Why are RC X vs RC Y Reviews so biased?

[davemud]

I'm into micro RCs, I have a Losi Micro Crawler and Micro Trail Trekker. I want to get a larger truck that is the equivalent of my 2011 Norco Range
All Mountain Bike.

My first big RC needs to be able to climb technical terrain and then descend it just as well as my AM bike does. The Traxxas Summit seems like the ideal All Mountain RC but it is too big, too complicated and way too expensive.

The contenders are... not Axial... at least not new, they are too expensive and the RTRs are sold without a battery or charger. Adding those necessities in pushes the Axial "RTRs" into the Summit price range since I don't have any batteries or a charger.

Contenders are Traxxas Telluride, the Twin Hammers and althought not AM RCs the Vaterra Slickrock and Redcat RS 10. Every comparison of the Telluride and Twin Hammers against their Axial equivalent goes on about how the TT and TH are not scalers and not crawlers out of the box. These comments are not aimed at RCC specifically they are aimed at all forums and reviewers. I'm just posting it here because I'm a member here and spend much more time here than my posts suggest.

I have watched many many videos where both the TT and TH do very well and cover most of the terrain if not all the SCX or Wraith do even though they are never comparing an apples to apples setup. These comparisons also always focus on the crawling and technical terrain but almost never compare the flip side of the coin, a run at the race track where out of the box head to head the TT and TH will slaughter the SCX 10 and Wraith.

All of the RTR kits except the Rockslide, IMO for my use, require additional expense and upgrades to get them capable of doing what the average buyer wants.

The TT needs a comparable turn motor and locked diffs, the same gearing and the same size and brand tires for an apples to apples set up to compare against the SCX on as close to equal terms as possible but I have yet to see this done RC shop and website reviewers and where is that race track performance comparison footage?

The TH is usually compared against the Wraith using its 1.9 tires while the Wraith runs 2.2. How about some footage with the wheels swapped around, Wraith running 1.9 and TH on 2.2? Again though apples to apples Would be both vehicles running the same size wheel and tire set up.

Having watched a lot of videos on the TH and TH vs SCX I believe Jang at RCU when he says on the same wheel set up as the SCX 10 with the front diff locked and proper suspension set up the TH will out crawl the SCX 10 and I imagine this set up will keep up with the Wraith too.

TH and TT both come with a battery and charger.

Locking the diffs is free or a few bucks, a motor for the TT is half the cost of a decent charger a gear swap is a few bucks and tires about the cost of a battery.

For the TH I just need a good 2.2 crawler wheel set, some diff locking putty and time to learn how to set it up. I don't think the 2.2 tires are really necessary but with them its a quick swap to optimize the truck for the day.

Most shops sell Traxxas and Axial and Vaterra so why do so many of you hack on the TT for not being what the SCX 10 is or the TH for not being a Wraith? You should the make a sale either way.

All 4 of them need more money spent on them than the cost of the RTR kit, are the margins that much better on the Axials or what? I'm not trying to be argumentative here but these 4 vehicles are generally not being compared with comparable setups and the other side of the coin, the race track comparison isn't getting equal coverage and consideration either.

[Big Daddy]

Why would anyone want to compare a SCX10 on a race track? That's like taking a moped to Bonneville. The reason there are no videos comparing scalers/crawlers on a track is the same reason there are no videos comparing drifters on the rocks. The only videos of SCX10s on a track I have seen is U4RC.

I would be very surprised to see a Telluride crawl as well as an SCX10. Yes I'm bias as I have a few, but that also means I know what they will do.

You're kind of all over the place in your ideas, start with only RTRs and then modify them to make them as good as other RTRs and then compare? Then compare crawlers on a track? The Twin Hammer is a good rig, I wouldn't go 2.2 on it though, just a good set of 1.9s. It's pretty difficult to get a rig that crawls good and will be any fun at a track, well RTR anyways. Your going to spend some decent money on a good brushless system to get that kind of performance. Now if you want to be able to jump the occasional rock or something that's more realistic.

I've seen some good crawling THs and some stupid fast Wraiths, but none of them were close to an RTR. I think you are going to have to decide where you want to compromise, speed, crawling, or budget. Compromise on speed, maybe a Deadbolt. It should crawl decent out of the box and still should hop a rock here and there. Good middle ground would be a TH, the 2 speed trans helps on both ends. But I personally have never seen one crawl with stock electronics so I don't know how well they do. Otherwise your budget and imagination are the only limits.

