Jato The Mudboss - Dirt Oval Racing

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by CM9000

looks like a easy design. I might make a few for some de rims.

I don't know why I haven't jumped on the shapeways store bandwagon yet. I could make a few hundred from one 20 minute design...

It is a simple design. Most good ideas are of the simple, why-didn't-I-think-of-that variety.

It's not that simple to make money. There's thousands of people designing RC parts. Plus, Shapeways is not cheap so it's difficult to design things that will be reasonably priced while still giving you profit.

If you have your own commercial grade printer then you cut out the expensive middle man. Or you could be like 95%+ of the "companies" selling 3D printed parts that make and sell low resolution garbage.

Originally Posted by OSRC

Noob. Putting the bladder in the cap first leaves you no way of verifying that the shock is full of oil.

• Fill the shock with oil, with the shock shaft about 3/4 of the way out...leave about 2mm space from the top (ish).
• Put the bladder on. Some oil should ooze over onto the threads. If the oil does not ooze out, you did not fill it full enough.
• Mop it up said oil with a finger, and liberally smear it on top of and on the sides of the bladder.
• Screw the top on.
• Wipe off remaining oil.

The bladders are tearing because they are getting too much friction as you screw the cap on. A little oil "lubes" it enough so it won't tear.

Hehe. I tried putting the bladder on the shock top first and for some reason I couldn't get the shock caps to slip down over the bladder. I was afraid to push the cap too hard and wreck the bladders. So while trying to avoid damaging the bladders by putting them in the shock caps I damaged the bladders. The bladder was soaked with oil though.

The second time around I put the bladders on the shock and just pushed the caps down harder. I was being a girly man because I was afraid to wreck the bladders.

Your instructions are simple and the same basic steps as any shock building guide. It's never that easy for me.

I fill the shock bodies so that there's a slight overflow. I then push the bladders on. I can do this twenty times and the shocks will rebound twenty different amounts. That's the parts that I can't ever seem to get right.

[kongluc]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

I fill the shock bodies so that there's a slight overflow. I then push the bladders on. I can do this twenty times and the shocks will rebound twenty different amounts. That's the parts that I can't ever seem to get right.

The way powerman5000 was describing it does work...the part about screw the cap on about half way. First remove the rod ends...Fill the shock with oil(i push the the shaft out to where i'm putting oil under the diaphragm ..eliminates "any" air...then slowly pull the shaft back don to the bottum of the cylinder) put the bladder "in the shock-cap" screw it on halfway...now to the part about removing the rodends...with the caps on about halfway or so they shouldn't leak unless pressure is applied. Butt the rr shock shafts and apply pressure until they are the same lenght and to where you prefer them to "rebound" to...

Repeat for the front...it's pretty messy!

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[JatoTheRipper]

I got my custom wrapped Mudboss body. Unfortunately, it had shipping damage. He shipped the wrapped paints jammed together in a padded envelope. I hate that common sense is a dying skill. Of course the panels rubbed together and gouged the side panels. He also messed up the left side of the body. The #2 and the bull are skewed forward for some odd reason. He said he would fix the body if I mailed it back to him, but he couldn't guarantee that I'd have it back in two weeks for the next race. What kind of customer service is that? So I asked him to print the vinyl and send it to me and I'd install it myself. For now, here is the body assembled and installed. I think everything is ready and I will be racing next Sunday unless something changes.





I'm also having some issues with the truck. All of the wheels spin true except the left front. It's badly warped. The aluminum "upgraded" bellcrank also has lots of play. Traxxas is being difficult in standing good for it so we will see what happens.

[Di_Spencer]

Looks good. Do you have to run the stock slash tires or can you change them?

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[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by Di_Spencer

Looks good. Do you have to run the stock slash tires or can you change them?

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Thanks!

Yes, in the stock class you have to run your choice of the stock Slash tires (BFG, Kumho, or Traxxas treads). You can't use these in the S1 compound.

Once you move up to 13.5T you can also run the Duratrax Bandito tires. In the mod class you can run any tire.

These are the rules at my truck anyway.

[kongluc]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

Thanks!

Yes, in the stock class you have to run your choice of the stock Slash tires (BFG, Kumho, or Traxxas treads). You can't use these in the S1 compound.

