New to crawling

[King Dork]

Originally Posted by Voodoobrew

If you like low end grunt then try an outrunner, They will absolutely destroy a 550 any day. Less drag brake though.

This is so true. The first motor I put in my UMG10 was a Trailmaster Sport 21t 550. This motor actually did very well in this rig and I had no complaints. Replaced it with a Revolver V2 Snubnose 2500kv. The motor looked almost comical being that it’s only about 1/4 of the length (if that) of the Trailmaster Sport. I was SHOCKED the first few times I had to grab a handful of throttle. It was beyond what I expected for certain. Lol. I, on the other hand, have amazing drag brake on mine. Truck will flip forwards before it’ll roll. My UMG10 does not run an interior, pen spring mod, and SSD brass front knuckles. It’s not easy to flip over forward and side hills better than most of my other rigs despite the tall/forward body. I also run a Revolver V2 2200 standard, and 2 Puller Pros (1 standard, 1 stubby) in other trucks so obviously it’s not on any of their torque levels, but still very respectable.

[MOguy]

Originally Posted by Voodoobrew

If you like low end grunt then try an outrunner, They will absolutely destroy a 550 any day. Less drag brake though.

Are you saying an outrunner will have less drag brake?

[King Dork]

Originally Posted by MOguy

Are you saying an outrunner will have less drag brake?

I was curious as well. My Capra and UMG10 both have Revolvers and both stay put on inclines. Maybe esc settings?

[Voodoobrew]

Well the outrunners vary. So I suppose their drag brake varies. Mostly I do my testing with a cheaper $24 hobbystar outrunner.

The drag brake just shorts the 3 motor wires together by opening the 3 ground side mosfets. So if brake on stop is selected drag brake is 100%.

The strength and size of the magnets plus the distance of the magnets from the windings as we) as the quality of the windings or their inductance play a big role.

The Holmes revolvers will have a better dragbrake then the off brands.

But they all seem weaker then a 2200kv brushed 550 trail master sport. So they may still hold you in place on an incline. But I don't think as well as the brushed motor I mentioned.

Maybe I have a false impression because when playing with the outrunners and shorting the wires I keep testing the outside of the housing instead of the shaft. Where on a brushed motor there is no easy way to spin the shaft if the wires are shorted.

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[MOguy]

Originally Posted by Voodoobrew

Well the outrunners vary. So I suppose their drag brake varies. Mostly I do my testing with a cheaper $24 hobbystar outrunner.

The drag brake just shorts the 3 motor wires together by opening the 3 ground side mosfets. So if brake on stop is selected drag brake is 100%.

The strength and size of the magnets plus the distance of the magnets from the windings as we) as the quality of the windings or their inductance play a big role.

The Holmes revolvers will have a better dragbrake then the off brands.

But they all seem weaker then a 2200kv brushed 550 trail master sport. So they may still hold you in place on an incline. But I don't think as well as the brushed motor I mentioned.

Maybe I have a false impression because when playing with the outrunners and shorting the wires I keep testing the outside of the housing instead of the shaft. Where on a brushed motor there is no easy way to spin the shaft if the wires are shorted.

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You definitely have a false impression ESP if you think a sport looks up more than a Revolver. the Revolver can look up completely and instantly. If you see ones that don't it is because whoever set up the ESC set them up that way or their is an issue with the ESC.

Try spinning the wheels of a Revolver that has the drag brake set all the way up. If they don't lock it is because of the ESC and how it is set.

[Voodoobrew]

You are talking about a moving vehicle?

I am only talking about stopping on an incline.

An outrunner (I think) has way more stopping power at speed. The energy to produce rotating resistance, comes from the rotation itself. So the more rpms the more stopping power produced. There is no external battery power used when braking.

But at 0rpm or 1 rpm. Brushed seems better. It also adds the drag of the brushes.

I am glad you are happy with your drag brake.

My main point was if your using a stubby outrunner that's smaller then a brushed motor, but still produces more power. It's possible to lose some drag brake.

Maybe or maybe not enough to roll down an incline.

