasonInAugusta · 03-03-2005, 10:21 AM

Rikpal,

That'll be a cool scaler. One thing is for sure, you've got bigger balls than me. I don't think I could bring myself to sacrifice an axle to make a T-case. Good job!

Cut mammoths are going to take forever to do. :( I have yet to finish mine.

I like the extruded tubing idea as well. I had been thinking about ways to make a Bruiser-esque frame and that idea never popped into my head.

Cool deal, we need action pics!

BENDER · 03-03-2005, 10:38 AM

Rikpal,

I think the body looks perfect where it is. Nice work with the frame rails. I'm with JIA we need some action shots.

mike · 03-03-2005, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikpal

Thanks Jay

This setup could seems a bit strange, but it will act as a 2 link.
There will be a front Panhard Bar even. (I'm scared cause I have no idea how the panhard bargeometry works but it's scale so I want it

)

ya i saw the same suspension set up in one of my 4 wheel mags.
the uck looks like it will be alot of fun to drive.

RCALLOYS · 03-04-2005, 01:24 PM

Whoa, haven't checked this project in awhile. Looks like you're moving right along. I especially like the transfer case! However, like JIA said.........I couldn't bring myself to hack an axle housing

. Nice work on the shafts too, milling the flats and all. I'll be watching this project for sure!

Rikpal · 03-07-2005, 07:02 AM

Thanks to all for the kind words guys.
I'm not sure about your balls Jason

BTW I hacked a Juggy 1 axle. The bevel gears were stripped a lot, so the axle was almost worthless, but I liked to have found a way to use it.
Action pics will come for sure

and a vid even.

Now the little update.
Friday when I went home I found a 2 packages. A little one and a big one.
The little one contained the ESC for the project (Novak SR), the big one contained the mammoth wheels and tires.

Those tires are perfect in size IMO. They are a little shorter than the clod ones, but looks good. I'm going to spend some time cutting them obviously.
Now that I have the wheels I can't started to think seriously about the geometry.

I've done some work. Completed the T-case brackets and mounted it on the frame.
There's still a ton of work to be done but this thing is taking shape.

Here's a couple of mockupics with the new shoes. ;)
Obviously I need some wideners, but I'd like to narrow the rims so I'll wait a bit before build them.

Then I decided to keep the frame as it is. Battery won't be placed under the T-case.
I have to think about another position. I'd like to have it low tho.
This allow me to lower the body and the frame a bit. but center clearance is still enough.

Naked shot

I probably found a good geometry. Next step will be a couple of plates for the lower links.
Upper ones will be bolted directly on the frame.

Oh I decided to go for usual 4 links in the front even. There's enough room for that.
I have olnly a doubt and if you could help me it will be greatly appreciated.
I wanna keep the body low. that's for look and for CG reasons.
Doing it means that I have to think about a "LOTOFDROOP" suspension.
I'm gonna have the links parallel to the ground and frame at full compression. This means that during articulation the axle will "turn" a lot. What should I do? Should I ignore this to keep the great center clearance, or should I lower the links frame attaching points to correct a bit this?
What do ya think? ;)

SR5Dave · 03-07-2005, 07:29 PM

They axles will actually turn less with the links being flat than they would if they were at an angle, don't worry about it ;)

crunk crawlin · 03-07-2005, 07:42 PM

man that thing is killer . i love that tranfer case idea . are you going to repaint the body when the fabrication is done

rocpede · 03-07-2005, 07:59 PM

That Thing Is Sweet

Rikpal · 03-10-2005, 07:37 AM

Thanks for the replies guys

I don't know if I'll repaint the body. I haven't thought about that. I'll surely remove a lot of stickers tho ;)
BTW the side links mounting plates are done. Links are mounted.
I sterted to play with shocks and encoutered some problem due to the width of the frame. I mean there's not a lot of room.

I'm currently working on the rear end.
I wanna use some masking tape to keep the dampers in place

I'm not sure it will work. If not I'll build something stronger,
but the position will be more or less this.

First articulation test. Not so bad IMO
Considering it's a scale rig and this is the rear only ;)

What do ya think?

SR5Dave · 03-10-2005, 09:14 AM

I'd say that's plenty of flex, I just built a scale rig and I'd say it had less than that.

