Axial SCX10 Honcho, Wraith, or Vaterra Twin Hammers?

[theTman]

I have been toying with various ideas of what to get for my new rig once I can save some money I can spare. I'm mainly wanting a trail running rig, and will be doing some light rock crawling as well. I'm fine if the rig isn't comp legal. I mainly just want something to have fun with and take hiking with me various places, but mostly Taylor's Falls and down some trails near home along the Rum river which can be comparable to a minnehaha creek trail run.

If I get an SCX10 I would want to get the 60$ metal link upgrade right away and would also have to buy a new charger and a couple batteries as I don't have any stuff for Lipo.

If I got a Twin Hammers I would need to pack the front diff with 500K weight diff fluid and possibly replace a servo or two. I would also want to get a couple more of the little packs made for it. I wouldn't want the big 4000 mah pack due to the battery location placing it in the back and higher up.

I'm not sure what I would do if I got a wraith, and I am not sure if I would go for a kit or RTR as once again I would want metal links right away and also a higher turn motor. I would also need a new charger and a couple batteries.

I could ask elsewhere on this forum but I feel I can get the best advice from the people who drive the same areas as I plan to, and I've gotten good advice in the past.

Oh, and I have roughly a 500$ budget but might spend a little more if I go for a wraith kit.

[diesel kawboy]

Just remember, the only poll that matter's is your own.

[djjiz]

Scx-10 is the answer to all of your questions. Dollar for dollar there is nothing that compares to it.

[theTman]

The wraith seems really popular and many people suggested it when I was asking about a Twin Hammers in the designated forum. However, the same people like the wraith for it's great rock crawling ability when properly set up for it and also said things like "bigger is better". One of the reasons I want a scaler is that they are not full blown comp machines and that their limitations can make less extreme terrain more fun to drive on. Maybe I'll forget about the wraith.

I think there is a lot of bias for the SCX10 because it has been around so long. The Twin Hammers is newer and less well known. Also many reviews I read are complaining about it not crawling well, but they also are leaving the front diff stock. Also people complain about the shifting servo dying, but they also neglect to set endpoints. I think maybe I should start a new thread in the general scale section so I can get a broader audience.

[Orange58Crush]

I'm with Kawboy, there's no wrong answer, and the only person's opinion that matters, in the end, is yours.

That being said, a Honcho is a very capable with just a few mods, most of them cheap or free, it's a ton of fun, and tough as heck. 3s lipo and a good set of tires (with a little weight in the front ones), some creative repositioning of stock components, and you've got a great trail rig. I've had mine about 2 months, driven it at least an hour (sometimes 3 or 4) every day and rolled it many, many times and it just keeps going. Still haven't replaced the stock POS steering servo!! ( Just jinxed myself, I know.)

I have a friend that has had a couple Hammers, and I would stay with an Axial product. Just my $.02.

[djjiz]

If you're gonna ask questions be prepared for answers.

And be prepared to spend more money on whatever decision you make.

[theTman]

how does a honcho handle in snow? Has anyone here driven a honcho in snow with paddle tires? It would be nice to be able to drive during the winter to scratch the RC itch. I have a feeling the Twin Hammers might do well in snow with paddle tires due to it's lower weight and higher wheel speed. I would be willing to put a higher speed setup in the honcho for winter if needed, though I'm not sure how well it would handle in snow with higher wheel speed being a full solid axle rig rather than a hybrid.

I know I should plan to spend more money on the rig in the long term, but I just need to keep the initial up front cost down. This is partly due to the fact that I will be a bit limited in my cash and partly to keep my dad from getting all pissed off at me spending a several hundred dollars on this thing without having 2 grand in savings lol! I have to put up with him for a couple more years while I finish college.

[djjiz]

I can't say how anything will do with paddles but I can tell you for sure that 1.9's make the honcho an efficient and reliable rig.

You should drive all three to make sure though. All the opinions and specs in the world won't put a smile on your face like a good experience does.

[MCW24]

my honcho went everywhere in the snow, my chains might have helped. but i agree with the others honcho is the way to go.

[theTman]

I have a few videos showing the Twin Hammers crawling:

This is it stock except with 500K weight diff oil in the front: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijgnM7k4xZg

Rock Crawling in a red rock desertish area: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIVcKkgr5IQ this thing has play-dough packed in the front diff lol!

Trail running in the Canadian woods: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSgzOq2EhBs

Seaside rock crawling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnUQEkqz8aM

Somewhat upgraded Twin Hammers with a brushless system trail running/crawling and dropping off a 50 foot cliff on to solid rock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHOPmxGQIzQ (you can see footage from and on board camera while it falls and then tumbles). It only broke one rear rod end on a vanquish upper link on the end connecting to the axle, and the rear driveshaft. To be fair it did have vanquish rear links, a curry metal axle case, blue monkey metal front shock brace, and metal beadlocks. I'm still amazed the A-arms and roll cage survived. This video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXJ6UwlcKoM shows the aftermath and tells you what was upgraded.

[djjiz]

Buy a slash if you want paddles and cliff jumping.

Good luck with your decision. I'm out.

[theTman]

Originally Posted by djjiz

Buy a slash if you want paddles and cliff jumping.

Good luck with your decision. I'm out.

I don't want to go cliff jumping. That video was just showing how durable it is, and it went off the cliff by mistake.

