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Thread: Sneak Peek - Bully 2 Knuckles for high angle Kyosho universals - input wanted

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Old 07-16-2014, 06:36 PM   #1
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Exclamation Sneak Peek - Bully 2 Knuckles for high angle Kyosho universals - input wanted

High strength, high angle universals are one of the most lacking items on the awesome Bully 2 comp axles. I have been working on these knuckles to accept Kyosho high angle universals. These also incorporate 16mm bearings for the ultimate in strength and durability. The steering arms are zero Ackerman and are 5mm longer than the short stock arms.

I started off with a simple design but after cutting some and lots of thinking I have revised the design with some added features. The first version was basic like the stock knuckle and supported B2 knuckle weights. On the second version I added Toyota style steering stops and support for rcbros knuckle weights. I think both of these features will be well received.

I'm looking for input from the masses about anything you don't like, what you do like, and any features you would like to see added or removed.

These are the shafts with zero mods done to increase the working angle. They really have plenty of working angle stock to drive the tire into your links. You can see that the inner shaft comes from the factory clearanced for greater angles.

Click the image to open in full size.

This was the first version.

Click the image to open in full size.

This is the second version with the Toyota steering stops and rcbros weight holders.

Click the image to open in full size.

The price on these will be VERY competitive. I think you guys will be quite pleased!

Last edited by Calderwood; 07-16-2014 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 07-16-2014, 07:11 PM   #2
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second version. more options.
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Old 07-16-2014, 07:34 PM   #3
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Default Re: Sneak Peek - Bully 2 Knuckles for high angle Kyosho universals - input wanted

Same knuckle weight pattern as the B2 knuckles please (I really like my KW setup).

Can proper bearings be found to put those shafts into B2 knuckles?

Last edited by ROWDY RACING; 07-16-2014 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 07-17-2014, 12:41 AM   #4
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Default Re: Sneak Peek - Bully 2 Knuckles for high angle Kyosho universals - input wanted

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Originally Posted by nappahdog View Post
second version. more options.
Thanks for the input.

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Originally Posted by ROWDY RACING View Post
Same knuckle weight pattern as the B2 knuckles please (I really like my KW setup).

Can proper bearings be found to put those shafts into B2 knuckles?
You can't run 1/8 scale shafts with stock knuckles because the distance from the bearing to the kingpin is less than the distance of the bearing to the universal.

Either version accepts b2 weights but you won't be able to run the first weight that wraps around the knuckle since these are bigger than the stock knuckle. In addition to b2 weights and rcbros weights I have been working on cast tungsten composite weights.
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Old 07-17-2014, 05:49 AM   #5
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Default Re: Sneak Peek - Bully 2 Knuckles for high angle Kyosho universals - input wanted

A little birdy told me you might be working on parts for the bully2 axles. Im glad thats happening. We need the aftermarket to supports these axles!

What are you thinking for materials?
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Old 07-17-2014, 07:46 AM   #6
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Default Re: Sneak Peek - Bully 2 Knuckles for high angle Kyosho universals - input wanted

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A little birdy told me you might be working on parts for the bully2 axles. Im glad thats happening. We need the aftermarket to supports these axles!

What are you thinking for materials?
This is just the beginning for these axles. I'm really excited about the Bully 2s.

The plates will be autoclaved carbon fiber. The body will be black machine grade ABS with heli-coil inserts. I'm planing on offering brass bodies if there is enough interest. I need feedback from all of you on what you want. I'm flexible and want to offer everyone the product that they want, not just what I want.
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Old 07-17-2014, 07:54 AM   #7
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Default Re: Sneak Peek - Bully 2 Knuckles for high angle Kyosho universals - input wanted

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This is just the beginning for these axles. I'm really excited about the Bully 2s.

The plates will be autoclaved carbon fiber. The body will be black machine grade ABS with heli-coil inserts. I'm planing on offering brass bodies if there is enough interest. I need feedback from all of you on what you want. I'm flexible and want to offer everyone the product that they want, not just what I want.
No concern using ABS in that application? The Unis (when pushed to the limit) may expose weakness in a plastic material and wallow out the bearing seats and or just self destruct (thinking over some time). I think aluminum with brass as an option for the body of the knuckle would be a safer bet. I guess it's worth a test though

Last edited by TURBOFEST; 07-17-2014 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 07-17-2014, 08:26 AM   #8
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I prefer the first one now. I like how cheap rc4wd weights are.
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Old 07-17-2014, 08:37 AM   #9
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Default Re: Sneak Peek - Bully 2 Knuckles for high angle Kyosho universals - input wanted

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Originally Posted by TURBOFEST View Post
No concern using ABS in that application? The Unis (when pushed to the limit) may expose weakness in a plastic material and wallow out the bearing seats and or just self destruct (thinking over some time). I think aluminum with brass as an option for the body of the knuckle would be a safer bet. I guess it's work a test though
I don't see any issue with ABS. As always though, abusive testing will verify. Delrin knuckles are proven and abs has similar mechanical properties except for ABS having much greater impact resistance than delrin.
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I prefer the first one now. I like how cheap rc4wd weights are.
Both are machined with the b2 weight pattern.
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Old 07-17-2014, 08:37 AM   #10
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Default Re: Sneak Peek - Bully 2 Knuckles for high angle Kyosho universals - input wanted

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Originally Posted by nappahdog View Post
I prefer the first one now. I like how cheap rc4wd weights are.
Why not have both knuckleweight option like #2 has? I'd rather be able to use either or on one knuckle.
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:23 AM   #11
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Default Re: Sneak Peek - Bully 2 Knuckles for high angle Kyosho universals - input wanted

