2014 Nationals & Season Class Information

[ROWDY RACING]

Originally Posted by Zarizi Tech

Yeah, but let's not count off any other class because of it.

NO other classes are getting dropped because of trail comp. Other classes will be dropped for lack of participation. If people want to save 1.9 and super they have the chance to save them by trying to grow the number of participants and vendor support for them. Look at it like this when a store stops selling certain products they stop carrying them and start carrying what sells. Share your rig with someone, that instantly doubles the number of drivers and if they really enjoy it they may build their own.

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by cboggs

Trail class is stupid. If you guys want to drive a scale truck go to a scale comp or Scale Nationals, it has no place in the comp crawler Nationals. Unless I see more specifics on what this Trail class is, which sounds like a SCX10 car, leave it to the scale comps.

Originally Posted by cboggs

I should have worded it a bit differently, I just don't want the trail class to be anything scale. If it is a comp crawler built with say a rail chassis and scale points don't come into play than thats fine, otherwise I stand behind my opinion that scale rules belong in a scale comp. I'll be waiting to see what the rules of this Trail class is going to be and hope it follows in line with a comp crawler. I just hate to hear news of killing off comp classes. You can bet there won't be 25+ Supers, never has been that many, so say good by to that class. Just make sure its replaced by something worthy of what is being axed and stays as some sort of comp crawler and not a scaler. Chilling out now.

Yeah STUPID was a bit strong

Let me try to address some of your concerns.

1) Trail Class scoring will be the same as all the other USRCCA recognized classes. There may be a need for longer time limits, less gates, or larger maximum point limits, but no Scale points.

2) Your history is a little off.
SUPER CLASS 35x Super Drivers at 2010 Nationals (Disney), 30x Super Drivers at 2011 Nationals (Vegas) 29x Super drivers a 2012 Nationals (LRC), and Dropped to 19x Super Drivers at 2013 Nationals(Prescott) 45% less over last 4 years.

1.9 CLASS 55x 1.9 Drivers at 2010 Nationals (Disney), 48x 1.9 Drivers at 2011 Nationals (Vegas), 34x 1.9 drivers a 2012 Nationals (LRC), and 34x 1.9 Drivers at 2013 Nationals(Prescott)
39% less over last 4 years.

2.2sCLASS 48x 2.2s drivers a 2012 Nationals (LRC), and 75x 2.2s Drivers at 2013 Nationals(Prescott)
64% increase in 2 years.

3)A lot of people theorize that the only reason anyone drivers 1.9 and Super is because they claim they are REQUIRED classes. A lot of people take the same postilion as you. The USRCCA has made the decision to let the drivers decide what classes they want run by happens by seeing who actually shows up.

4) The decisions to drop a class won't be a black or white type decision, For example if we have 23x Supers, 26x 1.9s and 30x Trail Class we will probably keep all 3 classes.
If we have 45x Trail Class, 24x 1.9s, and 11x Supers then that will have a different result.
Trail Class will be given 1x year to ramp up, and 2015 it will be held to the same standards.

5)Trail Class is blend of Scale and Comp type vehicles. Its likely 90% of the drivers reading this already have a truck that can be used in this class, and its not currently one of your comp rigs. Its also likely one of your offroad RC buddies that's not currently crawling also has a truck that fits in this class as well.

6) RWYB (Run What You Brung) is an popular idea that was floated by, but that was quickly nixed because when you think about....most of the classes were RWYB at some point and they ALL quickly became highly specialized comp rigs. I am not saying this was a bad thing.....I am just saying thats why we didn't just create a "SIMPLE" RWYB class.

[Erik D_lux]

Doing our RWYB class here I quickly realized that new people are great but youre really fishing for that guy who wants to cross over into hard core comp. Most of the RWYB guys that came out were really more interested in a G6 sort of deal and you could tell they had no interest in comp crawling.

YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE YOUR MORAL DOES NOT GO DOWN WITH THE QUALITY GUYS THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE, along with trying to pull in new guys. I would say its even more important to cater to the heart and soul of crawling before new people. This will be a tough balance but is important to understand.

IMO, even mentioning taking away classes just drove moral even deeper down.

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by Erik D_lux

IMO, even mentioning taking away classes just drove moral even deeper down.

