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Old 10-23-2016, 03:37 PM   #81
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Default Re: Jato's SMT10

I think you will really be pushing the 80a.....biggest issue is your servos draw. Try the 80, see if you glitch when wiggling your servo .


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Old 10-27-2016, 01:43 PM   #82
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I think it will work, ìf the ESC is trúly '80 amps continuous' Many of the cheaper ESC's are rather optimistic, or state just the FET-rating, conveniently 'forgetting' that there are more parts in an ESC. Or have anemic 1amp BEC's that, indeed, brown-out the steering servo if pushed. (Looking at You, Castle!)

Easiest way to find out, is to use a smaller pinion than usual, and temp the ESC every 2 minutes of driving. Temp guns have become an indispensable part of my bashing sessions, and saved me many times from over-gearing/loading an ESC and/or motor. 45 degrees celsius is about right, 60 celsius and up is problematic in my experience. Motors usually begin to fade at 70 celsius.

Personally. I use the Turnigy waterproof 80amp ESC on my K4 4300kv without any issues al all, I even feed lighting and a sound module from it. Even with the towering fan on that thing, it fits nicely below the driver. Fun accidental discovery: the smd-leds on that thing are só bright, that they bathe my skully-driver in an eerie red/blue/purple glow. Pèrfect for a horror-themed truck..

So, yeah, I think 80amps will be fine. Ìf truly 80amp. At least on 2s. I haven't tried 3s because the K4 is only rated for 2s.

Last edited by Jay-Em; 10-27-2016 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 10-27-2016, 08:57 PM   #83
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While I await the sensor harness from Castle to hopefully fix my Bomber, I got time to work on my Digger.

I chose the 80A ESC and I think it will work too. I had an indoor test run tonight. I did seem to have brown outs so I think I'll have to add a BEC. I'm surprised I had issues, but the internal BEC is only 6V/2A.

The ESC is from RC Gear Shop. I'm pretty confident that HobbyWing is the OEM. I believe the OEM of the motor is also HobbyWing.



The stock transmission with plastic gears, as we know, is pathetic. It can't even handle the stock, brushed system so I doubt it would have lasted a day with the 3900kV motor I planned to install. I decided on a Vanquish transmission case and the Axial steel gears.



I'm a huge Vanquish critic based on things I've seen and past personal experience. I decided to give them another chance because the housing wasn't that expensive and I knew I would get it quickly from RPP. As always, I was less than impressed. There are machining marks and the finish is what other companies would consider blemished. But hey, at least it didn't have burrs like last VP purchase.

It's a nice piece, but not worth the hype or extra cost.



Gears installed with marine grease.



The 3900kV motor installed on the transmission.


The transmission and motor at home.


You can see the ESC, motor, and the ESS One in this photo.

Now hopefully the weather clears up so I can open it up outside, grab some air and practice my wheelies.

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Old 10-27-2016, 10:10 PM   #84
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Re: Your brown-outs.

Do You use 3s? Because the available BEC amps always drop on almost all esc's when the voltage rises. It's an oddity due to pure electonics and physics, so 2amps quickly become just 1.5, or even less. A separate BEC is, imho, always a good thing, and I use that whenever I can, especially on heavier vehicles with powerful servo's.

With the stock servo, I didn't experience any brown-outs on 2s yet, but I have an 5 amp UBEC on the ready.

By the by. I tried the 4-pole 3520kv motor that came with the current waterproof Turnigy 80 amp on my GD. I could juuust squeeze a 17t pinion in the gearbox. The effect was a bit less top speed, but whhhooooboy. That thing pùlls! I hope Axial will release smaller spurs, because the current one is just too much geared towards crawling. I wouldn't be surprised if that Turnigy 3520 4-pole could run an 18t with a smaller spur, and give all Bombers the bye, bye on the straights, but I kind of balk at having to modify the motor adjustment slots to get that 18t in.

Re: Vanquish.

I cannot help it, but feel it is over-priced and over-hyped. Let alone the simple fact that overhere, in Europe, we pay a premium for American made parts. 21% VAT to start, and big shipping-costs for even the tiniest stuff.

