Traxxas 2WD Slash Alternate/Replacement Options for Big Bore Shocks Springs

[Panther6834]

I've got a 2WD Slash I'm using for Spec Slash (as opposed to Stock Spec Slash) racing at my local track (carpet). I've installed the LCG Conversion Kit, as well as the Traxxas Big Bore shocks...but, I feel the springs are too soft (the truck rolls a bit too easily, especially on the right U-turns). I want to replace the stock (white w/ red 'rate indicator') springs with stiffer springs, but trying to get spring rate info from Traxxas is all but impossible. I'd probably have a better chance of pulling Excalibur from the stone. Obviously, the 'Ultra' & 'Big Bore' shocks use spring with different IDs...but, any info beyond that, Traxxas either doesn't have, or they won't say.

On one hand, Traxxas provides excellent customer support. On the other hand, they provide horrible & worthless support. If you buy something...say, the sway bar kit for the Slash/Rustler 4x4, and it's missing a couple grub screws, call Traxxas Support, and replacements shipped to you asap. However, call them with questions related to things like spring rates, or shock full-extension lengths, or differences between servos (such as 2075 vs 2075X vs 2075R), and you'll get nothing more than a verbalized version of a Homer Simpson "blank face". In other words, they haven't got a clue. I can't completely blame the support technicians, as it's Traxxas (the company) that won't even supply their own technician with this MUCH-needed information. So...I turn to "the masses", in how's of getting helpful/useful info.

In short, what other options are there? Honestly, I don't care what brand the springs are...Traxxas, or another brand. I just need to know what the (approximate) rate is of the stock springs, what 'other' springs fit (front & rear) the Big Bore shocks, what rates (of these other options) are available, and how these 'other' rates compare to how Traxxas rates their springs (since we all know their shock oil & diff fluid rates are "different" than other brands). Any, and all, assistance/suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[themountain]

What length and ID do they have ...Associated has a huge assortment, so does Proline

[MAC FAB]

Originally Posted by themountain

What length and ID do they have ...Associated has a huge assortment, so does Proline

^^^^^^^^^ Exactly. Aren’t the Traxxas springs progressive as well? You could also stretch the spring and re-install it which will stiffen it a bit.

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by themountain

What length and ID do they have ...Associated has a huge assortment, so does Proline

You mean, you don't know the dimensions? Oh, my...lol. Just kidding. Here they are:

ID - 14mm (technically, 14.15mm)
Front - 56-57mm (2.2-2.25")
Rear - 68-69mm (2.68-2.71")

The 1mm "variance" of the lengths depends on their roasted position, and whether, or not, the 'end' of the spring is caught between the calipers.

I just wish...actually, I'm 100% certain a LOT of people would like this...that Traxxas was a bit more "transparent" in their information. I've actually found former government intelligence "employees" (yes, I actually do know one personally, and am acquainted with another through my job) who are more forthcoming with info (even if they are extremely cryptic in certain info) than Traxxas is.


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[Panther6834]

Thing is, ID isn't the only "problem"...it's also the spring rates. Since Traxxas won't release any information, it's virtually impossible to know what the rates are off the Traxxas springs. Additionally...and, this is where the problem is even bigger...Traxxas appears to "rate" things differently than everyone else. Their shock oil weights are rated differently, and their diff fluids are rated differently...so, it's somewhat safe trip assume that their springs are rated differently.

Let's assume that their Big Bore springs are rated (by Traxxas) at 4lbs. I mention that spring rate for no other reason than it's a number I see mentioned in their self-published "tuning" article. At the same time, it should be mentioned that the article never states the springs 'are' 4lbs...it uses that number to let people know how springs are rated. In comparing to another brand's 4lb-rated spring, would the Traxxas spring rate be identical, softer, or stiffer, then another brand's 4lb-rated spring?

Then there's the "progressive" part. I like that, and would still prefer to use progressive springs...but, at the same time, I could really use springs that have a slightly stiffer starting point


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[steven318is]

what about sway bars are they allowed in the class you race

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by steven318is

what about sway bars are they allowed in the class you race

Yes, they're allowed...but, good luck in finding any (that aren't worthless). For the 2WD Slash, the only ones I'm aware of are made by Hot Racing...and, from what I understand, they're garbage & useless. That's why tuning, via oil weight & stiffer springs, is my only realistic option.


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[MAC FAB]

Losi has a ton of springs as well. They are rated in lbs/in, so take your stock, white spring and see how much weight it takes to compress it one inch. You can make a linear spring work progressively by simply moving the upper mounting location to a point where when your shock is fully compressed, it is 90* (perpendicular) to the arm it is mounted to. Ahhh, I just remembered how I tested springs: I took something that was an inch shorter than my springs, put it on the digital scale. Place the spring you want to test, compress with your finger until you hit the length, read the scale. Close enough for NASA and the Space Shuttle project.

[themountain]

Originally Posted by Panther6834

...and, from what I understand, they're garbage & useless....

What can be "garbage" on a simple thing as a swaybar ???

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by themountain

What can be "garbage" on a simple thing as a swaybar ???

Well...for one thing, the front sway bar gets mounted to the bumper, which is NOT in a truly 'fixed' position. As the bumper moves, so would the sway bar. Look up photos, and you'll see what I mean. VERY poor design. Most HR stuff is good, but some is no better than Integy. The rear is just as bad, albeit for a different reason...it mounts to the shock tower, which is flexible.