[Wade]

I think people "hack" on traxxas because They take a chassis that has been around for years, change a few things throw on a different body and call it a crawler.......then take that same chassis throw on a truck body and huge tires and call it a monster truck.........Wait.... that's what we all do . Actually Traxxas markets for a different crowd. Now some people will trash them, but I actually like some of the traxxas stuff. I started back in the day with a Tamiya clodbuster then a blackfoot, but got out of it.....fast forward some years and the traxxas line got me back into the hobby. I would rather build a kit.....but traxxas has its place. I still own three traxxas trucks.

[Johnnysplits]

Originally Posted by davemud

The contenders are... not Axial... at least not new, they are too expensive and the RTRs are sold without a battery or charger. Adding those necessities in pushes the Axial "RTRs" into the Summit price range since I don't have any batteries or a charger

Wait, you have a $2500+ bicycle and a rtr axial is too expensive? Keep riding your bike and playing with your micros.

[Johnnysplits]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Why would anyone want to compare a SCX10 on a race track? That's like taking a moped to Bonneville

That's some funny shit

[Duuuuuuuude]

Traxxas makes good stuff, but they don't make anything that crawls as well as an Axial. That is not my own opinion, that is simply a product of the design goals of each brand/model.

Would an Axial get slaughtered on a race track? Yup. They were not designed with racetracks in mind.

This is a crawler site, not an all purpose basher site, or a racing site. We are naturally going to favor rigs that crawl really well. I don't know why anyone would think it would be any different.

[Nitro_Geezer_UK]

Stop whining and go buy what you feel will make you happy, doesnt matter if its a crawler or a basher, do what you want to do.

[Solitaire]

Since "RCC" is a crawler site, it shouldn't surprise you that the majority of preferences on here are...yes, crawler related. Trail trucks and rock climbers, not track racers. Yes, the Twin Hammers gets close to being a multiple use truck and it does fairly well in U4 type situations. A well setup Wraith can still outclimb it on the rocks.

Now, since you're in Port Moody, it would be advisable for you to join us at Ioco when the comp season starts in March where you can see first hand what each vehicle can do. I'll tell you up front that you will not see a Telluride, a Summit or a Twin Hammers on the rocks. They've been tried and found not as suitable as SCX10's and Wraiths. You may find them out on the trails, though.

[davemud]

I did say this being a crawler site I expect those trucks that excel at crawling would be favored. Money for RC is third behind my bikes and skiing so yes I'm on a budget and beyond that I can't justify 600.00 to get a truck I can use when I leave the LHS. Axials are the most expensive RTR kits but they are not RTR without a battery or charger and in principal that is an issue I can't get past.

I'm not going to race or comp crawl. I'm doing casual crawling and trailing on the local bike and hiking trails. I want a scale looking body but don't care what mechanics are under it. I like the look of the mechanics of all the trucks I listed. I like the concept of the TH most with the 2 speed transmission and 4 link IFS suspension. The rat rock bug in the TH photo gallery is the type of look I want.

I Have no interest in 1 brand over the other my interest is in a comparison between the platforms on what are equal terms in my opinion. For crawling equal terms is both axles locked on all trucks and all trucks on the same tire set up. From my mountain biker view point I want the truck to climb the technical trails and be able to do some of the stunts and jumps and to launch or wheelie drop a rock roll knee to waist high.

I have seen what the axials can do out at Ioco but they are no where near stock and I don't need the truck to climb up a wall like some of them can. I have fun at Ioco with the micros but I do want something bigger at least as capable and fast enough to be a good trail hiker. I do think the TH is going do what I want with some diff locking putty in the front and a second wheel set and a couple of batteries.

I appreciate the invite to Ioco but currently I work evenings and weekends so I doubt I'll be able to make a comp but I will try. I have seen other RC guys out there when I was heading home but they were not on the rocks they were heading for an area on the other side of the road that looks a bit like a gravel pit.

[6sharky9]

Originally Posted by davemud

I did say this being a crawler site I expect those trucks that excel at crawling would be favored. Money for RC is third behind my bikes and skiing so yes I'm on a budget and beyond that I can't justify 600.00 to get a truck I can use when I leave the LHS. Axials are the most expensive RTR kits but they are not RTR without a battery or charger and in principal that is an issue I can't get past.