It's absolutely not bad parsé, and looks pretty fancy, machine marks et all, but I have used many maligned other manufacturers' aluminium, and steel parts (GPM, Integy, HB etc), and never felt the need to go Vanquish. 'Worse' even, I never felt the need to go all aluminium apart from a few, chosen parts with weaknesses, say, swingarms and uprights (Traxxas Slash f.i.that constantly broke the front&rear uprights). Plastics have always served me well.

But, having said that, I am not a hard-core basher and/or crawler, and do not standard believe in the mantra that everything should be solved with more Cubic Inches, or in our case, more volts. A small, 50cm long car that goes 60km/h is fast enough for me.. Above that, its no longer fun for me, and becomes expensive pretty fast :p
(Yes, I have an EXO that ticks 90km/h, but that broke parts almost every run, and is now languishing in the attic in a box. I also have an HPI c1 Apache that gets 80+km/h in the rough, and can stand that, but it makes me mighty nervous, taking away from the fun. )

Last edited by Jay-Em; 10-27-2016 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 10-28-2016, 02:01 PM   #85
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Re: Your brown-outs.

Do You use 3s? Because the available BEC amps always drop on almost all esc's when the voltage rises. It's an oddity due to pure electonics and physics, so 2amps quickly become just 1.5, or even less. A separate BEC is, imho, always a good thing, and I use that whenever I can, especially on heavier vehicles with powerful servo's.

With the stock servo, I didn't experience any brown-outs on 2s yet, but I have an 5 amp UBEC on the ready.

By the by. I tried the 4-pole 3520kv motor that came with the current waterproof Turnigy 80 amp on my GD. I could juuust squeeze a 17t pinion in the gearbox. The effect was a bit less top speed, but whhhooooboy. That thing pùlls! I hope Axial will release smaller spurs, because the current one is just too much geared towards crawling. I wouldn't be surprised if that Turnigy 3520 4-pole could run an 18t with a smaller spur, and give all Bombers the bye, bye on the straights, but I kind of balk at having to modify the motor adjustment slots to get that 18t in.
I didn't seem to have any brown out issues today. I did update the firmware on the ESC so maybe that helped. As I suspected, the RC Gear Shop products are HobbyWing and they accepted the firmware without any issues.

The 3900kV motor is fun on 2S. To me it seems like a true scale speed. It will sometimes wheelie from a dead stop, if traction is good enough, and it will jump a good distance without being insane. 3S is crazy fun. It's a lot faster and that's when you can really air it out. Fun, but 3S will definitely lead to crashes and broken parts.

Quote:
Re: Vanquish.

I cannot help it, but feel it is over-priced and over-hyped. Let alone the simple fact that overhere, in Europe, we pay a premium for American made parts. 21% VAT to start, and big shipping-costs for even the tiniest stuff.

It's absolutely not bad parsé, and looks pretty fancy, machine marks et all, but I have used many maligned other manufacturers' aluminium, and steel parts (GPM, Integy, HB etc), and never felt the need to go Vanquish. 'Worse' even, I never felt the need to go all aluminium apart from a few, chosen parts with weaknesses, say, swingarms and uprights (Traxxas Slash f.i.that constantly broke the front&rear uprights). Plastics have always served me well.

But, having said that, I am not a hard-core basher and/or crawler, and do not standard believe in the mantra that everything should be solved with more Cubic Inches, or in our case, more volts. A small, 50cm long car that goes 60km/h is fast enough for me.. Above that, its no longer fun for me, and becomes expensive pretty fast :p
(Yes, I have an EXO that ticks 90km/h, but that broke parts almost every run, and is now languishing in the attic in a box. I also have an HPI c1 Apache that gets 80+km/h in the rough, and can stand that, but it makes me mighty nervous, taking away from the fun. )
I agree. And I know a lot of others agree.

I beat on all my trucks. I use both top shelf and bottom shelf components on my RCs. Like you, I use aluminum sparingly. Plastic is so much more forgiving. I've never had a 3Racing, Boom Racing, or HobbyKing part fail me that wasn't my fault or subjected to massive abuse. They all make good stuff. I've had bad luck with fitment issues with GPM stuff so I stopped buying that. I don't think I've ever had an Integy part. I'm definitely not a brand label snob. I buy what works for me.
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Old 10-29-2016, 04:40 AM   #86
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I have to say You're on the mark with GPM parts. I had to re-thread new parts every now&then, and grind small sections to make stuff fit, but never any major failings during bashing or anything.

