2015 Worlds JUDGES AND COURSE SETTERS

[Krawler Kev]

Originally Posted by BC-Brian

I have no problem judging, I do it for my own club and I do it when I go to large events (Nats/Regionals). I volunteered to split the duties judging a course but was told that that would not be consistent. I am hesitant to sign up to be the SOLE judge running a course all day because I feel I will be stuck there all day. This seems to be different than other years where there were 2-3 judges per course so they could share duty, go run a course, take a bathroom break, etc. It is the same concern I have with team format because that can lead to one or two guys in the team doing all the work while the others vanish for hours on end.

I hope we can figure out a way to make this go down without burning out the handful of people that volunteer... Maybe team format is the way to do it... Perhaps you can incentivise the team members to do all pitch in by awarding the "best" teammate on each team (decided by captain or vote) something cool to win.

Good post Brian. I have been to Worlds in your neck of the woods and you stepped up to the plate BIG time. It was greatly appreciated along with the efforts of the Boston Crawlers. It just seems like the same people are always stepping up.

I also do not want to be the sole judge all day on a course. By volunteering, I was assuming that there would be two or three judges per course and you could have a small break when required.

Another thought, similar to BOTW, is run morning courses and afternoon courses (we ran 4 in the morning and 4 in the afternoon for a total of 8 courses.........8 courses). There were morning judges and a different crew of judges for the afternoon. Keep in mind that the afternoon courses were new courses.

[cboggs]

To be honest my bad back cant last standing around judging for an entire day, if I did judge then I'd be on pain killers by the time it was my turn to go drive (which might be a good thing, lol). That's my personal reason anyway, if it was split into shifts it might be more tempting for most, but then you lose the consistency of judging. Im happy to help any other way I can.

[House]

Man, totally bummed I can't make this event.
You know I would help out wherever I could...
Hope to see you guys in November!

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by BC-Brian

Maybe team format is the way to do it... Perhaps you can incentivise the team members to do all pitch in by awarding the "best" teammate on each team (decided by captain or vote) something cool to win.

Its seemed the Team Concept was discarded for some reason. I have no intention of being stuck alone on a course.judging. That dosn't mean I won't help out. It was 104 in Logandale today. If the temperatures in September are below 90 we will be very fortunate. If anyone thinks they will get consistent judging by having someone bake for 3-4 hours is foolish and dangerous. If thats the plan there needs to be shade and cool water on every course so between drivers judges can cool off.

Instead of bar codes, and other foolishness to make scoring easier for a 50 man comp when we have proven methods that work for 100+ driver comps. Someone should spend some time figuring a way to be tracking and rewarding judges that pull their weight in team judging format.

No judging format yields perfect results because we are humans. Calls we be missed no matter what. Tried judges are just as inconsistent as different groups of judges. At least with team format all the judges are familiar with the course and know its idiosyncrasies.

I am more than happy to be a course manager ot team captain. IMO teams should be a MINIMUM OF 8.

[Del Monte]

I'll judge and build if needed. It's just as hot here as it is in Logandale, so I'm not too worried

[JohnRobHolmes]

The team format has not been discarded (thread hidden to avoid confusion for now), but because of the points brought up and driver preference we will certainly do our best to set up a more traditional judging style . Once we find how far traditional judging can take us, team judging is easily implemented if needed. Half day rotating judges may be the best compromise of consistency, as John's point of how difficult it is after 3 hours straight is important to consider.


Bar codes and foolishness huh? Sounds like you just volunteered to keep score all day on a spreadsheet or track judges and rewards for us! Must I remind you of how long I've waited for scores to be tallied at your own events? The choice between cramming data entry at the end or having to do it all day sucks both ways. Just how many times have we seen finals stretch far past sunset because of the hour or longer it took for two or three people to painfully tally scores after courses closed? The only thing that has been proven, is that the method of score entry into a spreadsheet is an easy area for trimming time and reducing mistakes. I'm lazy when something can be automated so you can rest assured it will be a useful tool for any event to have. No mouse, no scrolling, no searching or lookup tables, no accidental wrong column or line entry. The database and interface is already made, it saves my business hours of labor each week. So unless you just volunteered to sit at a computer all day, your getting a barcode mister!



Water and food for long haul judges should be considered a given. Substantial shade will be a trickier matter, as I don't have a spare half grand for pop ups. But maybe some locals could loan them out for the weekend?