I'm not going to race or comp crawl. I'm going do casual crawling and trailing on the local bike trails. I want a scale looking body but don't care what mechanics are under it. I like the look of the mechanics of all the trucks I listed. I like the concept of the TH most with the 2 speed transmission and 4 link IFS suspension. The rat rock bug in the TH photo gallery is the type of look I want.

I Have no interest in 1 brand over the other my interest is in a comparison between the platforms on what are equal terms in my opinion. For crawling equal terms is both axles locked on all trucks and all trucks on the same tire set up. From my mountain biker view point I want the truck to climb the technical trails and be able to do some of the stunts and jumps and to launch or wheelie drop a rock roll knee to waist high.

I have seen what the axials can do out at Ioco but they are no where near stock and I don't need the truck to climb up a wall like some of them can. I have fun at Ioco with the micros but I do want something bigger at least as capable and fast enough to be a good trail hiker. I do think the TH is going do what I want with some diff locking putty in the front and a second wheel set and a couple of batteries.

I appreciate the invite to Ioco but currently I work evenings and weekends so I doubt I'll be able to make a comp but I will try. I have seen other RC guys out there when I was heading home but they were not on the rocks they were heading for an area on the other side of the road that looks a bit like a gravel pit.

I paid $329.00 for my honcho..then less than another 100 for a charger/battery and deans connector.

They are quite capable out of the box...Sure if you compete on a top level you will want the best reliability you can possibly have and all the latest top of the line hardware for the most part but don't think a stock rtr wont surprise you because it will especially if new to them...Im still surprised at the performance but since decided I wanted more so ive done some tips and tricks and have added some upgrades...Cant be more happy with it for the cost,which is about the 600 or less you say you cant walk out of the hobby shop with one for..You can.

[o-o]

Originally Posted by davemud

Axials are the most expensive RTR kits but they are not RTR without a battery or charger and in principal that is an issue I can't get past.

I know what you're saying, but really this doesn't bother me, in fact I wish all RTR kits, cars, trucks, etc came with no charger or battery.

Of the thousands of battery and charger combinations that exist, which should they provide with the kit? Most people wouldn't use what comes with the kit anyway. If they did package a battery and charger with the kit it would add more cost to the kit for something that most people won't use anyway. I'm guessing most people who buy an axial will already have batteries and a charger or have no interest whatever came prepackaged.

I'm noob and entry level so I'm starting cheap and bought an RS10 which came with about the crappiest charger and battery imaginable. I wish Redcat would have kept their battery and charger and discounted the price whatever those items cost. Now I'm thinking of buying a Volcano EPX Pro that will come with another battery and charger that is useless to me... what a waste of money.

[davemud]

Originally Posted by 6sharky9

I paid $329.00 for my honcho..then less than another 100 for a charger/battery and deans connector...which is about the 600 or less you say you cant walk out of the hobby shop with one for..You can.

You are in the USA and I'm in Canada. The Honcho RTR is 430.00 in Canada, charger 75.00 and a pair of batteries probably about 40.00 to 50.00 each. Any US online purchase has to have shipping to Canada added on and shipping will bring the price up to the Canadian cost.

I didn't say say I couldn't get a Honcho for 600 I said I can't afford 600 and would not spend 600 even if I could because I'm not that into RC... yet

There is no shortage of info on this site and else where about the weaknesses of the Axial RTRs. All rtrs are the same in that respect. What needs to be upgraded or changed may differ from one to the next but the cost is about the same.

The difference with the Axials is they also need the necessities for those of us entering the hobby or 1/10 scale. RTRs are supposed to be ready to run with what is in the box but that is not the case with Axial and I won't support a company that ignores that.

I'm looking for a capable truck in a casual setting. I've seen here, elsewherer and been told at the LHS the Wraith isn't a really good crawler either. The comp level crawler guys do IMO either over look the capability of non specific crawlers to cover technical or rugged terrain with their ability to crawl over it the same way a dedicated crawler does.

The TH and Wraith are rock buggies or racers that are designed and intended for a different approach and style of driving compared with a crawler. They are intended to use speed and momentum to cover the terrain.

I sell and service bikes and skis for a living. I also teach and coach skiing and mountain biking. Advanced RCrs, cyclists and skiers who don't have a reason to deal with beginners much tend to assess everything only by how they would use it and not from a wider more open point of view.