And, indeed "brand-snobism" is not something I suffer from. If it works, it works. And 30+ years of RC has taught me that èverything can break, when enough speed, power and solid objects are involved. Hence my reluctance to fix everything with 'more volts'

To me, the SMT10 has its tiny flaws, the failure-prone idler-gear being one of those (are You listening, Axial?), but all in all they are easy and relatively cheap fixes. A $25.- steel gear set from HotRacing was all I needed to get the GD up to snuff for the way I use it. Added to that, for me the fun is in bashing, but àlso in taking a car and work on the flaws in the cheapest and most innovative ways. Plopping-down $200.- on a pair of axles is fine if you like that, but finding-out that just sticking a 20-cents costing bit of aluminium tube in the ar-60's, an 10cents of shims was enough to make them almost bomb-proof? Yeah. That was was quite satisfying. Stuff like that, You know?

Then again, I am an IT 'professional' (pffft..) database and Dell Compellent storage, but my game pc made my other "professional" collegues almost burst into tears. Not enough slots in the casing for more SSD's ? Stick'em to the sides with strong velcro.... They almost got a stroke..

By the by: What pinion do You use with the 3900kv?

Last edited by Jay-Em; 10-29-2016 at 04:55 AM.
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Old 10-29-2016, 08:28 AM   #87
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I have to say You're on the mark with GPM parts. I had to re-thread new parts every now&then, and grind small sections to make stuff fit, but never any major failings during bashing or anything.

And, indeed "brand-snobism" is not something I suffer from. If it works, it works. And 30+ years of RC has taught me that èverything can break, when enough speed, power and solid objects are involved. Hence my reluctance to fix everything with 'more volts'

To me, the SMT10 has its tiny flaws, the failure-prone idler-gear being one of those (are You listening, Axial?), but all in all they are easy and relatively cheap fixes. A $25.- steel gear set from HotRacing was all I needed to get the GD up to snuff for the way I use it. Added to that, for me the fun is in bashing, but àlso in taking a car and work on the flaws in the cheapest and most innovative ways. Plopping-down $200.- on a pair of axles is fine if you like that, but finding-out that just sticking a 20-cents costing bit of aluminium tube in the ar-60's, an 10cents of shims was enough to make them almost bomb-proof? Yeah. That was was quite satisfying. Stuff like that, You know?

Then again, I am an IT 'professional' (pffft..) database and Dell Compellent storage, but my game pc made my other "professional" collegues almost burst into tears. Not enough slots in the casing for more SSD's ? Stick'em to the sides with strong velcro.... They almost got a stroke..

By the by: What pinion do You use with the 3900kv?
I've been in RC for about the same amount of time as you. I've had some hiatuses in between though. I used to be all about speed on everything RC and full scale, but the older I get the more I realize you don't need to go 100MPH to have fun.

I agree. The SMT10 is a great platform and it seems durable except for the known Axial flaws that have existed since the dawn of their existence (idler gear). This, alone, is why the SMT10 should have come brushless ready with steel transmission gears.

I personally have not had any issues with AR60 axles, but I haven't put any big power into them except my Bomber. But if you've read that thread you know my Bomber is really not running yet. I'm looking at you Castle . What is the aluminum tube mod for the AR60 axles that you speak of?

That's funny. PC nerds can be a brutal, elitist bunch!
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Old 10-29-2016, 12:52 PM   #88
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You just stick 2long pieces of aluminium tubes in the axles between the bearings. It prevents an eventual knock from breaking the plastic tubes, or worse, bending the shafts inside.

I believe I used an 11cm piece for the long tube, and a 5cm for the short piece. I forgot what size, I remember that I got a size that fit snug, and stil left room to fill the tubes with thick grease between tube and drive-shaft. I didn't do it for the SMT10 yet, but my Wraiths have had that mod for years. I never, ever broke or bent an AR60 or a drive shaft since that mod, not even when it was cold (when plastics get very brittle) And both Wraiths use somewhat mad power and are aimed towards good speed, not crawling, due to the utter lack of rocks overhere. Some clay and sandy hills is about as best as it gets in my bashing spots. The Netherlands are, ehrrmm.. "Kinda flat"


And, a question (in jest) can I go to a bigger pinion if a motor has enough power to let the GD make a full 360 flip on the spot???

