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Thread: Torquemaster Outdrive on AX10 Scorpion? I need your help!

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Old 02-13-2019, 08:45 PM   #1
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Default Torquemaster Outdrive on AX10 Scorpion? I need your help!

Hello!
I have a NOS Warthog chassis/Scorpion build that I am working on...and I am stuck. I need your expertise!

I want to upgrade to hard metal gears in the trans and axles...and run MIP driveshafts. I would like to use the Holmes Torquemaster Outdrive setup in the trans. The Torquemaster Outdrive uses the scx10/Wraith style of driveshaft connection...not the older Scorpion C drive with a grub screw like I have going on.

Is it possible to use the scx10/Wraith style outputs and pinions on the Scorpion? What parts do I need to make this happen? Can I use MIP driveshafts with the updated "pin" style (not the grub screw, C type)? If so, what MIP part number do I need?

i'm 46...and I am a noob with crawlers for the most part...so here I am. I would really, really be grateful for some pro help.

Thank you so much, in advance.

Brandon
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Old 02-14-2019, 12:13 AM   #2
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Default Re: Torquemaster Outdrive on AX10 Scorpion? I need your help!

Steel gears into the Scorpion trans case should be no prob.

You can buy the MIP coupling with the newer style 5mm hole & screw pin connector. They'll be the same as the later HD ring/pinon axle gear sets also.
It looks like MIP have universally changed over to M4 screw pins (Traxxas) as opposed to the M3 (Axial)
Not at all a bad thing, the M4 has a bigger hex so allows you to torque tighter & less chance of stripping out hex or breaking smaller driver.

https://www.miponline.com/MIP-X-Duty...-x-5mm-1-18112
https://www.miponline.com/MIP-X-Duty...-x-5mm-1-18113
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Old 02-14-2019, 01:50 AM   #3
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Default Re: Torquemaster Outdrive on AX10 Scorpion? I need your help!

Wow! Thank you so much!!! So this will allow me to run the newer style ring and pinion and also the newer trans outdrives?

I followed your links to the MIP site. It looks like they have a new kit for the AX10 there??? Part number 18120 (110-135mm)

Would you be willing to look on MIP's site and confirm that part #18120 is what I need to order?
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Old 02-14-2019, 07:14 AM   #4
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Default Re: Torquemaster Outdrive on AX10 Scorpion? I need your help!

What wheelbase will your truck be?
12" - 12.5" (305mm - 317mm) ?

If so the#18120 should work

Last edited by altd896; 02-14-2019 at 07:18 AM.
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Old 02-14-2019, 08:12 AM   #5
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Default Re: Torquemaster Outdrive on AX10 Scorpion? I need your help!

It will be 12.5"
I see that equals 317.5mm when I do the conversion from inches to mm.

You taught me something! Now I think I understand what the measurements mean on the driveshafts!

So the 110mmx135mm (on the MIP #18120) means that it will function within that wheelbase range of 110mm to 135mm???
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Old 02-14-2019, 09:26 AM   #6
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Default Re: Torquemaster Outdrive on AX10 Scorpion? I need your help!

Yes kind of, drive shaft length is obviously a function of wheelbase & how long the trans is.
That's why the same drive shafts work in a Wraith as an scx10 even though the Wraith wheelbase is longer, the Wraith trans is longer also.

Your truck being basically same wheelbase as scx10 & having same trans, same drive shafts should work.
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Old 02-14-2019, 01:20 PM   #7
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Default Re: Torquemaster Outdrive on AX10 Scorpion? I need your help!

I understand what you are saying now now. (For the most part!)

I have much to learn, altd896.

This is a far cry from my "Gold Pan" RC10 racing Days and 1/12 Scale carpet racing. The electronics and battery technology and variety of vehicles (and brands) has come so far. My son just turned 8 and we built his first car last week. A Grasshopper. That car is how I entered the hobby as a young teen. Then the Kyosho Icarus. Then my Hotshot and my race-only RC10. I started racing it with then mechanical speed controller! They didn't even have pistol-type radios when I started. My first radio was an aluminum box with 2 sticks!

So, you see...I'm a bit of a dinosaur.

...And I realize that an AX10 Scorpion w/a Warthog Chassis isn't new tech. I just like it.

That revised MIP kit we have discussed is $72 US dollars. Holy crap!!! They are proud of that. I am trying to keep costs kind of low for this build...but it seems that to make it strong...the cost goes up exponentially.

In my area, I have not met any experts; except one hobby shop an hour away.

I question their expertise...and their prices are ridiculous.

That is why I have come here to this forum...and it is my pleasure to have had your help so far. I simply cannot thank you enough, man.

