Why can't a crawler also be genuinely fast?

[kurpis]

Hi everyone!

I was wondering why there isn't a crawler that is also fast?

I love basic crawling and I like RC trucks that look somewhat scale. However, I also would like to go faster than the trx4. People have suggested rock racers, but I dont like the body style and Im not looking to go fast on rocks. I just want something that looks scale, can do some crawling and can do some fast bashing. I essentially would like a crawler basher.

Why dont they exist and how can it be done (if you have any ideas)?

I really appreciate everyone's help!!!!

[Inspector86]

I suspect you're in the minority here on RCC wanting high speed in a scale crawler. There are bashers like Kevin Talbot who has built his TRX4 to run something like 60mph but that does not interest me in the least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q0uEntw70c

[Joshs4x4toyz]

Stick a brushless combo in the TRX! it is what I would say the toughest out of the box crawler. Guys have run them at speeds that are uncrollable lol. I have a TRX4 TTC truck with mamba X and 3500 Puller on 3s and it is beyond what youd do on the trails. If you have the 2 spd it is even better. I did go to the TRX HD parts but thats it.

In general, all my rigs are capable of silly speeds. But with the brushless combos they are great crawlers too.

[rampage]

If you want a scale "crawler" that's also high-speed, buy a trophy truck.

Losi Baja Rey, Yeti Score, UDR, something that's actually designed to go fast.

[kurpis]

Originally Posted by Joshs4x4toyz

Stick a brushless combo in the TRX! it is what I would say the toughest out of the box crawler. Guys have run them at speeds that are uncrollable lol. I have a TRX4 TTC truck with mamba X and 3500 Puller on 3s and it is beyond what youd do on the trails. If you have the 2 spd it is even better. I did go to the TRX HD parts but thats it.

In general, all my rigs are capable of silly speeds. But with the brushless combos they are great crawlers too.

Can you post a video of the TRX4 TTC truck with mamba X and 3500 Puller on 3s? I'd love to see it.

[kurpis]

Originally Posted by rampage

If you want a scale "crawler" that's also high-speed, buy a trophy truck.

Losi Baja Rey, Yeti Score, UDR, something that's actually designed to go fast.

I dont like any of those trucks. What is the technical reason why crawlers cant go fast? Remember I'm a newbie and not trying to be a pain in the ass. I just want to learn so I'm asking.

[rampage]

Originally Posted by kurpis

I dont like any of those trucks. What is the technical reason why crawlers cant go fast? Remember I'm a newbie and not trying to be a pain in the ass. I just want to learn so I'm asking.

Gearing for the most part. That's when you get into the complexity of multi-speed transmissions.

Same reason a real car can't go fast in 1st gear.

You can have multi-speed transmissions and can get decent speed but then you run into issues of driveability. Most notably suspension geometry and center of gravity. Most crawlers are designed to go slow so you're lacking things that real cars with solid axles have to tame down tendencies like death wobble. You never want to drive a Jeep at highway speeds with the swaybars disconnected. You'll probably die. Same goes for our crawlers. It would not be fun trying to control a solid axle vehicle with a high center of gravity at high speed without swaybars.

Something like one of the Tamiya CC-01s might be a good idea too. They're more mid-range geared for reasonable speed and reasonable crawling, they come with nice, detailed scale bodies and they have a good, if not somewhat dated IFS setup. They're also cheap and you get to build it yourself.

[kurpis]

Originally Posted by Inspector86

I suspect you're in the minority here on RCC wanting high speed in a scale crawler. There are bashers like Kevin Talbot who has built his TRX4 to run something like 60mph but that does not interest me in the least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q0uEntw70c

I dont need 60mph. I just want the feeling of real life. If I go crawling with my real jeep, I still can hit highway speeds on the way to and from the spot. I would like to recreate it. Maybe I'm just a newbie and dont get it, but anything to help me understand is genuinely appreciated. Thanks!

[kurpis]

Originally Posted by rampage

Gearing for the most part. That's when you get into the complexity of multi-speed transmissions.

Same reason a real car can't go fast in 1st gear.

Ohhh. That first gear analogy makes sense. Any way to work around that?

[Inspector86]

Originally Posted by kurpis

I dont like any of those trucks. What is the technical reason why crawlers cant go fast? Remember I'm a newbie and not trying to be a pain in the ass. I just want to learn so I'm asking.

There is no technical reason why a TRX4 can't go fast. Throw in a Mamba X and a stupid fast motor and go knock yourself out. The link I posted above shows exactly how Kevin made his TRX4 stupid fast. The real problem is that the TRX4 and other similar crawlers are not stable at speed

[rkj__]

Originally Posted by kurpis

Hi everyone!

I was wondering why there isn't a crawler that is also fast?

I love basic crawling and I like RC trucks that look somewhat scale. However, I also would like to go faster than the trx4. People have suggested rock racers, but I dont like the body style and Im not looking to go fast on rocks. I just want something that looks scale, can do some crawling and can do some fast bashing. I essentially would like a crawler basher.

Why dont they exist and how can it be done (if you have any ideas)?

I really appreciate everyone's help!!!!

I totally get where you are coming from.