Once you move up to 13.5T you can also run the Duratrax Bandito tires. In the mod class you can run any tire.

These are the rules at my truck anyway.

Can you use aftermarket rims with the stock tires? The trx rims aren't that good for racing and proline sc foams would be helpful also...

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[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by kongluc

Can you use aftermarket rims with the stock tires? The trx rims aren't that good for racing and proline sc foams would be helpful also...

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I believe my track allows different wheels, but not foams.

Why do you say the Traxxas rims aren't good for racing - because of the weight?

[kongluc]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

I believe my track allows different wheels, but not foams.

Why do you say the Traxxas rims aren't good for racing - because of the weight?

The rims are split down the middle...half the rim is one size and another size for the other...they have 2 super soft foams inside there...most racing rims use pretty much an 1/8 buggy foam...and the foams sit completely flat across the rim...

Yes all the rims say 3.0/2.2 but that's only tire mounting specs...not a chopped up wheel

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[Di_Spencer]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

I believe my track allows different wheels, but not foams.

Why do you say the Traxxas rims aren't good for racing - because of the weight?

I believe that the main reason is rtr wheels tend to be cheaper and more flexible. Wheels like DE racing wheels are supposed to be much firmer than rtr wheels for more steering and consistent handling. For example, I have aka and a DE racing 2wd buggy front wheels and if I squeeze both of the wheels the aka is much easier to bend. That's just my $.2.

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[Di_Spencer]

Originally Posted by kongluc

The rims are split down the middle...half the rim is one size and another size for the other...they have 2 super soft foams inside there...most racing rims use pretty much an 1/8 buggy foam...and the foams sit completely flat across the rim...

Yes all the rims say 3.0/2.2 but that's only tire mounting specs...not a chopped up wheel

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Great point kongluc. Just so it's easier for Jato to see. Here is a pic of traxxas wheels vs a DE racing Borrego wheel.

*disclaimer: this is an rc4wd wheels but it has the same basic shape as a traxxas wheel.


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[JatoTheRipper]

I see what you mean now. I do have some Borrego wheels on which I'm going to put Bandito tires. I'm sure I'll either move up to 13.5T or just build another car. But since stock foams are required in the stock class I don't see any benefit of using a different wheel as far as the foams go.

[Di_Spencer]

I just remembered. Another wheel to look at is the jconcepts Hazard as I'm pretty sure they make an insert similar to what you did to make it a dish wheel.

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[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by Di_Spencer

I just remembered. Another wheel to look at is the jconcepts Hazard as I'm pretty sure they make an insert similar to what you did to make it a dish wheel.

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Those are pretty cool!

I double checked the rules and I can use any wheel, but the foams must be whatever comes with the tires.

[JatoTheRipper]

I was quite annoyed when I bought an "air cleaner" online and it turned out to be a juice bottle cap with some chrome wrap on the top. I was so annoyed, in fact, that I designed and printed my own. I'm biased, but I think mine looks much better.

[JatoTheRipper]

I finally had a chance to race my Mudboss this weekend. I started with something close to the Mudboss suggested setup for a loose track. I'm not a fan of that setup at all. In practice I could not get my car to turn unless I slowed down a lot for the turn and I was off the throttle or at least only using partial throttle. Because of this I started getting hard on the brakes into the turn to get the rear end to slide out. I spun out a lot learning this. After some tweaks the car seemed better, but I still wasn't happy with it.

In the first heat I started 9th out of 10 and finished 4th. Not bad considering it was my first time out with the car and I wasn't happy with the way it was handling.

I made some more tweaks before the second heat. The car seemed to get worse. The severe push had returned so I resorted to braking hard again. I spun out a lot trying to slide the car because it simply wouldn't turn any other way. I finished 4th out of 4.

With those results I didn't make the A Main. I made some more changes before the B main. I am not a setup guy. I typically setup a car and learn to drive it. I told myself to just drive the car that way it had to be driven in the main. I decided I was going to brake before the turn, get slow for the turn, and drive out hard. I also decided I was going to brake on the straight so I didn't spin out in the turn. I pushed hard, tried to stay focused (difficult for me), and tried to stay consistent. I started in 3rd and about 10 laps or so into the race I took the lead and never looked back. I was happy with a B Main win for my first outing.