((( I have some other questions for you regarding this build...but I do not know if this thread is proper etiquette to ask them. I am still just trying to figure out how to do the basics here on RCCrawler. I don't even know how to PM anyone yet. )))

What is the best way to ask you a few more questions/ communicate with you regarding this build?

-Brandon
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Old 02-14-2019, 11:20 PM   #8
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Default Re: Torquemaster Outdrive on AX10 Scorpion? I need your help!

We're both dinosaurs together then cos I'm a year older than you, started with a Tamiya King cab in 1990 with as you say a twin stick Sanwa Dash radio.
Remember how happy you were when you got a new 2000mah nicad as opposed to the 1200mah everything came with & you got 2 extra minutes run time????
Till you realised that added 20 minutes to a full hour to charge.

I think to some degree RC was slightly easier back then, stuff for the Tamiya KC fitted that & almost nothing else, likewise RC10 or any of the others.
A lot of stuff now, while not ever intended to be universal, turns out to be usable across different platforms, hence using links off one truck on another, this drive shaft on that truck, swap this brand gearbox onto that brand chassis.

Yours being an ax10 it couldn't hurt to have a good dig through that section but you may have to go back a few years, a lot of the later stuff will be full blown carbon whiz bang comp crawlers rather than the more scale tuber style.
Probably good info in the scale rigs general section under both 1.9 & 2.2 sections, be a lot of component cross over.

As far as I'm concerned just keep asking question on this thread, I don't see a need to start a new one for every question.
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Old 02-15-2019, 01:58 AM   #9
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Default Re: Torquemaster Outdrive on AX10 Scorpion? I need your help!

Ahhh The classic ax10 Scorpion..... I'm right behind you at 40 and remember racing with my 2nd gen rc10 Black anodized chassis, and Rc10t tires....

The scx10 (not the scx10II) share the axles, driveshafts, and transmissions. The link lengths were shorter on the original scx but then hit the same length when the Honcho came out.

The Mip's are worth it. My buddy has broke 3-4 cheap chinese knockoffs and could have had mip's in for the same length of time for less money. I'm running Mip's from 2010 on my rigs btw. You can buy cheap, or buy once.

As far as run times, I generally do trail runs with my rigs and run small 2200mah 3s batteries, weighing in at 6oz each and get aprox 1-1.5 hours of running on a 20 min charge. Lipo's for the win. Battery tech has made huge leaps in energy density since I raced in the mid 90's.

I find one of the best balances of cost/wheel speed/run time, is a 35t motor(brushed) with a 3s battery. I generally use about 1100 mah per mile on the trail. 2s is less efficient.
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:03 AM   #10
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Default Re: Torquemaster Outdrive on AX10 Scorpion? I need your help!

If you are okay with me asking more questions here, that is really awesome!!!

Is there anyone who makes knuckle weights that will fit the AX10? I see that Samix offers a cool bolt-on for the SCX10II.

I am blown away by the stuff by DLUX...But I do not know if his knuckles are a direct bolt up. My guess is no.

I will add brass tubes (or stainless tubes from RC Bros?) to the axles...but don't have anything coming yet.

What are your thoughts on the knuckle weights?
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Old 02-16-2019, 04:36 AM   #11
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Default Re: Torquemaster Outdrive on AX10 Scorpion? I need your help!

Early Ax10 knuckles are I believe the same as scx10 & off hand I can't recall a knuckle weight still in production for them.

I do believe dlux can do a Ax10/sxc10 knuckle.
Other option is a xr mod beef tube, that will add about " to each side with xr uni joint axle shafts & xr/wraith/bomber chubs & dlux knuckles.
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Old 02-16-2019, 12:46 PM   #12
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Default Re: Torquemaster Outdrive on AX10 Scorpion? I need your help!

With a quick google search, I found a couple heavy knuckles for the ax10/scx10. Exact same axle/knuckle on the original scx10 and ax10. Dlux was one of the vendors I saw. Watch out for scx10II knuckles, as the aftermarket has really taken off with them.
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Old 02-16-2019, 02:05 PM   #13
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Default Re: Torquemaster Outdrive on AX10 Scorpion? I need your help!

Will the Dlux knuckles bolt up and allow me to use the standard hex? I guess what I am asking is if the knuckle is a direct swap. I saw that he offered knuckles for the AX10...but didn't know if that meant an easy swap. They look solid and heavy duty. ...I like that.

I was watching him do an assembly video and I was just blown the hell away. I am so antiquated and I have a hell of a lot to learn.

Did you say you saw another vendor offering weighted knuckles?

