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Old 01-03-2016, 10:00 PM   #1
Rock Crawler
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Minneapolis
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Default 2016 MNRCRC Vehicle Rules

Hey Guys,

Sorry for the delay in getting this posted. Life and the Holidays have kept me really busy. Thanks to everyone who made it to the meeting and helped hash this out.



THE RIGS



General Rules:


  • There was some leniency and misinterpretation of the rules this year that we want to clarify
  • You must finish the day with the rig you start a class with, if you break and can't finish, you may DNF/DNS a course (remember we have a throw out score...hopefully this works in your favor)
  • For season paid club members, you must run a different rig in each class (you can borrow a buddies rig if you don't have one). For first time or occasional attendees it will be case by case and depend on how many competitors there are.



1.9 Trail Class:




  • [*
  • No MOA - Must be shaft Driven - Only 1 Transmission
  • No Dig or Rear steer
  • Must have 1 Solid Axle
  • 1.9 Scale Tires only - No cut and shut tires - However shaving, siping, trimming allowed
  • 1.9 or smaller wheels only
  • Axle quantity not limited to 2
  • Must have FRONT bumper that is affixed to the frame and extends beyond the frame rails (L to R)(can't just be a lexan bumper in the body shell)
  • Body must be as long as the wheelbase or bigger
  • Must have a ladder frame chassis (No TVP)
    • Chassis must be 3" longer than the wheelbase (distance between center of axles)
    • Truggy frames (front rails with rear cage) allowed but must be the 3" longer than wheelbase


  • Non-Traditional Model Exceptions Allowed:
    • Tamiya CC01/CR01
    • Exceptions to be made for first time or occasional competitors on a truck by truck basis.

2.2 Trail Class:
  • No MOA - Must be shaft Driven - Only 1 Transmission
  • No Dig or Rear steer
  • Must have 1 Solid Axle
  • Knuckle weights allowed
  • Scale 2.2 Tires - Excluding (Any Pin tire, HB Sedona/Rover, any tire made from comp tires); Cut-n-shut tires are allowed as long as scale tires are used to create them.
  • Axle quantity not limited to 2
  • Tube frame and ladder frame chassis allowed, must be at least as long as the wheelbase
  • Model Exceptions Allowed (must have scale appearance, body or panels):
    • AX10 Deadbolt/Ridgcrest
    • Wheely/Crawler King
    • Yeti
    • Exceptions to be made for first time or occasional competitors on a truck by truck basis.

2.2 Pro:
  • No Changes to 2.2 Pro MOA Rigs
  • 2.2 Sportsman "Comp" rigs will run in 2.2 Pro with MOA (Dig is Allowed)

SCHEDULE

(General Details - Actual dates will be hashed out in an upcoming thread)







Consensus is to maintain similar schedule to 2015:
  • Annual Dues are $30 for all comps - per comp basis is $5 (kids and girls are free)
  • 8 Comp Dates - Taylors Falls and Duluth
  • 4 Scale Events (G6/U4)
    • Locations and Dates - TBD
    • Trying to make 1 really large 200+ gates
    • U4 racing events in Lake Elmo - 1.9 and 2.2 classes - TBD
    • "Border Battle" event will be held this late spring - details TBD

Don't forget the Snow Crawl Series at Phil's - Monthly through the winter - Very Informal but a lot of fun



Also - Adam will be posting on his indoor course events.







Open Items:


  • TTC - We need to determine when/where we could hold another TTC this year

ADVERTISING:
  • Dana to post on RCC /Facebook for events, comps, and Club information
  • Marketing materials - Flier (Dana/Mike)
  • Business Cards - TBD
  • "Try it for fun" Rig - Pimp has the deadbolt from last year
  • Sandwich boards for comps - Josh to keep these
  • Tshirts - Kevin to talk to Ryan about options
  • Stickers - Mike

RESPONSIBILITIES:
  • Advertising and information changes mentioned above
  • Comp course setup - TBD
  • Score entry and posting - Dana to enter scores
  • After comp cleanup - Chuck will assign cleanup duties at each comp
  • Score cards - Adam to print score cards