How does it look from the side on flex? Does it push the tire up into the fender?

02-25-2005, 02:30 AM	#21
BENDER 2006 2.2 National Champ Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Big Bear Lake Posts: 8,328	Nice! Again nice job. Thanks for the pics. Do you have a way to mill a snap ring groove in the input shaft, instead of epoxy? You should be able to do it on your mill, put the shaft in the spindle and clamp a tool in vice (jewlers file) and sneak up on it. ;)

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03-01-2005, 11:04 AM	#23
Rikpal Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 323	Time for a little update Very little tho :lol : I hacked the frame rails. I don't wanna just a couple of straight rails. I wanna something more scale. So I cut each rail in three part (as already shown). These are the ends of the pieces after some milling trim. And here's the frame. It's gonna taking shape I started to build the tranny brackets even. Basically a couple of L profile that will be bolted on the rails, but the tranny will be angled. to low thw motors (CG pourposes) and to increase the room for axle movement. I'll take the pics tomorrow. ;)

03-01-2005, 11:22 AM	#24
roktoy Dirt Addict Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stumblin' thru the parking lot of an invisible 7-Eleven Posts: 1,053	Nice work there and some new unique ideas! Keep the pics coming..... Jay

03-02-2005, 04:55 AM	#25
Rikpal Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 323	Thanks Jay Tranny is gonna be in place. I still have to drill some holes, but the brackets are done. ;) Why angled? There are some reason. The most evident is to increase room under the tranny. If I keep the tranny parallel to the ground the front drive shaft could hit the bottom of the tranny. I can't mount the tranny with the output higher than the T-case output. There's the f****** hood . But angled tranny will raise the output. In any case I can't mount the top links in the usual position, but the moved tranny should give room to buld a link setup similar to this: This setup could seems a bit strange, but it will act as a 2 link. There will be a front Panhard Bar even. (I'm scared cause I have no idea how the panhard bargeometry works but it's scale so I want it ) A side pros of the angled tranny is that motors will be lower and CG will thank ;)

03-02-2005, 11:16 AM	#26
SR5Dave I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 2,399	That is awesome Rik, I have been wanting to do something like this for a while! I love the divorced (a word we use for a separated tranny and t-case) setup! Too cool man!

03-03-2005, 04:33 AM	#27
Rikpal Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 323	Thanks man I decided to build mockup of the front suspension with parts I have laying around, just to see how this work. Nothing is decided yet. I'm just in a thinking phase. Well this could be an interesting different situation. The triangulation of the short links with the long ones completely eliminates the lateral movement of the axle without any panhard bar. But the axle still have plenty of movement. The only problem could be the axle move a lot outward the "chassis", but I think this could be solved playing with links lenght and position as well. As usual time will tell. I still can't understand why the 1:1 rigs have a panhard bar even with 4 link setup. [link=4wdandsportutility.com/tech/03104wd_fulltraction/]This[/link] is a review of the "Full Traction" long arm suspension for a Rubicon. There are 4 links at front and 3 links at rear but there's a panhard bar even and I can't understand why ;) If someone have some explanation for me they will be greatly appreciated

03-03-2005, 08:30 AM	#29
Rikpal Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 323	So it's only a "not enough triangulation" problem. I presumed it. Thanks Jay. I wanted see a mockup of the entire rig No other rig parts here. Axles, tranny, t-case and shafts are all in the place where they will be. This should be the ride height. What do ya think? should I lift the body a bit or is it OK like this? Personally I like it low. A couple of naked pics The front drive shaft The rear one And the T-case. As you can see there a bit of clearance in the center of the rig. I only have some doubts about the drive shafts angle. It's less than 45 deg that crawler guru from ORCRC stated to be the maximum of the universals, but not so less ;) I can easily lower the T-case, but there's a secret plan that push me to keep it high. ;) The final center clearance should be something around 4,5/5". Now it's near to 6". What do ya think?

03-03-2005, 09:45 AM	#30
SR5Dave I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 2,399	I think the height looks great. Keep it up man!

