Meeting Minutes from 5-4-08

[xzk7nr]

Here’s what we covered at the meeting:
We talked in length about things to improve on from the first comp.

First is No FREE RUNNING UNTILL ALL CLASSES ARE DONE WITH THEIR RUNS. It’s hectic enough with the limited area to stand and running 2 classes at the same time. We have to be courteous to everyone who is still waiting for there turn in their class.

Next is the only people aloud on the course are the driver and judges. NO ONE ELSE! Last comp we had many complaints about the all the walking thru the courses when people were driving, especially from the kids. Now Mejers was an extreme case because of the actual size of the free area. And I know as it gets later in the day the tougher it gets to sit still but we need to give the first driver the same amount of courtesy as the last driver

Last but not least here are the rules for the scaler class for the MiRCa. These are not written in stone but this is what we are going to use at the next comp.

1.9” Class – Modeled after typical street legal off-road vehicles
• Chassis must be OEM stock or custom ladder style that must extend over the axles. OEM suspension may be modified in any way. Construction material is not restricted.
• Tires are restricted to an overall outside diameter no greater than 4” and a width no greater than 1.75”. The tires must fit onto a standard 1.9” rim. Flywheels brand wheels and tires and 1/18 scale Nylint brand wheels and tires will be allowed.
• Must run a complete body, bumpers, fenders, doors & tailgates must be intact. Some fender trimming is allowed but the basic shape must be retained. A shortened or lengthened body is allowable. A tubed bed must have a functional bed area capable of carrying a full-size spare laid flat (rear fender and tailgate rules to not apply to tubed beds).
• No 4 wheel steer.
• No axle “dig”
• Wheelbase and width is limited only by your body, but it must fit within the
body’s fender wells.
• Vehicles must be “run what ya brung.”
• Battery must be placed on or within the chassis.
• No wheels weights are aloud

2.2” Class – Modeled after modified but street legal off-road vehicles
• Chassis must be a ladder style chassis. Construction material is not restricted
• Tires are restricted to any commercially available 2.2” tire or any tire cut down to fit a 2.2” wheel.
• Must run a complete body, bumpers, fenders, doors & tailgates must be intact. Some fender trimming is allowed but the basic shape must be retained. A shortened or lengthened body is allowable. A tubed bed must have a functional bed area capable of carrying a full-size spare stored in the vertical position (rear fender and tailgate rules to not apply to tubed beds).
• No 4 wheel steer
• No axle “dig”
• Wheelbase and width is limited only by your body, but it must fit within the body’s fender wells.
• Vehicles must be “run what ya brung.”
• Battery must be placed on or within the chassis.
• No wheels weights are aloud
• “Tuber” vehicles will be addressed on site and maybe allowed to run in this class but no guarantee is given. All vehicles and drivers should adhere to the “spirit” of a street legal off-road vehicle.

Points:
Reverse: 1 point
Gate Marker: 10 points
Rollover: 5 points
Boundary Marker: 10 points
Vehicle Touch: 10 points
DNF: 40 points
DNS: 50 points
Back Up/ Reverse: (1 pt) point is given when a vehicle reverses course after making forward progress. Reversing is defined as at any time if the tires move the vehicle backward or spin in the reverse direction, whether intentional or not. Once a reverse penalty is given, no further reverse penalty can be given until the vehicle makes forward progress. No penalty is given if the backward movement is part of a penalized rollover. (See Reverse examples and explanations, sec. 7.1 in the USRRCA rules.)

Rollover: (5 pts) points are given when vehicles rollover, and cannot be corrected without touching. Vehicles that land back on their wheels are not penalized. No reverse penalties are given until vehicle is back on 4 wheels. A vehicle can only be pushed back on to its wheels from the side. Anything else is a Vehicle Touch.

Vehicle Touch: (10 pts) All vehicle touches excluding “Rollovers” (See Rollover rule), intentional or unintentional, are given an automatic 10 points. The judge then will stop time when either the driver calls for a vehicle touch or the judge calls a driver touch. The vehicle is then moved back by the driver to the previously cleared gate with the rear axle aligned to that gate. If the vehicle cannot be aligned to the gate due to course design, the judge will reposition the vehicle to the next stable location after the cleared gate. This location will be used for all drivers. Note: All gates are still “live” unless a gate has already been deemed “dead”.
- Vehicle Touches include but are not limited to: repairs, repositions, vehicle driving/falling into the driver.
- Time is stopped by the judge to allow for safe reposition of the vehicle only, but is not allowed to be used for driver review of the course or other advantages.