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[Voodoobrew]

Also you can adjust the braking now.
It was added in 1.74 I think.

The 0 rpm brake I don't think is affected.

This brake setting only affects braking when moving.

It might not have anything to do with crawlers. Which only use brake on stop and complementary pwm for stopping.

The brake slider is probably for rc car mode where reverse is brake, I will have to look into it.

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[MOguy]

Originally Posted by Voodoobrew

Also you can adjust the braking now.
It was added in 1.74 I think.

The 0 rpm brake I don't think is affected.

This brake setting only affects braking when moving.

It might not have anything to do with crawlers. Which only use brake on stop and complementary pwm for stopping.

The brake slider is probably for rc car mode where reverse is brake, I will have to look into it.

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I don't think there's an RC motor that exists on this planet that's going to have a better drag break then a Revolver or other decent OutRunner. I do have other brushed motors, not a sport, and other brushless motors that will stop instantly too but not with the abruptness that a revolver or decent OutRunner will.

If the drag brake doesn't stop your RC with a Revolver instantly and hold it at any speed on any angle that it won't fall down then the ESC is not set to do that. I have Castle esc, if I set my drag brake to 100% and it instantaneous that motor will stop instantly and if I'm going at speed I will break things.

[Voodoobrew]

Again you keep talking about stopping. I am not talking about stopping. I am talking about not moving. There is a huge difference.

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[MOguy]

Originally Posted by Voodoobrew

Again you keep talking about stopping. I am not talking about stopping. I am talking about not moving. There is a huge difference.

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I am talking about stopping and holding or staying put or not moving.

[Voodoobrew]

Stopping and holding are not the same.

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[MOguy]

Originally Posted by Voodoobrew

Stopping and holding are not the same.

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hold in place
DEFINITIONS
To make something fixed or stable; to cause to be firmly attached.

I am talking about what is defined above.

[Voodoobrew]

No, you keep talking about stopping. This is different. When you take an object in motion, and reduce the motion. The motor in this case turns into a generator. Actually it turns into 3 generators. All of which are shorted together. So it's movement generates its own stopping power.

When there is no movement, or it's held in place, that generated power from a coil of wire moving through a magnetic field isn't there. Where do you think the holding power ccommutation.

A significant amount of this force comes from the brushes physically dragging on the commutator.

Also the magnets attraction to the steel laminations, which is stronger in a 3 slot brushed motor then a 12 pole motor.

You can continue to argue if you wish. But I'm done talking about it.

I never said an outrunner will not hold your car in place either. I said it is not as good. Meaning it will take less force for it to roll down hill.

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[DRED805]

Originally Posted by MOguy

hold in place
DEFINITIONS
To make something fixed or stable; to cause to be firmly attached.

I am talking about what is defined above.

Sooo, it turns out big underlined text is pretty annoying.

[MOguy]

Originally Posted by Voodoobrew

No, you keep talking about stopping. This is different. When you take an object in motion, and reduce the motion. The motor in this case turns into a generator. Actually it turns into 3 generators. All of which are shorted together. So it's movement generates its own stopping power.

When there is no movement, or it's held in place, that generated power from a coil of wire moving through a magnetic field isn't there. Where do you think the holding power ccommutation.

A significant amount of this force comes from the brushes physically dragging on the commutator.

Also the magnets attraction to the steel laminations, which is stronger in a 3 slot brushed motor then a 12 pole motor.

You can continue to argue if you wish. But I'm done talking about it.

I never said an outrunner will not hold your car in place either. I said it is not as good. Meaning it will take less force for it to roll down hill.

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My Revolvers will go (slow or fast, accelerate or slow down) stop, and will hold better than my sports. I don't know the mechanics behind it, maybe its magic?

Not sure if you are joking or serious?

Somebody is this section could probably help understand it better. http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/holmes-hobbies/

[King Dork]

I’ll ever claim to be any sort of electrical wizard, but I definitely feel like I know much less about drag brake, etc than I did before this dick measuring contest took place. Lol