I got bumped up to the A Main where I started 6th out of 7th and that's where I finished. My new battery didn't seem to have any pep.

I need to try to get the car to turn. Before the main I put a larger spring spacer on the left rear shock and the next smaller sizes on the right rear shock. I was thinking this would lean the car forward and put more weight on the front wheels while also putting more weight on the right rear tire. I think it helped a little, but not as much as I wanted. What suggestions do you guys have for getting the car to turn better? Thanks.

[kongluc]

Limiters...and you're on the right track with rake...losi springs. typically you lower the left not raise it...ball diff(never tried one but always knew that's what i needed) i drove with a spool...should have gotten a ball diff instead

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[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by kongluc

Limiters...and you're on the right track with rake...losi springs. typically you lower the left not raise it...ball diff(never tried one but always knew that's what i needed) i drove with a spool...should have gotten a ball diff instead

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What do you mean by limiters? The shocks have lots of internal limiting to drop the ride height quite a bit.

In stock Mudboss you can't change the springs or diff or anything like that.

In real oval racing cars typically lean inside because of tire stagger and setup. You can't stagger Mudboss tires so from what I've read so far people get the car to turn by raising the left side of the car which puts more traction on the outside rear tire.

[kongluc]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

What do you mean by limiters? The shocks have lots of internal limiting to drop the ride height quite a bit.

In stock Mudboss you can't change the springs or diff or anything like that.

In real oval racing cars typically lean inside because of tire stagger and setup. You can't stagger Mudboss tires so from what I've read so far people get the car to turn by raising the left side of the car which puts more traction on the outside rear tire.

Like bump stops on the right to make it hook...but with a completely open diff it might just diff out a lot...i ran internal and external with medium stiff shock setup...finished first in the main a few times but always made it to the mains...out of always 30 or more entries...probably would have always been a threat with a ball diff...

If you jack up the left and lean it to the right where....is the traction for the left to keep forward momentum? Just losing a lot of "traction" there is a difference between traction and grip...you got too much grip and not enough traction....the higher up in the classes you go you'll understand...

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[Robbob]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

What do you mean by limiters? The shocks have lots of internal limiting to drop the ride height quite a bit.

In stock Mudboss you can't change the springs or diff or anything like that.

In real oval racing cars typically lean inside because of tire stagger and setup. You can't stagger Mudboss tires so from what I've read so far people get the car to turn by raising the left side of the car which puts more traction on the outside rear tire.

Right rear steers you ..... Left rear pushes you off

Stand the right rear shock up, lay the left in? Drop oil weight in the right rear and let it squat on throttle to the right rear? Play with your roll centers and camber changes?

Never ran a mud buss on the dirt but being an oval guy for years theres lots of things I could think of to make a car turn besides jacking the weight to the right.

Any pictures of the track? Mudbuss? Is it loose or clay track?

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by kongluc

Like bump stops on the right to make it hook...but with a completely open diff it might just diff out a lot...i ran internal and external with medium stiff shock setup...finished first in the main a few times but always made it to the mains...out of always 30 or more entries...probably would have always been a threat with a ball diff...

If you jack up the left and lean it to the right where....is the traction for the left to keep forward momentum? Just losing a lot of "traction" there is a difference between traction and grip...you got too much grip and not enough traction....the higher up in the classes you go you'll understand...

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I have plenty of forward bite. The stock motor doesn't have much power and it rarely gets too lose coming out of the turn or going down the straight.

Originally Posted by Robbob

Right rear steers you ..... Left rear pushes you off

Stand the right rear shock up, lay the left in? Drop oil weight in the right rear and let it squat on throttle to the right rear? Play with your roll centers and camber changes?

Never ran a mud buss on the dirt but being an oval guy for years theres lots of things I could think of to make a car turn besides jacking the weight to the right.

Any pictures of the track? Mudbuss? Is it loose or clay track?

I'm not an oval guy. This is 100% completely new to me.

I don't have any photos of the track offhand, but here are two videos of it. I am not in either of these races.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSMojEz4wqA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUtMnnG-LWU&t=102s