I was kinda shocked, to say the least. When I first tried the 4-pole, it was wet outside. Now the road is dry, and the GD's tires have plenty grip, with this unexpected result.

I only had seen that trick done by guys with an over-powered Jato. Never expected an Axial to perform that little trick.

Suffice to say, I loosened the slipper a bit. Still wheelies' (to the utter enjoyment of the kids in my neighbourhood) but not so that it will break stuff.

Funny to see that kids stìll love monstertrucks as much as I did when I was younger. They especially are fond of the ruckus it makes with the ESS1+ I loaded it with the motor sound from a big block V8 Shortcourse truck. It shares the starter sound with that of a tuned '68 Dodge Dart. A lovely 'Sweesweesweeswee, swieswieswie.. Ka-tschouffshouffschouff.. Kpucklekapucklekapucle.. BRAAAAAPT!, (dang, is that little box loud)

I always thought it a bit 'toyish, but after hearing some YT vids with góod sound, warmed to it. HobbyKing sells them for €45.- overhere. $60.- I believe. Not the $99.- / €86.- that it was at first. Thàt, I thought a bit too much for just sound, but €45.- ? That's fine by me. I own several tanks who's sound controllers (IBU2) are quite a bit more expensive, and came without a speaker.

But. I'm rambling. 1 question remains unanswered :p : what pinion do You use?

Last edited by Jay-Em; 10-29-2016 at 01:54 PM.
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Old 10-29-2016, 03:58 PM   #89
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You just stick 2long pieces of aluminium tubes in the axles between the bearings. It prevents an eventual knock from breaking the plastic tubes, or worse, bending the shafts inside.

I believe I used an 11cm piece for the long tube, and a 5cm for the short piece. I forgot what size, I remember that I got a size that fit snug, and stil left room to fill the tubes with thick grease between tube and drive-shaft. I didn't do it for the SMT10 yet, but my Wraiths have had that mod for years. I never, ever broke or bent an AR60 or a drive shaft since that mod, not even when it was cold (when plastics get very brittle) And both Wraiths use somewhat mad power and are aimed towards good speed, not crawling, due to the utter lack of rocks overhere. Some clay and sandy hills is about as best as it gets in my bashing spots. The Netherlands are, ehrrmm.. "Kinda flat"


And, a question (in jest) can I go to a bigger pinion if a motor has enough power to let the GD make a full 360 flip on the spot???

I was kinda shocked, to say the least. When I first tried the 4-pole, it was wet outside. Now the road is dry, and the GD's tires have plenty grip, with this unexpected result.

I only had seen that trick done by guys with an over-powered Jato. Never expected an Axial to perform that little trick.

Suffice to say, I loosened the slipper a bit. Still wheelies' (to the utter enjoyment of the kids in my neighbourhood) but not so that it will break stuff.

Funny to see that kids stìll love monstertrucks as much as I did when I was younger. They especially are fond of the ruckus it makes with the ESS1+ I loaded it with the motor sound from a big block V8 Shortcourse truck. It shares the starter sound with that of a tuned '68 Dodge Dart. A lovely 'Sweesweesweeswee, swieswieswie.. Ka-tschouffshouffschouff.. Kpucklekapucklekapucle.. BRAAAAAPT!, (dang, is that little box loud)

I always thought it a bit 'toyish, but after hearing some YT vids with góod sound, warmed to it. HobbyKing sells them for €45.- overhere. $60.- I believe. Not the $99.- / €86.- that it was at first. Thàt, I thought a bit too much for just sound, but €45.- ? That's fine by me. I own several tanks who's sound controllers (IBU2) are quite a bit more expensive, and came without a speaker.

But. I'm rambling. 1 question remains unanswered :p : what pinion do You use?
Oh so you mean sort of like Beef Tubes except just for structural support and not addition weight. Thanks for the info.

My truck, on 3S will now do standing backflips or at least get extremely close if I tried. But I don't wanna try.

I have the ESS-One+ in mine as well. I even am using what seems like the same sound file as you. Although I added the Dixie horn because I'm a huge Dukes of Hazzard fan.