At what point should we START to talk about it?

When we have 100+ 2.2 P and 2.2s, and a dozen drivers left in 1.9 and Super?

We had exactly 11 guys going for the Over-All in 2013 (16 in 2012, 18 in 2011 and 24 in 2010)

I am trying to give guys a chance to step up now, and not wait until nobody shows up on 1.9 and Super at Nationals.

[Erik D_lux]

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

At what point should we START to talk about it?

When you can afford to lose people.

If there are other reasons you would like to drop it, such as cost of trophies or time to setup, maybe we could address those issues individually?

Say for example that if there are not 25 drivers then it's bogging down the cost for the rest of the classes so we can still do them but no trophies? Just an example but I know this community is so helpful that people who enjoy the class will pull extra weight to make it happen.

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by Erik D_lux

When you can afford to lose people.

If there are other reasons you would like to drop it, such as cost of trophies or time to setup, maybe we could address those issues individually?

Say for example that if there are not 25 drivers then it's bogging down the cost for the rest of the classes so we can still do them but no trophies? Just an example but I know this community is so helpful that people who enjoy the class will pull extra weight to make it happen.

You have made a huge jump from declining driver interest to class profitability. I didn't say the class wouldn't be run at all I said it would be dropped from the Over All Championships

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

Minimum Class Levels Minimum Class levels are set to 25 drivers. If less than 25 Drivers sign up form the pick one group it will be dropped from the Over All Championship at Nationals with the possibility of being permanently dropped from National Competition. (Exception is Trail Class in 2014)

with the possibility of it being permanently dropped. I later described scenarios that might lead to the class being continued or permanently dropped.

You also described a scenario that is also a possibility for 1.9 and Super to continue for a very long time.

For example Erin stepped and held a Scale event that was held along side this years Nationals. He had his own sponsor, prizes and awards.

If I were you I stop worrying about the class being dropped, and more time being part of the drivers who make this discussion irelavent. I would love to have the PROBLEM of scheduling 5 thriving classes (Super, 1.9, 2.2P, 2.2S and Trail) We are NOT trying to get rid of any classes....we are are however trying to be proactive and see what drivers want to run.

Under the same conditions and during the same time period 2.2s doubled its attendance while 1.9 and Super shrank about 40% to me thats the drivers speaking load and clear.

If Trail Class does the same thing then we will look like geniuses, and if its stagnate like 1.9 and Super then we will try something else.


BTW way you have my blessing to step up and help to make any class succeed.

[SkaldidDog]

Originally Posted by Erik D_lux

Doing our RWYB class here I quickly realized that new people are great but youre really fishing for that guy who wants to cross over into hard core comp. Most of the RWYB guys that came out were really more interested in a G6 sort of deal and you could tell they had no interest in comp crawling.

YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE YOUR MORAL DOES NOT GO DOWN WITH THE QUALITY GUYS THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE, along with trying to pull in new guys. I would say its even more important to cater to the heart and soul of crawling before new people. This will be a tough balance but is important to understand.

IMO, even mentioning taking away classes just drove moral even deeper down.

Spot on Erik, especially the part I underlined in your quote. But is that what the USRCCA is Fish-ing for? I don't know.

When all of these conversations started (even last year pre 2.2S class) I also thought the point was to help drivers transition from scale-ish crawling to hardcore comp crawling (HCC). Introducing a scale-ish class this year does not do this even if it does promote interest in scale-ish crawling. This new class creates one more scale option for novices, however, they will still hit the psychological and financial wall of doing well in HCC without a drivers comp class.
Scale crawling is not on the endangered list and is self perpetuating at this point. Traxxas is dipping its toes in. HCC is contracting fast for many reasons. If the future of the USRCCA lies in scale-ish crawling then this new class is progress. If the USRCCA sees HCC as core to its future then this new class has/will use organizer and contestant resources without facilitating driver transition to HCC. This may actually hurt HCC. Time will tell. A grass roots effort to increase RC crawling interest is good for general crawlers, RCC and now maybe USRCCA because there is a lot of excitement and advertising/revenue $ in scale to scale-ish crawling. HCC however is a wonderful cult that totally lacks this advertising/revenue appeal (ask VP and Axial). With Ultra4 (RC and 1:1) taking off maybe we can hope for some trickle down to HCC as well.

