Which crawler to start with? My opinion on the question.

[EvilTwin v2]

I've seen alot of questions lately on this and other forums about which axle, crawler, etc. should a person purchase. This is usually followed by some heated discussions and/or bad information being passed along.

Therefore, I'm going to try to post my thoughts on each major player, in as unbiased a manner as possible.

Axial AX10 - I've had and have competed with an Axial-based rig for over a year now. Mine was the original Scorpion kit, and at this point, very little is left stock. About all I have left from the original kit is the transmission & axles, and I've upgraded the outputs and added a dig to the trans along with upgrading the axles with new lockers and aluminum caster & steering blocks and lockouts on the rear. One of the first upgrades that I made to the Axial was shocks and driveshafts. If I were to suggest a new Axial to anyone it would be the ARTR or to simply get axles and transmission & build the rest from scratch. Another option is to pick up a used comp rig from somebody who's made the switch to a LCC or MOA. This would probably get you the best bang for the buck in an Axial.

For the price of setting an Axial up for competition, you would probably be further ahead to look elsewhere. If you want a basher, though, they're a decent way to go and/or a great start into the hobby.

Berg - These are probably the most popular MOA axle on the market. The thing about the Berg is that the axles are the only part from the kit that are worth keeping, and they, too, will require some upgrades right out of the box, or soon after. Axial stub shafts on all 4 corners, along with rear lockouts, and axial front steering blocks and wheel hexes are all things that I would do almost immediately along with disassembly & lock-titing of everything. Once upgraded, these axles are really hard to beat. Thing is that you're already up to the cost of a LCC or AX10 and you don't have a chassis, links, shocks, or electronics. If you're willing to spend the money, though, they're one of the most popular upper level competition axles.

Losi LCC - In my opinion, the absolute most comp worthy out of the box crawler ever produced. However, they're probably also the biggest headach...at least for right now. They're so new, there are some bugs to be worked out, and due to the gearing & friction of the worm gears, people are currently scrambling to find "the best" motor / gearing setup. Many people are burning up their motors due to the high RPM requirements. Losi says to use their brushless, but many people don't care for the low rpm characteristics of brushless. Between that and people breaking CVD's (even the new upgraded shafts), I'd personally wait til the bugs are worked out before buying a Losi. However, if you're the type who likes to tinker and try different setups or you insist on competing with a shafty, this is a great way to go, and at under $300 for the kit, a real bargain. Just forget about this being a basher or maintenance free. It's not.

And this brings us to the...

RC4wd Bully - The early Bully axles had weak axle shafts, but that has been addressed, and the latest, Bully 2 axles are incredibly beefy. They come out of the box with a straight rear axle, XVD's (RC4wd's CVD shafts), and high steer steering knuckles. They also are probably the heaviest axle (weight) on the market. I still haven't decided if this is a pro or a con. While a heavier axle makes for a lower center of gravity, it also makes for a heavier rig, which may (in theory) make some of the very steepest climbs more difficult.

There are currently a few ARTR options for the Bully. You can either buy the axles and build from scratch or RC4wd and JPCustoms both have their own ARTR's. Both look like nice options for under $400. Add electronics, do some tuning and take it to the comps.

After alot of research along with personal experience and watching others at the comps, I went with the Bully2's for my latest comp rig. At least to me, it seemed like you get more for your money than the Berg axle, without the growing pains of the LCC.

Just my .02.

[meffie]

Nice writeup

[oldhippie]

kool

[Wicked_Jester]

a bully is a rig that will take a lot to get into and most newbies are looking for something with a smaller budget then an moa rig

artr bully $400
radio $75(modded tq3)-$300+
2 motors $40-$100
1 or 2 esc's $100-$270
servo and arm $45-$100
plus all the little stuff

for $600 you can have a nicely set-up losi rig with top of the line gear

[EvilTwin v2]

Originally Posted by Wicked_Jester

a bully is a rig that will take a lot to get into and most newbies are looking for something with a smaller budget then an moa rig

artr bully $400
radio $75(modded tq3)-$300+
2 motors $40-$100
1 or 2 esc's $100-$270
servo and arm $45-$100
plus all the little stuff

for $600 you can have a nicely set-up losi rig with top of the line gear

I completely agree. By looking only at price tag, the Losi is a great value. My problem with the Losi is that, at least in my opinion, it's not geared toward the first time buyer. The axles need greased (with a good quality grease) and broken in. They're very sensitive to motor & gearing choice, and at least for now, the CVD's seem to be a weak link.

I thought long & hard about getting one. I really really really think that it's a great piece, and I'm glad to see that Losi stepped up to the plate with such a capable rig right out of the box. I just don't think that it's the better choice for the first timer, and may turn them off to the hobby.

[meffie]

I went with a MOA Berg personaly as my first rig. While costing a bit more, I know how I am with Hobbies. I always get the hang too quickly, and want to upgrade fast. So I figured this time I'll start bigger and learn myself into a full comp rig. But that's just my logic.

I have to agree on the Losi LCC. In all the articles I've read, driving style can effect the duration of your motors greatly with the LCC. There's alot of burnt motors out there. The flip side though, is a newb like me wouldn't really have a driving style yet that would need to be changed to drive with the Worm Gears. Who knows.

[EvilTwin v2]

Originally Posted by meffie

I went with a MOA Berg personaly as my first rig. While costing a bit more, I know how I am with Hobbies. I always get the hang too quickly, and want to upgrade fast. So I figured this time I'll start bigger and learn myself into a full comp rig. But that's just my logic.

I have to agree on the Losi LCC. In all the articles I've read, driving style can effect the duration of your motors greatly with the LCC. There's alot of burnt motors out there. The flip side though, is a newb like me wouldn't really have a driving style yet that would need to be changed to drive with the Worm Gears. Who knows.

It's not so much a driving style issue as it is a necessity to run at a higher RPM under a greater load. I run with a couple guys with Losi's, and let me tell you, I'm extremely impressed with what it'll do. One guy's has run every single line that the bergs run and made it look easy. That's impressive for an "out of the box" crawler. However, in the 3 times I'm seen them run, there's been a couple broken CVDs, 1 burnt motor, and a melted spur gear.

I may end up running one eventually, but I'm going to let the other people work out the bugs first.

[meffie]

Originally Posted by EvilTwin v2

I may end up running one eventually, but I'm going to let the other people work out the bugs first.

Yah I came very close to getting one, but after all the articles on those bugs, I opted not too.

By driving style I meant keeping the load on, not getting in a bind etc. All the reasons people are having issues.

I'm sure once it's all worked out, it's going to be a fierce competitor

[Duuuuuuuude]

Nice article! This should keep the "what crawler should I get" questions down for at least 48 hours.

Really, well done. Someone should make it a sticky. Not that it would help...

[meffie]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Nice article! This should keep the "what crawler should I get" questions down for at least 48 hours.

I give it 12 hours at most!

[Dirty Hairball]

Nice job and thanks for helping me decide which way to go.

[Super_steve]

This thread makes me think even more...
How about the venom creeper? are they any good?