With the 4x4 version (whether made by Traxxas, HR, or others), the mounting point is the chassis...solid & stable...similar to how sway bars are in other RCs. Why HR would choose to mount them to "moving" points on the 2WD, I (and others) have no clue. Imagine (on a crawler) attaching a panhard and/or steering stabilizer to the shocks (which constantly move), as opposed to the chassis (which is 'solid')...that's the best comparison I can make. That's also why tuning needs to be done through adjusting shock oil weights, and through spring rates.


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[themountain]

Originally Posted by Panther6834

Imagine (on a crawler) attaching a panhard and/or steering stabilizer to the shocks (which constantly move), as opposed to the chassis (which is 'solid')...that's the best comparison I can make.

Maybe...but completely pointless....


please enlighten me what "moves" here ??

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by themountain

Maybe...but completely pointless....





please enlighten me what "moves" there ??

To the 'pointless' remark, exactly the same as the HR sway bar is...which is what my point was. For some vehicles, adding a sway bar can be the best (or, possibly, even 'only') running option. For example of we're all familiar with how they Ryft handles workout one, and how much better or handles with one (as long as it's not the cheap/crappy plastic one made by Axial). With other vehicles, sway bars are a waste, useless, or just don't even work right. Such is the case with the 2WD Slash...so, let's FORGET about sway bars, and get back to the subject at hand - alternate spring options.


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[themountain]

WOW..if your are such a "knowldgeable" guy I have a hard time to understand why you cant figure out spring rates from different companies
Good luck with the search.

[Panther6834]

First, I'm gonna start of by saying...I'm an idiot (no, not literally...but, in this particular matter, yes...but figuratively). Second, I want to thank everyone who tried to help. To my favorite 'mountain', the sway bar idea was, in all honesty, a good one (I had also thought of it)...but, unfortunately, Traxxas doesn't make them for their 2WD vehicles. There is another (rear only), made by DRC (DragRace Concepts)...but, it only works with their rear shock tower (which is much lower, and is designed to only work with front shocks), as it's designed specifically for NPRC drag racing. But, as I said, the idea was a good idea.

Anyway...the solution has been here the whole time. In short, the answer is the opposite of the TARDIS - it's smaller on the inside.

Yeah, yeah...I know...ALL shocks are smaller on the inside, but that's not what I'm referring to. The stock Ultra shocks have a larger OD than the Big Bore shocks, but on the inside, they're smaller. The Ultra shock springs easily fit over the Big Bore shocks bodies...but, being larger in diameter, they just slide back-and-fourth on the upper & lower spring retainers, and are very likely (especially when the shocks are fully extended) to just "fall off" the retainers. Plus, they have the same (red) spring rate as the Big Bore springs.

However, if I were to swap the Big Bore's upper & lower spring retainers with the Ultra strong retainers, then the Ultra springs fit perfectly, and the bottom doesn't slide at all. I mention that because the top retainer, being 1mm larger in diameter, does slide back-and-fourth slightly...but, it's impossible for anything to "fall off"...plus it won't hinder the performance of the shocks. Unfortunately, as I mentioned, the stock Ultra springs are also of the 'red' rate (Traxxas refuses to list actual spring rates, and just designates them by colors, as follows (for those not familiar with how Traxxas "rates" their springs):

Red - stock
Orange - 20% softer than stock
Green - 10% softer than stock
Pink - 10% stiffer than stock
Blue - 20% stiffer than stock

On the plus side, before taking one of my Rustler 4x4s, and converting it into a shortened-wheelbase E-buggy Lite, I was tuning the original front Ultra shocks...so, I already have what's needed for the front (blue, as the front needed more extra stiffness them the rear). For the rear, I'll I need are rear Ultra XXL 'pink' springs. Just a quick note (again, for those not familiar with Traxxas springs), all their springs are white. The "color rate" designation is just two small 'splashes' of the designated color at one end of the spring.

So...problem solved...or, to be more accurate, mostly solved.


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[MAC FAB]

Just a couple of thoughts in the event your spring deal doesn't work. Why not move the shock one hole closer to the wheel, changing the leverage? Option B is bypass pistons, at least the way I make mine, works wonders. Block a hole or two on the top of the piston with a flexible plastic disc. I have punches so making them is easy. slows compression, keeps existing rebound. Lets you run lighter weight oil as well. You can enlarge the piston holes that are either open or covered to change the way the shocks work, getting rid of the 50/50 valving format.

[durok]

RPM RC makes a variety of Traxxas shock pistons to alter dampening, as well:

https://www.rpmrcproducts.com/produc...k-accessories/

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by durok

RPM RC makes a variety of Traxxas shock pistons to alter dampening, as well.

Honestly, I'm not a fan of RPM. I find their plastic WAY too soft.

Originally Posted by MAC FAB

Option B is bypass pistons, at least the way I make mine, works wonders. Block a hole or two on the top of the piston with a flexible plastic disc. I have punches so making them is easy. slows compression, keeps existing rebound. Lets you run lighter weight oil as well. You can enlarge the piston holes that are either open or covered to change the way the shocks work, getting rid of the 50/50 valving format.

That's something I hadn't thought about. I do run bypass pistons in my TLR 8ight-XE & 22 5.0. At the same time, I wasn't aware that anyone made them for the Traxxas Big Bore shocks. Any chance you make them for these shocks?


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[MAC FAB]

And these:

https://www.miponline.com/MIP-Bypass1

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by MAC FAB

And these:



https://www.miponline.com/MIP-Bypass1

The versions for Traxxas vehicles were discontinued years ago.


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[MAC FAB]

Got a pic of the internals?