OTHER DISCUSSION:
  • Run Order -
    • There was a lot of discussion on this and we will be switching the 1.9 Trail and 2.2 Pro in the order to drive more engagement in the 1.9 class...Better show up early!!!
    • 1.9 Trail, 2.2 Trail, 2.2 Pro
    • 1st from previous week goes first on Course 1, 2nd goes first on Course 2
    • Remaining order is first come first serve - You Must set your rig down in line at the start to call your spot (hopefully this will reduce confusion)


  • Score sheets will be handed to you after your run to bring to the next course - Don't leave it on the clip board (unless it is your final run)
  • Finals Course after the last comp
    • Top 5 in regular season standings (including comp 8 - tie breaker is comp 8 (final comp) scores, then previous, etc
    • Non competitors setup courses and judge
    • Bonus land
    • Tie breaker for overall rankings (after finals course is run) is finals course score, then comp 8,7, etc.

Thank you to everyone who made it and provided feedback on the Idea thread. We have a great opportunity to have a killer 2016 season and really grow the hobby and the club.



Dana

Last edited by dna4engr; 02-03-2016 at 05:50 PM. Reason: Updated some of the details.
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Old 01-04-2016, 12:15 AM   #2
Quarry Creeper
 
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Default Re: 2016 MNRCRC Vehicle Rules

YAY!, both my comp trucks fit into the rules, and I just added a Poison Spyder front bumper to my 1.9 rig, needs a little trimming for tire and servo clearances though. And the rails on the 1.9 are 3.5" longer than the wheelbase.

Can't wait for the season to start!

Was planning on coming to the meeting, but got sick :(
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Old 01-04-2016, 10:13 AM   #3
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Default Re: 2016 MNRCRC Vehicle Rules

Looks good, once again thanks Dana for all the time you but into the MNRCRC you do a great job of keeping us organized.
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Old 01-04-2016, 01:17 PM   #4
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Default Re: 2016 MNRCRC Vehicle Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by dna4engr View Post
1.9 Trail Class:
  • Knuckle weights are not allowed (Dlux brass knuckles will be case by case basis)
Whoa, whoa, whoa... I thought we changed this back to allowing knuckle weights?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dna4engr View Post
2.2 Trail Class:
  • Scale 2.2 Tires - Excluding (Any Pin tire, HB Sedona/Rover, any cut-n-shut as long as scale tires are used to create)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we are allowing the cut-n-shuts in the 2.2 Trail as long as a scale tire/tread is used, right? The way you have it worded confused me.


Thanks again for all your help Dana!
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Old 01-04-2016, 01:26 PM   #5
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Default Re: 2016 MNRCRC Vehicle Rules

I thought we said no to knuckle weights but couldn't agree on dlux knuckles. that's why I said that dlux are an exception. Anyone else have $0.02 to share?

I'll fix the tire stuff, just disorganized that sentence.


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Old 01-05-2016, 09:08 PM   #6
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Default Re: 2016 MNRCRC Vehicle Rules

Kevin is corrrect on knucle weights in 1.9.

2.2 Trail, No comp tires in any form. Cut and shut are are allowed as long as the tread face is from a scale tire.
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Old 01-05-2016, 09:23 PM   #7
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Default Re: 2016 MNRCRC Vehicle Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicklepimp View Post
Whoa, whoa, whoa... I thought we changed this back to allowing knuckle weights?



Correct me if I'm wrong, but we are allowing the cut-n-shuts in the 2.2 Trail as long as a scale tire/tread is used, right? The way you have it worded confused me.


Thanks again for all your help Dana!
No we said no to knuckle weights that's why I changed all my setup stuff and went to my brass rotors for weight, we said ok to dlux, and ok to axle weights but no to knuckle weights.

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Old 01-06-2016, 08:57 AM   #8
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Default Re: 2016 MNRCRC Vehicle Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerby149 View Post
No we said no to knuckle weights that's why I changed all my setup stuff and went to my brass rotors for weight, we said ok to dlux, and ok to axle weights but no to knuckle weights.

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Its because of the brass rotors you said you had plenty of them, we said yes to all knuckle weights. You must remember the discussion we had regarding Chad, if I remember correctly it revolved around the fact he's was running Dlux knuckles on his 1.9? At the same time we also said yes to use of weight ballast bolted to the chassis.

