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Old 03-08-2009, 08:22 PM   #61
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I see your point here. I hope that we can create gates that find a good median. No system is perfect. What are your thoughts on the 20 point per gate thing.
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:41 PM   #62
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With time limits, it is the best system available. Not perfect but I have seen or heard of nothing better, yet.


- David
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Old 03-09-2009, 12:02 AM   #63
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ok, that is what I thought you meant.

Progressive scoring ONLY rewards consistently if all gates get progressively more difficult. If they don't, your argument is far less valid (IMHO).

The real issue in setting up a progressive course is; since different types of rigs (MOA vs. Shafty) have different strengths, any given gate could sometimes be either progressively harder or not (depending on the rig).

I am just offering my .02 and will play by whatever rules you decide. Still, it shouldn't go un-noticed that our sanctioning body has chosen NOT to do progressive for a (or several) reasons.


- David


Dave, actually the progressive system is not based on a progressively harder course.

It rewards the competitor for finishing the course. The farther you make it the better you do. The old system gives only a -1 for clearing gate 9, but also a 1 for a reverse??? And this is where the problem starts. Clearing a gate is not worth anything. Under the old way, you just have 5 less reverses, and you are the same as clearing half a course!!!! Thats totally goofed.

I don't care if gate 2 is super tough, there is no way a guy that makes 2 gates through 2 courses and all gates through 1 course, should beat a guy who makes 9 through each course. That is flawed scoring.
RCC only goes by the system because its what origionally was used. NOT becuse it was the best. It just was thought of first.

The old system is based on a course where you complete ALL the gates. When courses are built where people do not finish, the old system doesn't work




However, I am also totally fine with what you guys come up with. I am just going to make the score sheets(with corys approval) with whatever you fellows feel is right. Just explaining why we have used the progressive system.

I will adapt and over come

Last edited by holycaveman; 03-09-2009 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 03-09-2009, 12:04 AM   #64
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I'll be the judge of that.

Alright, I was alittle proud of my sheets man.

Leave the professional out, I will do my best, hows that
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Old 03-09-2009, 05:18 AM   #65
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Good morning, Still tied...Coin flip.... Heads/ Progressive.........Heads
That was not in real time! there is no way I could do that and type.
It was a real scouts honor coin flip though. And only 1 flip. I didnt go best of till it went to my favor.


Now thats out of the way I don't want to vary from standards at every turn so I believe it best to follow 20pt/ Gate rule and the rest if no one objects. Tme limits to be set by course maker.
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Old 03-09-2009, 10:28 AM   #66
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Dave, actually the progressive system is not based on a progressively harder course.

It rewards the competitor for finishing the course. The farther you make it the better you do. The old system gives only a -1 for clearing gate 9, but also a 1 for a reverse??? And this is where the problem starts. Clearing a gate is not worth anything. Under the old way, you just have 5 less reverses, and you are the same as clearing half a course!!!! Thats totally goofed.

I don't care if gate 2 is super tough, there is no way a guy that makes 2 gates through 2 courses and all gates through 1 course, should beat a guy who makes 9 through each course. That is flawed scoring.
RCC only goes by the system because its what origionally was used. NOT becuse it was the best. It just was thought of first.

The old system is based on a course where you complete ALL the gates. When courses are built where people do not finish, the old system doesn't work




However, I am also totally fine with what you guys come up with. I am just going to make the score sheets(with corys approval) with whatever you fellows feel is right. Just explaining why we have used the progressive system.

I will adapt and over come
Interesting, that is how your "progressive" system was explained to me the first time I went there.


- David
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Old 03-09-2009, 10:32 AM   #67
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Interesting, that is how your "progressive" system was explained to me the first time I went there.


- David

By your comments I didn't think you understood. I may have been mistaken. Wasn't arguing, just trying to explain them.
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Old 03-09-2009, 11:04 AM   #68
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uncle. my brain hurts.


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Old 03-09-2009, 11:21 AM   #69
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Well here is my 2cents.

2 guys run 1 course,
Guy #1 makes it through 8 gates guy #2 only makes it through 3 gates. Guess what......... Guy #1 got 8 points knocked off his score. Thats 5 more points he gets knocked off his total. Why?, because he went farther on the course than guy #2.

All you are doing with the progressive point system is making the numbers that get subtracted at the end of the run larger.

With the progressive system:

Driver #1 his score is a 4.
Driver #2 has a 34.


With the official system:

Driver #1 has a 32.
Driver #2 has a 37.

Now look at those...... can you tell me what the heck happened on that course by looking at the numbers for the progressive? Without pen and paper?

The official way.... no pen and paper required.

We are trying to get as many new people involved as possible right.......?

So why should we teach these new guys the Prog. system and then have them be lost on whats goin on when they attend another comp that uses the official scoring method?

With all of that being said, you kids do the scoring however you want.
Just dont ask me to help out with the scoring.


K.I.S.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 03-09-2009, 03:09 PM   #70
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Well here is my 2cents.

