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Thread: Metal on metal pinion&spur gear??

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Old 09-29-2019, 09:27 PM   #1
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Default Metal on metal pinion&spur gear??

Why is it that a aluminum/metal pinion gear paired with a metal spur gear makes so much noise for? I have those eBay transmissions, and they come with metal(aluminum im guessing)gears ? I mean, it's way loud. Does mesh affect the sound too?

Again many thanks!
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Old 09-29-2019, 10:00 PM   #2
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Default Re: Metal on metal pinion&spur gear??

That's "strange", as I've never noticed any noise (at least from the spur/pinion). Granted, I still don't have my first crawler (hoping the Axial Capra gets delivered tomorrow), but I have been using metal spur/pinion gears on some of my track/race vehicles. Of those using metal, one is currently using hardened steel (Robinson Racing Slipper Unit, although I am planning on replacing it with a center diff), while the others are using aluminum. The first vehicle is a Traxxas Rustler 4x4, while the others are various TLR vehicles.

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Old 09-29-2019, 11:10 PM   #3
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Default Re: Metal on metal pinion&spur gear??

Metal pinion on a metal spur making noise is common. Many people prefer a plastic spur not only to make it more quiet, but also to have it be intentionally the weakest link especially when you have upgraded axles and driveshafts.

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Old 09-29-2019, 11:21 PM   #4
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Default Re: Metal on metal pinion&spur gear??

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Originally Posted by spoo76 View Post
Metal pinion on a metal spur making noise is common. Many people prefer a plastic spur not only to make it more quiet, but also to have it be intentionally the weakest link especially when you have upgraded axles and driveshafts.

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With off-road bashing vehicles, such as most Traxxas vehicles (Rustler, Slash, Stampede, Rally, etc), it's understandable. But, racing vehicles are another story, as you're less worried about drivetrain "problems". As slow as most crawlers are going, I wouldn't have thought that much of a problem. Of course, where crawlers are concerned, I'm a newbie-to-the-max...lol

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Old 09-29-2019, 11:40 PM   #5
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Default Re: Metal on metal pinion&spur gear??

Crawlers also generally have alot more gear reduction and motors with more torque and get in more binds that would on other RCs have motor stall. Personally I know ill let off the throttle so for me the noise would be the only issue.

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Old 09-29-2019, 11:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: Metal on metal pinion&spur gear??

If you set metal pinion & spur gears like you would if one of them was plastic you're going to have a very noisy mesh. Steel on steel requires a lot more backlash than steel on plastic.
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Old 10-01-2019, 07:11 PM   #7
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Default Re: Metal on metal pinion&spur gear??

So no matter what,probably not a good idea to run metal on metal gears(pinion&spur) ?
Only way to fix it is by using a plastic spur gear?

By changing the pinion(different metal material) will it still sound the same?
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Old 10-01-2019, 07:42 PM   #8
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Default Re: Metal on metal pinion&spur gear??

Yes, and Steel Spur may melt an aluminum pinion.
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Old 10-01-2019, 08:40 PM   #9
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Default Re: Metal on metal pinion&spur gear??

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Originally Posted by lonleycreeper View Post
Yes, and Steel Spur may melt an aluminum pinion.
Sure found out the hard way...LOL now i know!......lol

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Old 10-01-2019, 11:51 PM   #10
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Default Re: Metal on metal pinion&spur gear??

Steel on steel is 100% fine if you use hardened gears of like metal and set the mesh right.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:07 AM   #11
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Default Re: Metal on metal pinion&spur gear??

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Originally Posted by WHITE-TRASH View Post
Steel on steel is 100% fine if you use hardened gears of like metal and set the mesh right.
Getting the mesh right is where many fail. In the Traxxas forum, I'm constantly reading posts where people have destroyed one or the other (usually the spur), usually because the mesh is too tight. There's a "trick" I learned from someone else, which (almost) always works.

Take a thin strip of paper, no more than 0.5" wide, and 2-4" long, and place it between the spur & pinion before tightening the motor's position. Set the motor where you think the proper mesh should be, and tighten into position...then, gently pull the paper. If the paper slips out too easily, the mesh is too loose. If the gears don't want to freely turn, & the paper seems like it's about to tear (or, worse, it does tear), the mesh is too tight. But, if pulling the paper allows the gears to turn, the paper doesn't slip out, and the paper doesn't tear, then the mesh is properly set.

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Old 03-16-2020, 11:29 PM   #12
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Default Re: Metal on metal pinion&spur gear??

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Originally Posted by Panther6834 View Post
Getting the mesh right is where many fail. In the Traxxas forum, I'm constantly reading posts where people have destroyed one or the other (usually the spur), usually because the mesh is too tight. There's a "trick" I learned from someone else, which (almost) always works.