Last edited by Stormin2u; 01-06-2016 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 01-06-2016, 09:03 AM   #9
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Default Re: 2016 MNRCRC Vehicle Rules

No we said no to knuckle weights because the weight I have bolt to the hub and look scale, I specifically switched my 1.9 for that reason and Josh and Nick did the same. At this point I don't care either way.

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Old 01-06-2016, 10:06 AM   #10
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Default Re: 2016 MNRCRC Vehicle Rules

Ok boys,
Lets settle this like real men...with a poll

MNRCRC 1.9 Knuckle Weight Poll
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Old 01-06-2016, 10:46 AM   #11
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Default Re: 2016 MNRCRC Vehicle Rules

I thought that we agreed to knuckle weights for 2.2 trail but not allowed on 1.9.
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Old 01-06-2016, 10:58 AM   #12
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Default Re: 2016 MNRCRC Vehicle Rules

I can't believe you guys don't remember the conversation going back to allowing them since like Storm said, you have Dlux knuckles, weighted rotors, and ballast weight that would all essentially do the same thing. Do you remember Dana calling for a vote of 'who doesn't care anymore and is ok with it?'
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Old 01-06-2016, 11:27 AM   #13
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Default Re: 2016 MNRCRC Vehicle Rules

We voted to allow them.
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Old 01-06-2016, 12:02 PM   #14
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Default Re: 2016 MNRCRC Vehicle Rules

I'll leave my 2 cents here as well..

It's not easy making a knuckle weight fit a 1.9. A lot of time, thought, and money went into this setup and it's not as easy as putting aluminum knuckles back on my rig. It involves steering, chassis clearance, tubes, as well as chubs and knucks.

I'll switch if i gotta but like i said.. It's not gonna be easy.
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Old 01-06-2016, 12:14 PM   #15
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Default Re: 2016 MNRCRC Vehicle Rules

Wait.. Bumper rules don't allow bouncer cages. Looks like I'm out.
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Old 01-06-2016, 08:25 PM   #16
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Default Re: 2016 MNRCRC Vehicle Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by dna4engr View Post

[LIST]
[*]Knuckle weights are not allowed (Dlux brass knuckles will be case by case basis) - Still some discussion on this.[*]Other axle or wheel weighting techniques are allowed (axle tubes, brass, lead, depleted uranium, etc)
[*]Must have FRONT bumper that bolts to frame and extends beyond the frame rails (L to R)
2 things,

So no knuckle weights but you can put lead on the axle? I don't understand why we wouldn't allow knuckle weights, more rules is why there was less people. Having less rules brought in all the people.

The front bumper thing, so if we have a welded bumper we are illegal, and anyone that has a axial bomber converted to 1.9 is also illegal, along with a lot of other 1.9 buggies that are scale.

So I guess what I'm saying is that there will probably be at least a few people that will have rigs that are now illegal. I know I have a few that are now illegal unless I change allot of stuff.
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Old 01-06-2016, 08:53 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by minnesotamudder View Post
2 things,

So no knuckle weights but you can put lead on the axle? I don't understand why we wouldn't allow knuckle weights, more rules is why there was less people. Having less rules brought in all the people.

The front bumper thing, so if we have a welded bumper we are illegal, and anyone that has a axial bomber converted to 1.9 is also illegal, along with a lot of other 1.9 buggies that are scale.

So I guess what I'm saying is that there will probably be at least a few people that will have rigs that are now illegal. I know I have a few that are now illegal unless I change allot of stuff.

Josh, the bumper rule just needs some clarity. A welded on bumper is just fine, I just didn't word the rule very well. The intent was to have bumpers on the front that are real and not just molded in the lexan body. I'll edit the OP. An rr10, wraith, r1, twin hammer, etc are out from season long points competition as they don't have frame rails. There are wraith frame rails available now and some people can make there own. The stock wraith bumper constitutes a legal bumper by our rules, just need some frame rails. The rr10 is too new and I haven't seen any 1.9 conversions (it's perfectly legal in 2.2 as it sits). We won't turn rigs away, just no points.

To be honest here guys, there are little to none of these rules that will exclude a new person in 1.9 as these are all part of any stock scx10 or tf2 or gmade truck or ascender.