Repairs: Repairs taking less than 1 minute may be completed on course. Repairs taking longer than 1 minute must be completed off course in the pit area. If repairs cannot be made within 30 minutes the driver is given a DNF minus progress points. If the repair is made in the allotted time the driver may return to the course. 1 minute will be subtracted from the time that is left on the course and the timer will continue once the vehicle makes forward progress.

Gate Marker: (10 pts each) each gate will be comprised of 2 gate markers. Points are given when 4 wheels do not travel between gate markers or any part of the vehicle or driver touches a gate marker. A gate marker will remain "live" for the entire duration of the attempt on the course. Once any gate marker has been touched or straddled, no more penalties will be given for that gate marker. Only when a gate penalty is assessed will that gate marker be deemed "dead". No further penalties will be assessed at this point forthat gate marker. (See Gate Marker and Gate Clearing explanations, sec. 7.2 & sec. 7.3 in the USRRCA rules.)

Boundary Marker: (10 pts each) Points are given when any part of the vehicle touches a boundary marker. Once any boundary marker has been touched or traversed the vehicle must then return to the course with
out making forward progress. During this time no additional boundary marker penalties will be assigned until the vehicle is completely back on the course. While attempting to return onto the course all other penalties apply. A boundary marker will remain "live" for the entire duration of the attempt on the course. Course designer may modify the boundary marker rules as needed to reflect the intentions of the course design. Boundary markers are not required in the design of a course.
Maximum Penalty Points:
- The maximum points per gate is 20. Once a driver has reached the maximum of 20-penalty
points, they will be placed past that gate. No progress points are given for the gates not cleared. (20 pt maximum per gate is optional)
- The maximum points per course are 40. At that time the driver is given a DNF and the run is complete and the vehicle should be removed from the course.

DNF (Did Not Finish): (40pts) are given anytime a driver cannot complete a course for any reason. (Timed-Out, Point-Out, Vehicle not Repairable, Went Home …etc) Progress points are awarded for each gate completed.

DNS (Did Not Start): (50pts) are given anytime a driver cannot start a course for any reason. To start a course the vehicle must break the plane of the start gate.

Progress bonus: (-1 progress point) will be awarded to drivers for each gate that is cleared by the vehicle during the attempt of a course. The entire vehicle must clear a gate, and not just break the plane of the gate, before progress bonus is awarded. These points are deducted from the total course score. Once a driver has pointed out, no further Progress Points will be awarded. A progress bonus will not be awarded for the start gate or the finish gate.

Appearance points are listed below. -25 points is the max per rig.
-5 Points
- Hard body (rigid construction, usually abs or polystyrene: essentially any body that is not lexan)
- Custom pick up truck bed (i.e. building a full bed from styrene on your lexan or hard body.)
- Interior detail (must have at least driver & passenger seat, dashboard, & steering wheel)

-3 Points
- Large scale item (canoe or similar, item must be secured to rack with tie downs; no
Velcro will be permitted.)
- True form bumpers installed front and reaton any rig.
- Leaf sprung suspension front and rear.
- Scale engine (i.e. Parma hemi)
- Tube style bed.
- Funtional winch
- Lights

-1 Point (5 items total)
- True form bumper instaled front or rear
- Lights
- Driver figure (should be scale in size, in other words a 4 inch G.I. Joe figure in a 1/6 scale truck
wouldn’t work)
- Leaf springs on only front or rear.
- Spare tire (must be functional)
- Non functional Winch
- Scale accessories (jerry cans, cooler, snatch straps, etc {multiples of a particular item will only
score once: for example if you have 2 jerry cans you will only score for 1 jerry can}

[binaryterror]

Originally Posted by xzk7nr

First is No FREE RUNNING UNTILL ALL CLASSES ARE DONE WITH THEIR RUNS.

Next is the only people aloud on the course are the driver and judges. NO ONE ELSE! Last comp we had many complaints about the all the walking thru the courses when people were driving

I know I wasnt there but I'd still like to voice some ideas if possible. If they fall on deaf ears that would be fine I suppose too.

I was guilty of both of these, I know it and will admit it. I was BORED. We ran both the 2.2 courses right after each other, so Driver A was on course 1 then 2, essentially 10 minutes per driver of waiting. I don't think my attention span is that limited however waiting was killing my ability to remain focused and "courteous".