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

Must I remind you of how long I've waited for scores to be tallied at your own events? The choice between cramming data entry at the end or having to do it all day sucks both ways. Just how many times have we seen finals stretch far past sunset because of the hour or longer it took for two or three people to painfully tally scores after courses closed? The only thing that has been proven, is that the method of score entry into a spreadsheet is an easy area for trimming time and reducing mistakes. I'm lazy when something can be automated so you can rest assured it will be a useful tool for any event to have. No mouse, no scrolling, no searching or lookup tables, no accidental wrong column or line entry. The database and interface is already made, it saves my business hours of labor each week. So unless you just volunteered to sit at a computer all day, your getting a barcode mister!

Not sure what events your talking about, but the last 3 Nationals we had results live via Google doc with in minutes of the last driver running and the score sheets being turned in we had Finals sorted and set.
Destoyer, RCBros, and BC Paints collected scores through out the day. Must be another event you attended that took hours to get results, but it wasn't one of mine

[JohnRobHolmes]

I must be remembering an east coast championship, but late running scores have always been problematic. Sure, three people managing scores all day sounds like a great way to handle it. Since you aren't jumping to tally scores all day for me I can only assume your not that fond of staring at a spreadsheet either, so I'll be using our system that takes 15 seconds per driver so those three folks can do something fun the other 95% of the day. Don't know why you are micromanaging this aspect other than to point out that we need to attract more judges in the same breath.

[Fishmaxx]

First off I have no problem entering scores. Happy to do in fact. Secondly ECC has NEVER ran Finals in the dark either. Last but not least it was 1x score keeper per event.
2014 = BC Paints
2013 = RCBros
2012 = Destroyer
All other dates = Badger

I guess I should have chosen different words, but as a driver spending $10000's to come this event I would like to have an idea of the number of courses and classes I can run (judge dependent) As someone who has tried many times to attract judges and scorekeepers to work at his events. Finding scorekeeper was never a problem usually had at least 2 or 3 volunteers. Finding 18 judges has always proven difficult.

Realistically the Team concept is the most likely to produce enough judges to SAFELY and efficiently get at least 6 courses. It also considers the heat and number of drivers. If the team concept is to be used I would like to see some thought put into addressing some its deficiencies that popped up during its use at previous events.

I am sure the barcode system will work flawlessly, so let's get back to figuring out how to judge this thing.

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by Del Monte

It's just as hot here as it is in Logandale, so I'm not too worried

Just making a wild assumption, but you are probably not the typical physical status of the average rc rock crawler.

I am also not worried about the heat since I am currently building decks and retaining wall in the Atl heat and humidity. Yesterday was 96 with a heat index over 100.

I have seen first hand what happens to guys not acclimated to the climate, and I am worried about the guys on the other end of physical stature.

The last time National was in Vegas I think we were off the mountain and in the AC by 2:00

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

Substantial shade will be a trickier matter, as I don't have a spare half grand for pop ups. But maybe some locals could loan them out for the weekend?

Getting towards the end of season, and there are some good deals. Academy Sports had them for $49 and Walmat $69 the last time I was in the stores.

Academy Sports + Outdoors™ Easy Shade 10' x 10' Pop-Up Canopy | Academy

[Jslick]

ECC never ran in the dark. That was Nationals when it was at Little Rock. I remember the lights.

[winnerone23]

Not many will remember it.. But.. A finals course(sporty I believe) was ran in the dark at ECC this year.

[Erik D_lux]

Not only a train wreck but the whole subject is also derailed. They call that two birds with one stone...

[Erik D_lux]

How about talking about what CAN be done?

Seems to me, the only real idea we have is team format. Looks like we do have plenty of people willing to help set up courses so we are good there.

Anybody have any ideas about what can be done other than that? If not, seems like it is what it is, lets get the team format deal going.

[Jslick]

Team format is a viable method. Team captains need to run a tight ship to keep things moving along. I think we should list the things that need to be addressed so things run smoothly.

[un-bolt]

At "BIG". 42 drivers with start at 9.30AM and finnish 7 courses at 17.00PM. This weekend.

They jused group mode. 7 groups.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Erik D_lux]

I guess we could consider another method like we ran at the AZ shootout. I think other than having 100% trust in others it worked out really good.

It was as simple as it could get. We ran in whatever groups we wanted, with whomever we wanted and we all just judged ourselves within that group. The next group came along and did the same.

One thing I can see that is great about this way is that there is no real organizing, no real accountability. It just boils down to taking care of yourselves.

[un-bolt]

I will also volunteer as judge if needed!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tapped-out]

Team judging, I think guys in a group should have times slots they need to be on course to judge. Over lapping new judge with previous judge to shadow previous judge to keep course consistent in score keeping.
If I understand team judging ea person (if we have 50 competitors) only judges 5 drivers in a perfect scenario.