I only want paddles as a means of driving in the winter without buying a second vehicle. I would get tired of a slash quickly.

Update: I looked up the Twin Hammers on their site and I think I might be leaning back toward a honcho. I was looking at the twin hammers specs and it is 3 inches narrower than the Honcho (6 inches versus 9), has a 0.7 inch shorter wheelbase (11.6 versus 12.3) and it also has much lower ground clearance (0.9 inches versus 2.7 inches).

With this information the Twin Hammers is starting to lose it's charm. I still really like the IFS/rear solid axle setup for some reason. Maybe once I am through college and making good money I'll make a Wrexo if both kits still exist in 2-3 years and there isn't a better factory built IFS/rear solid axle rig out there. I saw Axial's guys built a wrexo and covered it on their site. I would love it if they went ahead and started making them as kits and or RTR as they already make most of the parts needed so there isn't the extra cost of designing brand new stuff and the machinery to make it all.


Second Update: I had PM'd Big Baller about the Twin Hammers and he got back to me and talked me out of getting one. He made some good points and reinforced what people were already saying and I was starting to feel a bit myself. The Twin Hammers is neat, but it isn't the best for me. I'm going for a Honcho!!!

[theTman]

Found this video of an SCX10 FOFF build on a california beach. It has really fine sand and he is using paddles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG0UlZ9DJ-o

While that isn't the same as driving in snow, it did show me that when properly adjusted and equipped the SCX10 can zip around on paddles pretty well without being incredibly clumsy. My plan is to run it as a typical trail running scaler most of the year, and when the snow hits I'll change some stuff out to put it in snow mode for the duration of the winter. I wonder how it would handle with my old sensored brushless 4600 KV motor I got as a package deal with my Mamba Max (just Mamba Max, not the Pro). That motor didn't see very heavy use and is still sitting in my toolbox looking almost new. I used it in my Losi XXX-T stadium truck years ago. I have the Mamba Max in my old gopher tuber right now and recently updated it with the latest Firmware (they have crawler settings nowadays!).


Would that 4600KV brushless motor work well in a Honcho for trail running and crawling if I geared it properly, or would it be too fast? If it would then that means I already have a ESC/ motor combo for a scaler and I might want to get a kit instead. I have a Hitec 645MG servo I waterproofed that is currently in my old tuber. I could get a new radio and receiver and have a total price about the same as buying a Honcho with the 60$ metal links kit and I would have better electronics, my own custom paint job, metal shocks, and the experience of piecing the whole thing together myself. The only thing I would lack compared to the Honcho would be upper metal links. So, is this a good idea?

Edit: I made a thread about the motor in the SCX10 forum and found that it would be bad for general use in a scaler. Doing a search on here for references to 4600KV motors did reveal that people use them in FOFF SCX10 builds. Maybe this motor can be my winter motor when I'm running paddles and need wheel speed.

2nd Edit: I decided I should just stick with a Honcho instead of getting a kit and gutting my old tuber. I might want that old tuber around as a girlfriend rig later on. I might get a kit and some decent electronics if I get a job at Costco and start raking in the dough, but other than that a kit is out.

[djjiz]

I'm back.

Good call on the scx10 platform. Run it until something breaks and then worry about going brushless.

[theTman]

Originally Posted by djjiz

I'm back.

Good call on the scx10 platform. Run it until something breaks and then worry about going brushless.

yeah, besides the metal link upgrade from the start I plan to upgrade stuff as it breaks. Best way to know what needs reinforcing is to see what breaks first.

So, I'll buy a honcho, 60$ link kit, 16 tooth pinion, a ~5000 mah lipo, and a ~50$ charger. Might wait to buy a second Lipo or might get two right away depending on my situation financially.

This all might be a while unless I get a job at costco. I'm pinching every penny to survive at the moment as hours are tight at Gander Mountain as we wait for the lakes to de-ice and for people to start buying fishing stuff more. This fall we are being upgraded to a gun super store which should improve hours budgets. I also will be getting larger student loans since I don't need to include my parents on my Fafsa. I only take extra after tuition is payed so I can have a cushion should I need a car repair or hours get short. I won't take the max amount. I shouldn't end up with too big of a loan debt as I started in a community college and I am moving on to a tech school. I'm going for a CAD engineering technology (CAD drafting) 2 year degree at Hennipen Tech.

[djjiz]

One 5k will last you a long time. I dont think you'll need two right away. Scalers go for 2-3 hours if you're not wide open all the time.

[theTman]

I'm starting to think that I won't be able to afford a new rig for quite a while. I should probably waith until I can have 1-1.5k $ in savings after I buy this. I depleted my cash cushion during a 3 month period of almost no work hours whatsoever.

I think I might first buy a new 2.4 Ghz system for about 100$ for transmitter and reciever combo and put it in my current crawler. It am running a 27mhz AM radio that came RTR with my losi stadium truck 10 years ago. The crawler has jitter fits off and on so I figured it would be a good thing to replace. I might wait and get it for a birthday/christmas gift (my birthday is 4 days before christmas so instead of 2 smaller presents I can get one big one to cover both). I think after that I'll eventually find the money to buy a G6 wrangler kit and build it as a roller until I can afford the rest of the guts. I think buying this thing in several smaller transactions would be less demanding and make my dad tweak out less about me spending all that cash on RC "toy trucks".