Take a thin strip of paper, no more than 0.5" wide, and 2-4" long, and place it between the spur & pinion before tightening the motor's position. Set the motor where you think the proper mesh should be, and tighten into position...then, gently pull the paper. If the paper slips out too easily, the mesh is too loose. If the gears don't want to freely turn, & the paper seems like it's about to tear (or, worse, it does tear), the mesh is too tight. But, if pulling the paper allows the gears to turn, the paper doesn't slip out, and the paper doesn't tear, then the mesh is properly set.

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Great information! I recently assembled my Capra kit and did exactly this method to set the mesh. It felt like I had just enough movement between the four and pinion gears. Now I am getting all my electronics installed and calibrated the transmission is very loud. Is this normal for the Capra or do I need to pull everything apart? It feels like everything is free spinning and not binding.

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Old 03-17-2020, 05:57 AM   #13
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Default Re: Metal on metal pinion&spur gear??

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Originally Posted by HandSolo1980 View Post
Great information! I recently assembled my Capra kit and did exactly this method to set the mesh. It felt like I had just enough movement between the four and pinion gears. Now I am getting all my electronics installed and calibrated the transmission is very loud. Is this normal for the Capra or do I need to pull everything apart? It feels like everything is free spinning and not binding.
Check and make sure the idler gear isn't rubbing on the gear cover.

Mine was pretty loud when it was first assembled and I guessed the idler rubbing was the culprit. When I took the gear cover off, there was a fairly noticeable circular wear mark on it near that gear. A few shims later, everything was much quieter.
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Old 03-17-2020, 08:39 AM   #14
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Default Re: Metal on metal pinion&spur gear??

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Originally Posted by svt923 View Post
Check and make sure the idler gear isn't rubbing on the gear cover.



Mine was pretty loud when it was first assembled and I guessed the idler rubbing was the culprit. When I took the gear cover off, there was a fairly noticeable circular wear mark on it near that gear. A few shims later, everything was much quieter.
Will it eventually wear enough to stop and not damage anything? Where can I fine shims?

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Old 03-17-2020, 09:44 AM   #15
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Default Re: Metal on metal pinion&spur gear??

I dont have a Capra, but both of my Scx10II's were loud for the first battery pack or two. Then they became super smooth and quiet. My guess is the gears wore in a bit.
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Old 03-17-2020, 12:15 PM   #16
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Default Re: Metal on metal pinion&spur gear??

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Originally Posted by hobbyjumper View Post
Same here, but more like ten packs, and a shim or two.
Where can I find shims? Is there a "how to" video?

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Old 03-18-2020, 05:11 AM   #17
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Default Re: Metal on metal pinion&spur gear??

I have one crawler with steel on steel spur/pinion. In addition to making sure the mesh is set right, I used some dry lube called eezox (designed for guns) which also made a noticeable difference in the noise.
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Old 03-18-2020, 05:24 AM   #18
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Default Re: Metal on metal pinion&spur gear??

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Originally Posted by Smokin' Joe View Post
I have one crawler with steel on steel spur/pinion. In addition to making sure the mesh is set right, I used some dry lube called eezox (designed for guns) which also made a noticeable difference in the noise.



As White Trash and other's stated, setting mesh for steel on steel is different than steel to Plastic. I run steel on steel in all my crawlers with zero issues. The paper trick Panther mentioned goes way, way back, and still works relatively well as a rule of thumb or good starting point.


Anyway, I also occasionally apply a "DRY" lube to my systems. The one I use a bicycle chain wax. It applies as a liquid and sets as a dry, waxy substance. Definitely smooths things out and quiets the natural tendency towards noise with metal on metal. Being as it's dry, it does not attract grit, dirt, debris.
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Old 03-18-2020, 05:51 AM   #19
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Default Re: Metal on metal pinion&spur gear??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokin' Joe View Post
I have one crawler with steel on steel spur/pinion. In addition to making sure the mesh is set right, I used some dry lube called eezox (designed for guns) which also made a noticeable difference in the noise.
The "paper trick" isn't the only thing I use...I also use dry lubes. One worth considering is Rollerblade's DryFluid Extreme. For all of off-road & on-road race vehicles, I typically use it on the CVD joints, pucks, & outdrives. So far, I haven't found anything better.

I've used it on RCs, bicycles, and other metal-to-metal contacts (works great on door lock internals), and it's outstanding. I won't say it's "the best" dry lube...but, only because I haven't tried many different ones out. Once I tried RB's DryFluid Extreme, I stopped trying others. They only "down" side is the cost...a 10ml bottle topically runs $16-20.

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