I’d be interested in a truck faster than a crawler, but slower than a UDR/Baja Rey etc, with a scale full truck body, not a full on trophy truck or caged rock racer.

That said, something like the Redcat Wendigo is kind of close, but ultimately, I’m not a fan. It’s still a little too fast, and can’t handle the speed very well.

That’s where the problem lies, and why what you are looking for is not popular. The truck would not be able to handle the speed, and would roll over a lot.

As posted above, a TRX4 with a big brushless system is likely your best bet. Some are starting to experiment with the IFS Enduro, but I have not been able to come to a conclusion on those yet.


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[rampage]

Originally Posted by kurpis

Ohhh. That first gear analogy makes sense. Any way to work around that?

2-speed transmissions and all the wonder and suck that come with them.

But yeah a TRX4 is probably a good starting point but hell I don't even think they need a big brushless setup. On a stock 21t 550 they go almost 11mph and at 11mph they look like they're going 120mph..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7opCVoR1iSw

Speed stuff starts at about 2:15.

[rampage]

Alternatively, something like one of the Tamiya CC-01s might do the trick for you. They're geared for reasonable top speed and reasonable low-speed 'creep', they have fairly low CGs, they have a good, if not somewhat dated IFS setup and they come with a range of nice, scale bodies. They're also reasonably cheap and they come as kits so you get to build them yourself.

[HumboldtEF]

Another factor contributing to why this isn't common or offered by a manufacture is that crawlers have fully locked diffs front and rear. Locked diffs and cornering dont go well together, what you'll get is tons of traction rolling if you try to corner at speed (instant roll over).

This is not to say you cant have fun with a fast crawler but you will need to slow down to corner or be ready to countersteer. Just go brushless, tons of guys run fast crawlers with brushless setups. You'd just need to make sure you dont overheat the electronics when going for a faster setup particularly when changing the gearing to go faster.

[vinnieb729]

You could use a 2 speed transmission like the SSD Wraith model 2 Speed Transmission Kit for Wraith. It was a wide gear ration between first (4.91:1) and second (1.8:1) vs stock Axial 2.6:1...more so than other stock two speeds also. That coupled with a Mamba X and Holmes Puller Pro 2700-3500 or Tekin Roc412/HD 3100 would give you more speed than you'd probably want. Plus it would crawl well. Pinion changes and Mamba X settings will help dial in low speed control and speed.

Don't let the tiny truck wander too far from you. Like others mentioned, you'll be flipping it back on it's wheels quite a bit

[JatoTheRipper]

What makes you think crawlers can't go fast? They sure can go fast as well. All you need is a brushless motor.

Click the links if the POS embed isn't working.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7nG9Vi3vmaY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nG9Vi3vmaY


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/EzmwBNMcCak" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzmwBNMcCak


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DHz47dTAq5Q" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHz47dTAq5Q

[kurpis]

Originally Posted by rampage

2-speed transmissions and all the wonder and suck that come with them.

But yeah a TRX4 is probably a good starting point but hell I don't even think they need a big brushless setup. On a stock 21t 550 they go almost 11mph and at 11mph they look like they're going 120mph..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7opCVoR1iSw

Speed stuff starts at about 2:15.

Thanks for all the information. In that 1 trx4 video, it does look fast at 11mph. What type of setup could get it to the 15mph+ level?

[kurpis]

Originally Posted by vinnieb729

You could use a 2 speed transmission like the SSD Wraith model 2 Speed Transmission Kit for Wraith. It was a wide gear ration between first (4.91:1) and second (1.8:1) vs stock Axial 2.6:1...more so than other stock two speeds also. That coupled with a Mamba X and Holmes Puller Pro 2700-3500 or Tekin Roc412/HD 3100 would give you more speed than you'd probably want. Plus it would crawl well. Pinion changes and Mamba X settings will help dial in low speed control and speed.

Don't let the tiny truck wander too far from you. Like others mentioned, you'll be flipping it back on it's wheels quite a bit

Awesome information. I'm a still a newbie and don't know what half of it means, but I copied and pasted it into a word document because I know it will come in handy. Thanks man!

[kurpis]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

What makes you think crawlers can't go fast? They sure can go fast as well. All you need is a brushless motor.

Click the links if the POS embed isn't working.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7nG9Vi3vmaY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nG9Vi3vmaY


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/EzmwBNMcCak" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzmwBNMcCak


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DHz47dTAq5Q" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHz47dTAq5Q

Those videos are great. Thanks. Can I get 15 to 20mph out of a brushed engine? And if yes, what setup would you recommend?

[kurpis]

Originally Posted by HumboldtEF

Another factor contributing to why this isn't common or offered by a manufacture is that crawlers have fully locked diffs front and rear. Locked diffs and cornering dont go well together, what you'll get is tons of traction rolling if you try to corner at speed (instant roll over).

This is not to say you cant have fun with a fast crawler but you will need to slow down to corner or be ready to countersteer. Just go brushless, tons of guys run fast crawlers with brushless setups. You'd just need to make sure you dont overheat the electronics when going for a faster setup particularly when changing the gearing to go faster.

Thanks for the info!!