This year scale ish crawling may take a back seat to HCC at Nats and other big events. With the inertia of scale ish crawling and Ultra4 and the decline of HCC I can see these roles reversing soon. But that may be good for RCC and the USRCCA. It depends on the long-term focus of these two businesses.

Exciting times for sure. Hardcore Competition Crawling will always be Cult Crawling to me. And cults rarely maintain mainstream focus for long. But they do thrive in the shadows in the hearts of the passionate to surface another day.

Cult Crawlers! Google that. My new tag line.

J

[ROWDY RACING]

The hope is that Trail class will attract interest in traditional comp crawling by introducing people to comp crawling that may otherwise never see it.

[SkaldidDog]

Originally Posted by ROWDY RACING

The hope is that Trail class will attract interest in traditional comp crawling by introducing people to comp crawling that may otherwise never see it.

I'm confused. Am I reading the above correctly. So folks are going to attend an event for trail class to see non-traditional comp crawling (hardcore comp crawling?) in the hopes that they take interest in " traditional" comp crawling. Is the "it" at the end of your quote referring to traditional or non-traditional crawling?

Is this like taking a curious racing newb to an F1 race hoping he takes an interest in NASCAR?

What is "traditional" comp crawling?

Thanks Rowdy.

J

[ROWDY RACING]

Originally Posted by SkaldidDog

I'm confused. Am I reading the above correctly. So folks are going to attend an event for trail class to see non-traditional comp crawling (hardcore comp crawling?) in the hopes that they take interest in " traditional" comp crawling. Is the "it" at the end of your quote referring to traditional or non-traditional crawling?

Is this like taking a curious racing newb to an F1 race hoping he takes an interest in NASCAR?

What is "traditional" comp crawling?

Thanks Rowdy.

J

Traditional comp being 2.2p, 2.2s, 1.9, super the classes we love and want to grow.

People see wraiths at hobbytown, and never know what a berg is unless they come on here or see one in the wild.

[SkaldidDog]

Originally Posted by ROWDY RACING

Traditional comp being 2.2p, 2.2s, 1.9, super the classes we love and want to grow.

People see wraiths at hobbytown, and never know what a berg is unless they come on here or see one in the wild.

Then when they do see one they'll crap themselves over how intimidating and difficult pro looks vs what their skills and their Wraith can do. What do we do to help them not become totally demoralized at their first comp when they get killed by pro drivers with pro rigs? Pro drivers make comps challenging, not necessarily pro rigs, hence the nice transition via novice drivers vs novice drivers using pro rigs.

Ok I'm done beating my dead horse. Y'all get my point. Thanks Rowdy.

J

[ROWDY RACING]

Originally Posted by SkaldidDog

Then when they do see one they'll crap themselves over how intimidating and difficult pro looks vs what their skills and their Wraith can do. What do we do to help them not become totally demoralized at their first comp when they get killed by pro drivers with pro rigs? Pro drivers make comps challenging, not necessarily pro rigs, hence the nice transition via novice drivers vs novice drivers using pro rigs.

Ok I'm done beating my dead horse. Y'all get my point. Thanks Rowdy.

J

I get your point whats your solution?

Most people will shit when they see comp but not everyone, even the champ was a noob once.

[SkaldidDog]

Originally Posted by ROWDY RACING

I get your point whats your solution?

Most people will shit when they see comp but not everyone, even the champ was a noob once.

Not everyone will crap, true that.

Solution: Drivers Novice Class

They get in line with the pros, drive the same courses, follow the same rules and their scores are tabulated vs other novice drivers. Simple and effective. Now new rules or regs. Then they'll get pumped when they beat some pros! It's simple side-by-side opportunity to build confidence and experience in new pro class drivers. The perfect training ground for the next generation of pro comp drivers.

J

[ROWDY RACING]

Originally Posted by SkaldidDog

Not everyone will crap, true that.

Solution: Drivers Novice Class

They get in line with the pros, drive the same courses, follow the same rules and their scores are tabulated vs other novice drivers. Simple and effective. Now new rules or regs. Then they'll get pumped when they beat some pros! It's simple side-by-side opportunity to build confidence and experience in new pro class drivers. The perfect training ground for the next generation of pro comp drivers.