To say the Wraith and TH aren't good crawlers, because they won't do well on an advanced comp course, has to be taken with a grain of salt.

[davemud]

Originally Posted by o-o

I know what you're saying, but really this doesn't bother me, in fact I wish all RTR kits, cars, trucks, etc came with no charger or battery.

Of the thousands of battery and charger combinations that exist, which should they provide with the kit?

I'm noob and entry level so I'm starting cheap and bought an RS10 which came with about the crappiest charger and battery imaginable. I wish Redcat would have kept their battery and charger and discounted the price whatever those items cost. Now I'm thinking of buying a Volcano EPX Pro that will come with another battery and charger that is useless to me... what a waste of money.

Funny you mention those RedCat Trucks because that combo would probably cover my needs well. I know the rtr batteries and chargers are entry level and I would up grade them too. In the mean time though they can be used and I can put the savings into the necessary upgrades of a good servo and steerer horn to make the RS 10 usable.

I've seen and driven my friend's RS 10 at Ioco and it is good enough for me but we both want something with some speed. In RCTV/RC Pit Stop's first Out of the Box Head to Head they put the TH against the Wraith... after they bought a battery for the Wraith and used, I'm guessing, a shop charger to charge it...

The TH is quite a bit faster and I less money to get the TH to crawl better than it is to make the Wraith faster.

Removing the battery and charger from the RS 10 RTR wouldn't change the price much because you know they don't cost much to put in the box.

Since I found out my Losi Micro 2.4 Spektrum radios will run Spectrum receivers it does open the possibility of a used roller. A used RTR is also possible and there is a stretched near new Slickrock available locally that may actually be my best next step up.

[U F'n A Racing]

Sounds like you should go with the twin hammers. Put some 500k fluid, or silicone ear plugs like I did, in the front diff and you're set. I've yet to break mine, after I replaced the broken (from the factory) shift servo. You can fine some stock 2.2 wheels with R35 tires on a bay for damn cheap. Then you have everything you want and you'll be setup to start spending more on upgrades.........just like everyone else does.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by davemud

The difference with the Axials is they also need the necessities for those of us entering the hobby or 1/10 scale. RTRs are supposed to be ready to run with what is in the box but that is not the case with Axial and I won't support a company that ignores that.

A rig that is fully assembled and has a servo, esc, and radio is RTR. I've purchased rtr crawlers and race vehicles from a handful of different companies, none of them had batteries or chargers.

Usually those included chargers and batteries are quickly replaced with something better anyway, so they are really only good for being able to run right home and drive it immediately.

Originally Posted by davemud

I'm looking for a capable truck in a casual setting. I've seen here, elsewherer and been told at the LHS the Wraith isn't a really good crawler either. The comp level crawler guys do IMO either over look the capability of non specific crawlers to cover technical or rugged terrain with their ability to crawl over it the same way a dedicated crawler does.

To say the Wraith and TH aren't good crawlers, because they won't do well on an advanced comp course, has to be taken with a grain of salt.

Out of the box, the Wraith really isn't a very good crawler. Very few rigs are.

But they can be more capable with some wise modifications. I have one (two now, actually) and I love it. Most fun I've had with a rig in a long time, but it won't come close to crawling at the level my old comp rig did. Even driving it differently won't change that because it is a matter of physics. Were I to gut it, strip it down, move the electronics around and clip off most of the cage, I could bring it up close to comp rig capability...but then it really wouldn't be a Wraith any more and would lose most of its charm.


My advice: quit worrying about it. If you just want a casual trail capable rig, pick one that you like best and go have fun.

[Johnnysplits]

Hey, toys-r-us sells true RTR's...maybe you can try there Otherwise, you're looking at a used rig for your price point.

[KJ10]

Personally, I'm glad they don't come with a battery and charger. Who would want Nimh batteries? You KNOW that's what they'd include.

My advice, which nobody wants to hear: Buy a star on here and check the classifieds for used rigs. Not sure how fast you're wanting to go but, almost sounds like you need two different trucks, to me.

[Gonemad]

Originally Posted by Johnnysplits

Hey, toys-r-us sells true RTR's...maybe you can try there Otherwise, you're looking at a used rig for your price point.

I don't want to grow up!

[Johnnysplits]

Originally Posted by U F'n A Racing

silicone ear plugs like I did, in the front diff

Seriously? That works? That's a first!!

[Gonemad]

Cheap, Fast, Reliable.

Pick 2.