The goal was to avoid experienced members from making rigs that were solely performance based (says the guy building a carbon fiber chassis). Knuckle weights, lead weights, and bodies were the most debated items in 1.9.

You guys really think a new person is going to come in with knuckle weights and a 1/16 body in 1.9, no, that's the experienced guys who are trying to work around the intent of the class. On the other hand it's reasonable to see a new person using lead weights on the axles or wheels.

Look back at 2015. We had a lot of new people come and run 1.9, and then be decimated by the purpose built rigs with no bumpers, knuckle weights, etc.
Norms jeep is a perfect example of what the class is. It has frame rails, a bumper, and no knuckle weights. The new folks would be scrambling to remove bumpers, side rails, cargo racks, etc.

Quite frankly, the rule set is pretty darn small and it's to keep guys like myself in check. If we have people come and we see a rule is really causing problems, we address it there.

Let's be honest here guys. How hard do we really enforce this. It's to give guidelines and let those who are honest sleep well at night. There won't be any tech tables. Well just call bull sh!t if your rig has pushed too far.

Ok I'm done soap boxing now...


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Old 01-06-2016, 09:18 PM   #18
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Old 01-06-2016, 09:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dna4engr View Post
Josh, the bumper rule just needs some clarity. A welded on bumper is just fine, I just didn't word the rule very well. The intent was to have bumpers on the front that are real and not just molded in the lexan body. I'll edit the OP. An rr10, wraith, r1, twin hammer, etc are out from season long points competition as they don't have frame rails. There are wraith frame rails available now and some people can make there own. The stock wraith bumper constitutes a legal bumper by our rules, just need some frame rails. The rr10 is too new and I haven't seen any 1.9 conversions (it's perfectly legal in 2.2 as it sits). We won't turn rigs away, just no points.

To be honest here guys, there are little to none of these rules that will exclude a new person in 1.9 as these are all part of any stock scx10 or tf2 or gmade truck or ascender.

The goal was to avoid experienced members from making rigs that were solely performance based (says the guy building a carbon fiber chassis). Knuckle weights, lead weights, and bodies were the most debated items in 1.9.

You guys really think a new person is going to come in with knuckle weights and a 1/16 body in 1.9, no, that's the experienced guys who are trying to work around the intent of the class. On the other hand it's reasonable to see a new person using lead weights on the axles or wheels.

Look back at 2015. We had a lot of new people come and run 1.9, and then be decimated by the purpose built rigs with no bumpers, knuckle weights, etc.
Norms jeep is a perfect example of what the class is. It has frame rails, a bumper, and no knuckle weights. The new folks would be scrambling to remove bumpers, side rails, cargo racks, etc.

Quite frankly, the rule set is pretty darn small and it's to keep guys like myself in check. If we have people come and we see a rule is really causing problems, we address it there.

Let's be honest here guys. How hard do we really enforce this. It's to give guidelines and let those who are honest sleep well at night. There won't be any tech tables. Well just call bull sh!t if your rig has pushed too far.

Ok I'm done soap boxing now...


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So because no one has done it, and the fact that it is now "illegal" (quotes because it can run but not "compete"). I for one wanted to make a 1.9 bomber for this year, but now wont because of the points. Also not really sure what advantage you get from not having frame rails is when people are using carbon fiber, it is mostly for looks.

I also know that there were a few people with twin hammers, and I think one with a r1 that was using axial axles and 1.9s, so all these people are out

Also there are a few bodies that come on rigs stock with just a bumper that is molded into the body, the newish axial power wagon is one of them.

I understand the rules are to limit the "cheater rigs" but new people are going to read the rules and see there truck doesn't fit and not show up.

Besides the fact that there may only be one or two people that are knowingly cheating, why cant we just say if we see something we will let you know and if it doesn't get fixed by the next comp we will deal with it.

I would rather get this figured out before the season then not be able to do anything and have lost members because of it.

So to the people that think this is being "butt hurt"
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Old 01-06-2016, 10:02 PM   #20
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The reality is that almost no new people read the rules.

At least 95% of the new people that came this summer just saw the schedule on rcc or saw it on Facebook.

All I can say about chassis rails is that it was a large majority of the vote at the meeting to require them in 1.9, but the 2.2 trail class gives all kinds of flexibility.


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