Sorry, I forgot to answer that. I'm running stock gearing - 11T pinion / 56T spur.
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Old 10-30-2016, 11:10 AM   #90
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11t?

Whhoh boy. On 3s that's gonna tear the stones out of the pavement.

Where did You put the ESS1? I probably overlooked it in Your early pics. I stuck it to the rear cage, facing up, the body now acts sorta like a separate box, amplifying the sound backwards.

It is a great toy, and the ónly gripe I have with it, is that the volume stays the same all along the range, while a real engine becomes progressively louder. Maybe they can fix that with an update, or something.

(Hah! Wo'd have thought that our toy-cars would evolve so far that they need software-updates for ESC, and assorted electronic toys. Certainly not me, when I bought my first real RC "kit" a Marui Big Bear in the 80's. Yep. MT's always were my first love.)
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Old 10-30-2016, 01:03 PM   #91
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11t?

Whhoh boy. On 3s that's gonna tear the stones out of the pavement.

Where did You put the ESS1? I probably overlooked it in Your early pics. I stuck it to the rear cage, facing up, the body now acts sorta like a separate box, amplifying the sound backwards.

It is a great toy, and the ónly gripe I have with it, is that the volume stays the same all along the range, while a real engine becomes progressively louder. Maybe they can fix that with an update, or something.

(Hah! Wo'd have thought that our toy-cars would evolve so far that they need software-updates for ESC, and assorted electronic toys. Certainly not me, when I bought my first real RC "kit" a Marui Big Bear in the 80's. Yep. MT's always were my first love.)
Well the 11T pinion on 3S tears parts that's for sure. Today's carnage is a rear driveshaft twist, front driveshaft cracked and a rear wheel hex stripped.

Time to upgrade driveshafts. ROWDY said T-Maxx shafts work so I'm going to check those out.

My ESS-One+ is under the driver where the ESC was. The ESC is now behind the driver's head above the battery. I do have pictures of this earlier in this thread. I like it this way for weight distribution and center of gravity purposes, but yours is probably amplified more. Do you have a photo of your ESS installed?

I love technology so I think it's awesome what we can do with ESCs and connecting them to computers, but it blows my mind how far RCs have come.

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Old 10-30-2016, 04:38 PM   #92
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At least the RPP already carries the wheels. Seems to be an issue on all the brushless smt10


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Old 10-30-2016, 04:48 PM   #93
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Do you guys have any luck getting the tires off of the wheels with baking or another method? I want to get a replacement wheels, but not tires.

And did you guys see this? It looks like they're going to offer the stock tires in R35 compound which will be great for those of us that like the stock tire size.
TowerHobbies.com | Axial 2.2 BKT Monster Jam Tires R-35 Compound (2)
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Old 10-30-2016, 10:46 PM   #94
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@Jato

Ah, nòw I see. Somehow my brain didn't parse what I was seeing. I am going to try that. At the moment the little noise-box is sitting unelegantly fixed to the rear of the cage with tie-wraps. Though, being able to adjust volume or sound from the back is rather handy. I'll see If I can get a picture up later this day.

Afa the damage goes. Well, that is exactly why I won't even try 3s. Already the driveshafts are showing a bit of a twist, though, not as bad as my Wraiths.

The wheels can be fixed with 2-component "kneading steel" (don't know the english word for it) a kind of greyish/silvery-looking epoxy used in pipe-fitting and fixing central heating radiators, I believe. I succesfully fixed my TXT wheels that way. Spray hex with silicone or other grease, press in the epoxy in the wheel, scrape off the excess, take hex out again, Let harden for 24hrs. I never broke a hex-hub again. The normal, clear epoxy won't work. That's not strong enough. Same goes for hot-glue.

"Avox Fixit Paste" works too. Although the hex will be permanently fixed to the wheel with it. Fixit is more like a thin sludge, than clay, unlike the kneading steel type.

Added to that: seeing that You split a drive-shaft, I am going to try and find a bit of tubing to make a 1cm collar to fit around it. That should keep it together, me thinks.