I believe the answer is simple. Run 2.2 course 1 for every driver, then run course 2. This is how we ran last year at Davisburg and it worked smoothly. This is also how many of the other clubs are doing.

Wait-Run-Wait-Run-Wait
is easier than
Wait-Wait-Run-Run-Wait-Wait

Just my thoughts.

[rcracer]

Originally Posted by binaryterror

I know I wasnt there but I'd still like to voice some ideas if possible. If they fall on deaf ears that would be fine I suppose too.

I was guilty of both of these, I know it and will admit it. I was BORED. We ran both the 2.2 courses right after each other, so Driver A was on course 1 then 2, essentially 10 minutes per driver of waiting. I don't think my attention span is that limited however waiting was killing my ability to remain focused and "courteous".

I believe the answer is simple. Run 2.2 course 1 for every driver, then run course 2. This is how we ran last year at Davisburg and it worked smoothly. This is also how many of the other clubs are doing.

Wait-Run-Wait-Run-Wait
is easier than
Wait-Wait-Run-Run-Wait-Wait

Just my thoughts.

OR we could have 2 judges since standing bodies are available and run them both at the same time. the first guy runs course 1 then jumps to course 2 which gives the #2 guy a chance to start on course 1...and so on and so on. just an idea to eliminate standing time and focus on the reason, the comp.

[JUSTGOINGSLOW]

The one thing that Super Bob forgot to mention is! We will be using two judges/scorer's per course. In a rotation manner, that way it's not one person doing all the work. Everybody will have there turn either scoring or jugding, which should make things go even smoother.

[binaryterror]

Good news, helping score/judge will conquer my lack of attention span.

[saul]

and on that note of 2 judges....i would like to do a practice judging sometime befor next comp even if its just an impromtu gtg with someone that was a judge at last run...just so i know im getting it right

[twistedone]

think 2 judges will help alot

[binaryterror]

Originally Posted by saul

and on that note of 2 judges....i would like to do a practice judging sometime befor next comp even if its just an impromtu gtg with someone that was a judge at last run...just so i know im getting it right

X2 I'd be game...how about this Saturday at DB's?

[jeepfreek]

Originally Posted by saul

and on that note of 2 judges....i would like to do a practice judging sometime befor next comp even if its just an impromtu gtg with someone that was a judge at last run...just so i know im getting it right

I second that! Nobody can be a good judge first time out and there should be a "training" or "learning" curve to be met.

If we use 2 judges thats not per course right? I could see a check and balance advantage if we did. Judge 1 counts a single reverse and judge 2 counts 2 but after the run they tally both scores and average them together to get the final score for that course. Just as an exsample.

[JUSTGOINGSLOW]

All you guy's want to have a GTG this Saturday ay DB's I'm in, I think a little scoring 101 really isn't a bad idea.

[twistedone]

what time?

[JUSTGOINGSLOW]

High noon, in the street buddy. Gun's a blaze'in

[saul]

yeh...saturday sounds good....get some judging in for practice

[jeepfreek]

I'll pencil you guys in. Things are getting real hectic around here on the weekends.

[xzk7nr]

I wish i could but the inlaw are coming with our granite countertops (family biz) so I will be instaling those this weekend. And i dont know how long thats gonna take.

[jeepfreek]

Originally Posted by xzk7nr

I wish i could but the inlaw are coming with our granite countertops (family biz) so I will be instaling those this weekend. And i dont know how long thats gonna take.

You know if you were to "accidently" break that counter top you could use it to build an indoor course!

[JUSTGOINGSLOW]

Pretty expensive course, would'nt you say.

[twistedone]

1.3 - Rollover: (5 pts) points are given when vehicles rollover, and cannot be corrected without touching.
Vehicles that land back on their wheels are not penalized. No reverse penalties are given until vehicle is
back on 4 wheels. A vehicle can only be pushed back on to its wheels from the side. Anything else is a
Vehicle Touch

are we following this rule in the MiRCa comps?

when we were scoring sat was told it was 10pts and just to reposition it? lets clear this up

[shrek]

bob we are doing 10 pts on everything. this is a rule change for 2008. rollovers touch and repair are all now 10pts to make judging easier on everybody,

[xzk7nr]

Originally Posted by JUSTGOINGSLOW

Pretty expensive course, would'nt you say.

yes it would be.