03-03-2005, 10:21 AM	#31
JasonInAugusta 06 Super National Champ Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Stark Industries Bar and Grill Posts: 11,361	Rikpal, That'll be a cool scaler. One thing is for sure, you've got bigger balls than me. I don't think I could bring myself to sacrifice an axle to make a T-case. Good job! Cut mammoths are going to take forever to do. :( I have yet to finish mine. I like the extruded tubing idea as well. I had been thinking about ways to make a Bruiser-esque frame and that idea never popped into my head. Cool deal, we need action pics!

03-03-2005, 10:38 AM	#32
BENDER 2006 2.2 National Champ Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Big Bear Lake Posts: 8,328	Rikpal, I think the body looks perfect where it is. Nice work with the frame rails. I'm with JIA we need some action shots.

03-04-2005, 01:24 PM	#34
RCALLOYS Quarry Creeper Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: St.Louis, MO. Posts: 369	Whoa, haven't checked this project in awhile. Looks like you're moving right along. I especially like the transfer case! However, like JIA said.........I couldn't bring myself to hack an axle housing . Nice work on the shafts too, milling the flats and all. I'll be watching this project for sure!

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03-07-2005, 07:02 AM	#35
Rikpal Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 323	Thanks to all for the kind words guys. I'm not sure about your balls Jason BTW I hacked a Juggy 1 axle. The bevel gears were stripped a lot, so the axle was almost worthless, but I liked to have found a way to use it. Action pics will come for sure and a vid even. Now the little update. Friday when I went home I found a 2 packages. A little one and a big one. The little one contained the ESC for the project (Novak SR), the big one contained the mammoth wheels and tires. Those tires are perfect in size IMO. They are a little shorter than the clod ones, but looks good. I'm going to spend some time cutting them obviously. Now that I have the wheels I can't started to think seriously about the geometry. I've done some work. Completed the T-case brackets and mounted it on the frame. There's still a ton of work to be done but this thing is taking shape. Here's a couple of mockupics with the new shoes. ;) Obviously I need some wideners, but I'd like to narrow the rims so I'll wait a bit before build them. Then I decided to keep the frame as it is. Battery won't be placed under the T-case. I have to think about another position. I'd like to have it low tho. This allow me to lower the body and the frame a bit. but center clearance is still enough. Naked shot I probably found a good geometry. Next step will be a couple of plates for the lower links. Upper ones will be bolted directly on the frame. Oh I decided to go for usual 4 links in the front even. There's enough room for that. I have olnly a doubt and if you could help me it will be greatly appreciated. I wanna keep the body low. that's for look and for CG reasons. Doing it means that I have to think about a "LOTOFDROOP" suspension. I'm gonna have the links parallel to the ground and frame at full compression. This means that during articulation the axle will "turn" a lot. What should I do? Should I ignore this to keep the great center clearance, or should I lower the links frame attaching points to correct a bit this? What do ya think? ;)

03-07-2005, 07:29 PM	#36
SR5Dave I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 2,399	They axles will actually turn less with the links being flat than they would if they were at an angle, don't worry about it ;)

03-07-2005, 07:42 PM	#37
crunk crawlin Pebble Pounder Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: in tha lab ( the shop ) Posts: 103	man that thing is killer . i love that tranfer case idea . are you going to repaint the body when the fabrication is done

03-07-2005, 07:59 PM	#38
rocpede RCC Addict Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Bruiser Heaven!!!! Posts: 1,463	That Thing Is Sweet

03-10-2005, 07:37 AM	#39
Rikpal Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 323	Thanks for the replies guys I don't know if I'll repaint the body. I haven't thought about that. I'll surely remove a lot of stickers tho ;) BTW the side links mounting plates are done. Links are mounted. I sterted to play with shocks and encoutered some problem due to the width of the frame. I mean there's not a lot of room. I'm currently working on the rear end. I wanna use some masking tape to keep the dampers in place I'm not sure it will work. If not I'll build something stronger, but the position will be more or less this. First articulation test. Not so bad IMO Considering it's a scale rig and this is the rear only ;) What do ya think?

03-10-2005, 09:14 AM	#40
SR5Dave I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 2,399	I'd say that's plenty of flex, I just built a scale rig and I'd say it had less than that. How does it look from the side on flex? Does it push the tire up into the fender?

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