2 guys run 1 course,
Guy #1 makes it through 8 gates guy #2 only makes it through 3 gates. Guess what......... Guy #1 got 8 points knocked off his score. Thats 5 more points he gets knocked off his total. Why?, because he went farther on the course than guy #2.

All you are doing with the progressive point system is making the numbers that get subtracted at the end of the run larger.

With the progressive system:

Driver #1 his score is a 4.
Driver #2 has a 34.


With the official system:

Driver #1 has a 32.
Driver #2 has a 37.

Now look at those...... can you tell me what the heck happened on that course by looking at the numbers for the progressive? Without pen and paper?

The official way.... no pen and paper required.

We are trying to get as many new people involved as possible right.......?

So why should we teach these new guys the Prog. system and then have them be lost on whats goin on when they attend another comp that uses the official scoring method?

With all of that being said, you kids do the scoring however you want.
Just dont ask me to help out with the scoring.


K.I.S.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Case closed fellows. you see my point.

This is not rocket science.

No offense Josh, but since when is help only involved if things go your way? Guys are trying to make this work, people have differnent views. Simple

To much drama for me fellows there are other games that are far less work and more fun.


Cancel my vote, it obviously does not matter.

Now no coin toss needed, back to old scoring.

The crawler drama is over, the world again rests.
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Old 03-09-2009, 03:55 PM   #71
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The time for voting arguing and changes was last week. The only difference Josh sees is the need for pen and paper lucky for us all I can handle bringing some. I have spent too much time on this and am moving on.

This is just for fun so lets not dwell.
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Old 03-09-2009, 04:24 PM   #72
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No offense Josh, but since when is help only involved if things go your way?

Really?........... out of everything I said that is what you took from it.

Come on Tom, when have I not helped.......

Just like at the last comp I halped judge a few runs, but what did I say right before I started? "I will mark the points down but someone else can add the crap up".

K.I.S.S.
Keep It Simple Stupid.............

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Old 03-09-2009, 04:39 PM   #73
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This is not a big deal fellas.
I'm sure it was a simple misunderstansing.
I kinda thought the same at first but you say otherwise and thats good enough for me.

I think some small things get lost communicating this way.

I know we are all itching to get out and do this so lets focus on moving forward.

I'm thinking Tom's, Griggs, Or Rob,s spot in Lancaster for the first date.
All 3 have a option if we get rain

Any opinions........
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Old 03-09-2009, 06:16 PM   #74
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I would love to check out the spot by Rob. From the videos he has posted it looks like a killer location.
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Old 03-09-2009, 07:20 PM   #75
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Rob's is fine by me.
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Old 03-09-2009, 07:51 PM   #76
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Nooby here and my 2cents, I think first of all it's great we are even doing what we are doing. Getting together at different courses and having fun. Even more so that no one will have any advantages over anybody else is great. Point system, well lets pick one and go with it and see how it works, nothing is set in stone, things can always be changed for the years to come, but I feel we all need to thank Bob for doing what he has done to start with. Let's start this year have fun and sit down at the end of the year, drink a few adult beverages and talk about things that need changed for the next year. It's not like we are going for a million $$$ or a chance to qualify for the nationals. Lets do what this made to do HAVE FUN. Bob, have truck will travel let me know where and when, hope to have everything done sometime so I will be there, and if Corey needs help keeping score I will help.
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Old 03-09-2009, 07:51 PM   #77
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Ok that works for me{Rob's place}. It should have good overhead coverage just in case.
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Old 03-09-2009, 08:15 PM   #78
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March 28
Cenci Lake Park, Lancaster Ohio
AKA Rob's spot in Lancaster
This will be the first stop for the Central Ohio Spring/Summer Point Series. The cost to compete will be $5. Driver's meeting will be at 9:50 AM and the 2.2 comp will begin at 10.
We will be using the progressive point system. Beyond that we will be using standard USRCCA rules: http://usrcca.com/rules2008.pdf

Please use this link for directions: http://rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128681 There is a map link below the pics.

Please let me know if there are any questions and I will do my best.
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Old 03-09-2009, 08:20 PM   #79
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I would like to get the rest of the schedule hammered out in the next few days so we can get a few flyers to the hobby stores.

I am open to any input........Thats not what I mean... uh
All thoughts are welcome. That sounds better
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Old 03-09-2009, 09:06 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Rizzo View Post
March 28
Cenci Lake Park, Lancaster Ohio
AKA Rob's spot in Lancaster
This will be the first stop for the Central Ohio Spring/Summer Point Series. The cost to compete will be $5. Driver's meeting will be at 9:50 AM and the 2.2 comp will begin at 10.
We will be using the progressive point system. Beyond that we will be using standard USRCCA rules: http://usrcca.com/rules2008.pdf

Please use this link for directions: http://rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128681 There is a map link below the pics.

Please let me know if there are any questions and I will do my best.
Does anyone besides myself want to check this place out before the 28th?

Or should we just wing it and you trust my judgment on this ?

Im fine with it but, want to be sure others are happy since we want to have F.U.N.
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