Last edited by Jay-Em; 10-30-2016 at 11:06 PM.
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Old 10-31-2016, 08:13 AM   #95
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@Jato

Ah, nòw I see. Somehow my brain didn't parse what I was seeing. I am going to try that. At the moment the little noise-box is sitting unelegantly fixed to the rear of the cage with tie-wraps. Though, being able to adjust volume or sound from the back is rather handy. I'll see If I can get a picture up later this day.

Afa the damage goes. Well, that is exactly why I won't even try 3s. Already the driveshafts are showing a bit of a twist, though, not as bad as my Wraiths.

The wheels can be fixed with 2-component "kneading steel" (don't know the english word for it) a kind of greyish/silvery-looking epoxy used in pipe-fitting and fixing central heating radiators, I believe. I succesfully fixed my TXT wheels that way. Spray hex with silicone or other grease, press in the epoxy in the wheel, scrape off the excess, take hex out again, Let harden for 24hrs. I never broke a hex-hub again. The normal, clear epoxy won't work. That's not strong enough. Same goes for hot-glue.

"Avox Fixit Paste" works too. Although the hex will be permanently fixed to the wheel with it. Fixit is more like a thin sludge, than clay, unlike the kneading steel type.

Added to that: seeing that You split a drive-shaft, I am going to try and find a bit of tubing to make a 1cm collar to fit around it. That should keep it together, me thinks.
It is difficult to change the sound and volume on my ESS-One+ because of where I have it. But it can be done with a stick or something like that. Just set it and forget it. I did get a 3" servo extension to run from the receiver to just outside of the receiver box. I then plugged the ESS-One+ into this servo extension. This way I can connect the sound module to my computer and change sounds without having to open up the receiver box and disturb my wiring. Sometimes it's difficult to get everything into a receiver box and once you have it closed you don't want to have to open it up again.

But 3S is so fun!!!

It sounds like you're talking about two-part epoxy or JB-Weld.


I think the female end of the driveshaft cracked like that because I got some big air on 3S and it landed nose down on the front axle. I think this forced the axle back enough to compress the driveshaft halves together hard enough to crack the one. I heard a loud "snap" upon landing and I didn't find anything else wrong. Putting a metal band or something around it is a good idea.
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Old 11-01-2016, 06:02 AM   #96
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With Axials water-proof receiver boxes I've always used extension-leads. Because trying to get that little gasket back in has made me use a lot of rather colourful expletives... Once, to get the extension-leads in, and never again!

The stuff I mean sounds, indeed, like J-B Weld. Though overhere its Pattex and Bison. I haven't found JB Weld in any of our hardware stores. Same goes for f.i. 'Shoe-Goo' Not available anywhere, unless straight-import from the US, which means : Price-Gauging.
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Old 11-01-2016, 07:55 AM   #97
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With Axials water-proof receiver boxes I've always used extension-leads. Because trying to get that little gasket back in has made me use a lot of rather colourful expletives... Once, to get the extension-leads in, and never again!

The stuff I mean sounds, indeed, like J-B Weld. Though overhere its Pattex and Bison. I haven't found JB Weld in any of our hardware stores. Same goes for f.i. 'Shoe-Goo' Not available anywhere, unless straight-import from the US, which means : Price-Gauging.
I never thought of using servo extensions to avoid opening the receiver box. A friend gave me that tip recently. I was being dumb all along.
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Old 11-01-2016, 11:58 AM   #98
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Default Re: Jato's SMT10

( I think the female end of the driveshaft cracked like that because I got some big air on 3S and it landed nose down on the front axle. I think this forced the axle back enough to compress the driveshaft halves together hard enough to crack the one. I heard a loud "snap" upon landing and I didn't find anything else wrong. Putting a metal band or something around it is a good idea )

From what I see, The driveshaft's are a little weak. On day of perches or latter on, one can use and old t-shirt or fiber glass, with super glue, glue a band at the end of shaft to cheaply keep it from splitting.


Last edited by Tim3; 11-01-2016 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 11-02-2016, 08:38 AM   #99
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Default Re: Jato's SMT10

Does anybody have a weight comparison between the stock wheel/BKT tire setup and the JConcepts or ProLine wheels and tires combos?
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Old 11-02-2016, 11:59 AM   #100
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Default Re: Jato's SMT10

I posted something about that a while back. If I recall correctly, there was a 4 oz difference per wheel/tire between stock and prolines and B&H MT tires by RC4WD.

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