J

What seperates novice from pros? Im no novice but certainly not a pro.

And this does nothing for the club level, most clubs are not big enough to split pro and novice drivers.

[ROWDY RACING]

Also would'nt that just split the drivers we already have bringing in no new drivers?

[SkaldidDog]

Originally Posted by ROWDY RACING

What seperates novice from pros? Im no novice but certainly not a pro.

Define Pro and all others are novice. Meet a requirement below for a given class and the next year you are required to drive pro for that class. Maybe drop the by class part. Anyone can chose to drive pro even if they don't meet these requirements. Pro status temporally defined by the crawling year that ends immediately after Nationals.

You are a Pro driver by class if:

Top 25 finish at any National Qualifying event or Nats in previous 5 years (Pro Class).
Top 5 finish at any State or Regional Championship in previous 5 years (Pro Class).
Top 5 finish at any National Qualifying event or Nats in previous year (Novice Class)
Winner of any State or Regional Championship in the the previous year (Novice Class).

Once you are tagged as Pro, you only go back to Novice after 5 years of not driving at any of National, State or Regional event.

Yes, this system forces drivers up. They may quit when they go pro, they may not just like you said.

J

[ROWDY RACING]

Originally Posted by SkaldidDog

Define Pro and all others are novice. Meet a requirement below for a given class and the next year you are required to drive pro for that class. Maybe drop the by class part. Anyone can chose to drive pro even if they don't meet these requirements. Pro status temporally defined by the crawling year that ends immediately after Nationals.

You are a Pro driver by class if:

Top 25 finish at any National Qualifying event or Nats in previous 5 years (Pro Class).
Top 5 finish at any State or Regional Championship in previous 5 years (Pro Class).
Top 5 finish at any National Qualifying event or Nats in previous year (Novice Class)
Winner of any State or Regional Championship in the the previous year (Novice Class).

Once you are tagged as Pro, you only go back to Novice after 5 years of not driving at any of National, State or Regional event.

Yes, this system forces drivers up. They may quit when they go pro, they may not just like you said.

J

Originally Posted by ROWDY RACING

Also would'nt that just split the drivers we already have bringing in no new drivers?

???

[cboggs]

So why are we not talking about bringing in the people that buy the stock Axial Ridgecrest, Deadbolt, Losi Night Crawler, etc.? From what we have up here the guy that buys a scale car will go to the scale comps, which is where he should go. I have nothing against scalers, they are both fun to drive and comp. I would rather have a stock class being added than another high dollar, highly customized trail class that will intimidate the newcomer to not come to another comp until he has every upgrade to his car. A stock class could have more limitations to keep an even playing field for the newcomer and veteran, making this more of a drivers class like the 1.9's basically are. No transmission or chassis changes (must run what came from the factory), only allow your basic parts to be upgraded for strength (no XR mod to the axles), and make the electronics upgradable to whatever the user wants. This would be more inline with what a current comp crawler is and making it affordable to anyone to come out and play at a comp.

[ROWDY RACING]

Originally Posted by cboggs

So why are we not talking about bringing in the people that buy the stock Axial Ridgecrest, Deadbolt, Losi Night Crawler, etc.? From what we have up here the guy that buys a scale car will go to the scale comps, which is where he should go. I have nothing against scalers, they are both fun to drive and comp. I would rather have a stock class being added than another high dollar, highly customized trail class that will intimidate the newcomer to not come to another comp until he has every upgrade to his car. A stock class could have more limitations to keep an even playing field for the newcomer and veteran, making this more of a drivers class like the 1.9's basically are. No transmission or chassis changes (must run what came from the factory), only allow your basic parts to be upgraded for strength (no XR mod to the axles), and make the electronics upgradable to whatever the user wants. This would be more inline with what a current comp crawler is and making it affordable to anyone to come out and play at a comp.

95% of what you just said is included in the trail comp class including the ridgecrest and deadbolt. I really think you will chill once the rules are released, others will find more to question.

[SkaldidDog]

Originally Posted by ROWDY RACING

???

This won't split anything. Define split.

J