They probably need to have a raised flange inside the center hole for separating the bearings and allowing shimming of either bearing to place the axle shaft . For instance, the axles on one of my crawlers needs to be pushed in a slight amount to maintain the axle universal alignment within the centerline of the king pin for free rotation while turning. Hoppa said something about it on his b2 axle set also. If the axle floats back and forth even a slight amount, the kingpin top to bottom center line needs to coincide with the center of the cvd or universal being used. If you don't have any raised flange in the bearing hole, this is not possible.
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:45 AM   #12
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Default Re: Sneak Peek - Bully 2 Knuckles for high angle Kyosho universals - input wanted

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Originally Posted by Master Basher View Post
They probably need to have a raised flange inside the center hole for separating the bearings and allowing shimming of either bearing to place the axle shaft . For instance, the axles on one of my crawlers needs to be pushed in a slight amount to maintain the axle universal alignment within the centerline of the king pin for free rotation while turning. Hoppa said something about it on his b2 axle set also. If the axle floats back and forth even a slight amount, the kingpin top to bottom center line needs to coincide with the center of the cvd or universal being used. If you don't have any raised flange in the bearing hole, this is not possible.
I was waiting for someone to notice that there is no flange inside the knuckle. That was one of the first comments from my team drivers. Instead of a flange in the knuckle they use flanged bearings. This allows me to do all the machining from one side keeping manufacturing costs down. This savings is then passed on to the customer. I want these to be as affordable as possible. No shimming is necessary since the knuckles are designed with these shafts in mind.

Last edited by Calderwood; 07-17-2014 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:53 AM   #13
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Default Re: Sneak Peek - Bully 2 Knuckles for high angle Kyosho universals - input wanted

Waiting by mailbox, nats is 50 days away...
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Old 07-17-2014, 12:01 PM   #14
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Default Re: Sneak Peek - Bully 2 Knuckles for high angle Kyosho universals - input wanted

^^^^ yeah!...what he said!^^^^


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I was waiting for someone to notice that there is no flange inside the knuckle. That was one of the first comments from my team drivers. Instead of a flange in the knuckle they use flanged bearings. This allows me to do all the machining from one side keeping manufacturing costs down. This savings is then passed on to the customer. I want these to be as affordable as possible. No shimming is necessary since the knuckles are designed with these shafts in mind.
I had just assumed the drawing was just prelim and you hadn't included the bearing seat yet. Interesting idea with the flanged bearings. I'm not sure how bearing specs go, but do you think there is a possibility that different bearing companies have different thickness for the flanges? Might be something to keep in mind during design. Even the smallest difference could mean wonky kingpin/Universal alignment.

Just throwing it out there...

Last edited by TURBOFEST; 07-17-2014 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 07-17-2014, 12:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: Sneak Peek - Bully 2 Knuckles for high angle Kyosho universals - input wanted

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Originally Posted by TURBOFEST View Post
^^^^ yeah!...what he said!^^^^




I had just assumed the drawing was just prelim and you hadn't included the bearing seat yet. Interesting idea with the flanged bearings. I'm not sure how bearing specs go, but do you think there is a possibility that different bearing companies have different thickness for the flanges? Might be something to keep in mind during design. Even the smallest difference could mean wonky kingpin/Universal alignment.

Just throwing it out there...

Both drawings are complete and functional. Some protos have already been cut.

The flange thickness is not arbitrary. It is defined by the series of the bearing. Being f688 bearings they have a flange thickness of 1.1mm.


Keep the feedback coming! I'm liking the discussion.
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Old 07-17-2014, 12:42 PM   #16
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Default Re: Sneak Peek - Bully 2 Knuckles for high angle Kyosho universals - input wanted

I would prefer aluminum over any plastic, and would be ok with that costing more.
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Old 07-17-2014, 12:43 PM   #17
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Default Re: Sneak Peek - Bully 2 Knuckles for high angle Kyosho universals - input wanted

You could score big points for compatibility if you designed to use wraith type arm attachment. That would open the design way up for parts availability and compatibility. Im a big fan of the wraith knuckle design. Something to think about.

I really like the small easily changeable arms for the wraith.
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Old 07-17-2014, 12:50 PM   #18
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Default Re: Sneak Peek - Bully 2 Knuckles for high angle Kyosho universals - input wanted

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I would prefer aluminum over any plastic, and would be ok with that costing more.
And would you prefer aluminum over brass?

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Originally Posted by Master Basher View Post
You could score big points for compatibility if you designed to use wraith type arm attachment. That would open the design way up for parts availability and compatibility. Im a big fan of the wraith knuckle design. Something to think about.

I really like the small easily changeable arms for the wraith.
What would you feel like you gain by this? Zero Ackerman wraith arms wouldn't be zero Ackerman on an 1/8 scale joint since the spacing is different. I could easily offer different upper plates if you want something other than the 5mm longer (than stock) arm zero Ackerman plate shown.
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Old 07-17-2014, 12:50 PM   #19
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Default Re: Sneak Peek - Bully 2 Knuckles for high angle Kyosho universals - input wanted

Sounds like you covered all your bases!

I'm stoked to see these come to market!

Dare I ask for an E.T.A.?
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Old 07-17-2014, 12:53 PM   #20
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Default Re: Sneak Peek - Bully 2 Knuckles for high angle Kyosho universals - input wanted

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And would you prefer aluminum over brass?
Yes if I could continue to use my knuckle weights it would be weight lower and farther out than a brass knuckle.
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