(((I wish I knew how to upload a pic so I could show you guys what I am starting with. Basically, I found a good AX10 roller that someone had put together. Everything is new. 4 link setup in the rear 3 up front with the Battery-on-axle plate that moves the servo over. Aluminum Chubs and knuckles. It has what I believe to be a HR low CG trans in it. It doesn't have the HR logo on it...but it looks exactly the same. Plastic gears though and they are real narrow. So whatever it is, is going bye-bye. That's the basics of it. As to why I would choose the Scorpion over a newer platform? Well, I got the NOS Warthog chassis for $50 and had always thought it was cool looking. So down the rabbit hole I went. I'm trying to make something that I like, that is durable..and fun...and possibly semi budget-conscious.)))
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Old 02-16-2019, 03:37 PM   #14
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Default Re: Torquemaster Outdrive on AX10 Scorpion? I need your help!

Altd896,

The axle mod you talked of sounds cool. I already bought a set of RC4wd front axles. Hopefully they are good. I didn't ask you guys 1st.

I also bought a Vanquish trans case. It says "Made in USA" on it's package. Is Vanquish stuff all made in the states? I try to buy U.S. made stuff if I can and if it is quality. Especially if it is from a small business or person. That is what turns me on so much about the stuff from Dlux. Definitely U.S. made. Also small business. Holmes Hobbies stuff appears to be that way as well.

(((I got out of Harleys. I used to build bikes. Then I adopted a son. Zane just turned 8. About 3 years ago, I suddenly had no desire to ride anymore. But that's another subject that probably doesn't belong here. (Etiquette) There was an art and a science behind doing custom stuff that many other people were not doing. Machining parts. TIG welding basically everything. Making stuff work that wasn't supposed to work. That is the H U G E appeal to the crawler-esque world that has me curious.)))

What is the name of the man behind Dlux?


...All more newbie questions. I'm gonna have a lot. I hope that doesn't bother people. Especially because I will be asking stuff that has been answered before. Somewhere, at some time.

I appreciate the expert advice immensely. This build is my first run at doing something that wasn't assembled in a factory...and isn't stock. Taking a bunch of parts and making something happen. If I like how this turns out...I will be hooked and will want to learn more. Learn how to fabricate things needed if that thing doesn't already exist. I already want to know how to do something that you guys probably consider elementary: Building custom links out of stainless or titanium.

But...that is not happening on this build. I have to take things slow, because I am not wealthy. I am now a "truly single" parent. I have bills to pay and for at least the present...my income is limited.

Possibly too much TMI...but this (coupled with a previous post) gives you an idea of who I am and what I am about. It all began with a 2 channel radio that was literally a tan aluminum box...back in 1986. Full size vehicles and choppers took over for many years; with only dabbling in RC. Now I am medically disabled and I am back to my roots.

If you read this whole thing...I'd give you a reward if I could

Brandon
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:19 PM   #15
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Default Re: Torquemaster Outdrive on AX10 Scorpion? I need your help!

RC4WD axles can be hit n miss, just remember all front axles have an angle limit which is often less than the knuckles & you need to adjust the steering end points to not steer passed that...otherwise ping, snap, break

Vanquish stuff is definitely made in the US, I've heard/seen here their Incision line is outsourced but can't say for sure from where.

The Dlux knuckles to suit AX10 are pretty much direct bolt on unless you tick one of the other option boxes, you may have to just clearance the C-hub on the top (I think) to fit, little work with a file nothing drastic.
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Old 02-17-2019, 11:02 PM   #16
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Default Re: Torquemaster Outdrive on AX10 Scorpion? I need your help!

I will take that reward...

Rc is a wonderful hobby, allows you to build your dream with a tenth of the cost.

I am assuming you picked up a hbz warthog chassis?

Don't count out the stock ax10 axles. My buddy is driving his rig on dog bones still after two years and countless miles. I on the other hand have upgraded Mip inner cvds and have broken them numerous times, usually sheering the pin. You do not have to spend a lot to enjoy this hobby, and don't let others tell you you have to get the latest and the greatest. I try to keep my spending to $80 a month. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't... lol
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Old 02-18-2019, 01:24 AM   #17
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Default Re: Torquemaster Outdrive on AX10 Scorpion? I need your help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lonleycreeper View Post
Don't count out the stock ax10 axles. My buddy is driving his rig on dog bones still after two years and countless miles. I on the other hand have upgraded Mip inner cvds and have broken them numerous times, usually sheering the pin. You do not have to spend a lot to enjoy this hobby, and don't let others tell you you have to get the latest and the greatest. I try to keep my spending to $80 a month. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't... lol

This is correct, stock dog bones are plenty strong & usually only fail when steered passed their limit or a C-hub fails & wrenches the whole knuckle & shaft off.....but then thats true of all front axle shafts.
The trap there being that often the expensive upgrade actually steers worse than stock but the expectation they'll steer tighter leads to failure.
Uni joint shafts tend to be the best compromise of strength with increased steer angle, great if your comping & every last degree is critical, if your just having fun & trailing the stock shafts can be ine & updated once one fails from old age/wheel bind.
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