Jato The Trail Finder 2 - Leaf Spring Mafia Edition

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by LSXGMC

No need for the nuts on the leaf bolts. I am pretty sure the RTR's don't have them, but could be mistaken. I never put them on my TF2 when I changed to my K44's (mounting should be relatively similar), I just used loctite and they never thought about loosening on me, and I bounced the hell out of that truck.

From what I understood, the GMade leafs are quite a bit shorter. Having said that, since you have a Sawback, give it a shot and report back.

The GMade leafs that I have are very, very similar in size to the RC4WD leafs.

Originally Posted by mhowzit

You're right. It wouldn't be the truck that I've always wanted, without the leaf springs. I just ordered all the parts I am going to need and leafs were one of them.

Yeah! I think you did the right thing.

[JatoTheRipper]

I started building the shocks last night.

The funny thing is that the dimensions on the bag seem to be the overall length instead of the more common eye to eye dimensions. Way to confuse things...



The front shocks were fairly smooth. The rear shocks had so much stiction they were unusable. When I took them apart it turns out they had some sticky substance on them. I'm not sure what it was, but it was nasty. You can see it in this photo. It's the brown stuff on the shaft. I used motor spray to clean it off. Hopefully motor spray isn't harmful to the plastic piston. The can didn't have any cautions about using it on plastics.



I decided to use 5K diff oil. That seems to be a pretty common choice for these stock shocks.



There's a first for everything and here's one of them while I was reassembling my Integy...err RC3WD shocks. The bottom threads of the shock body snapped clean off! What in the hell?! I've never had this in decades of building RCs.



I took so much time in getting these shocks filled with diff lube and getting them to rebound the same only to have the POS shock body break while tightening it. This truck truly will be RC3WD until I get a 4th shock. I guess this is an excuse to upgrade.



The upgrade shocks I'm looking at are RC4WD King shocks, RC4WD Rock Krawler RRD (these two appear to the the same shocks except with different anodizing colors and branding, correct?) or the GMade RSD shocks. 90mm and 70mm eye to eye are the lengths I need, correct?

I was just thinking - stock you have 70mm shocks up front and 90mm in the rear. With the Gelande II hoops you put the 90mm shocks in the front. So should I have 2 sets of 90mm shocks so the front and rear are equal?

[LSXGMC]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

I'm not sure what it was, but it was nasty. You can see it in this photo. It's the brown stuff on the shaft.

Nothing worse than brown stuff on your shaft. Yuck!

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

The upgrade shocks I'm looking at are RC4WD King shocks, RC4WD Rock Krawler RRD (these two appear to the the same shocks except with different anodizing colors and branding, correct?) or the GMade RSD shocks. 90mm and 70mm eye to eye are the lengths I need, correct?

For the most part, the King and RRD shocks are the same. They use the same cap, rod end, shaft, o-rings, internals, etc. The shock bodies themselves are different - the King's are smooth, and the RRD's have vertical "slots" in them. I've owned both and they look great, but they do leak (even with green slime & teflon tape on the threads), although you might have better luck running a diff oil. The holes in the pistons are large so I always ran 90wt oil in mine.

Worth mentioning here is you don't run a coil-over spring shock with leaf springs, so you'll want to run these without the springs. Coil-overs are for linked suspension. The stock shocks on the TF2 come with internal springs, but most people remove them. They should act as dampeners only.

If you do go with these, make sure to loctite the rod end on the bottom as they tend to come loose and you'll end up losing the lower spring cups.

Stock shock lengths are 90mm rear, 70mm front, eye to eye.

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

I was just thinking - stock you have 70mm shocks up front and 90mm in the rear. With the Gelande II hoops you put the 90mm shocks in the front. So should I have 2 sets of 90mm shocks so the front and rear are equal?

If you are running the GII front hoops, then yes go with 90mm on all four corners

[svt923]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

The upgrade shocks I'm looking at are RC4WD King shocks, RC4WD Rock Krawler RRD (these two appear to the the same shocks except with different anodizing colors and branding, correct?) or the GMade RSD shocks. 90mm and 70mm eye to eye are the lengths I need, correct?

I was just thinking - stock you have 70mm shocks up front and 90mm in the rear. With the Gelande II hoops you put the 90mm shocks in the front. So should I have 2 sets of 90mm shocks so the front and rear are equal?

The generic blue King-esque shocks from Ebay are pretty solid too. I run them on a couple of trucks and they have been holding up well while keeping the oil inside. My TF2 has a set of Rc4WD Superlift shocks and I really don't think they are any better than the Ebay China shocks.

4pcs 90mm CNC Shock Absorber Set for AXIAL SCX10 1/10 RC Crwaler D90 CC01 -US | eBay

As far as length goes, 90mm shocks all around is the way to go. I don't see it needing anything longer.

[Natedog]

Originally Posted by whitrzac

rc4wd never updates their kits. The SWB kit included curved shims for the leafsprings and the yota 2 axles housings are 1 piece.

I use 3mm socket head screws for drive pins... They might go in a little tight the first time, do not use stainless hardware.

rc3wd didn't come out of nowhere...

Yes, I love their scale stuff, but damn they need to do some serious updating to their products and job one should be quality!

Don't forget the screws that sometimes break the head in half if properly torqued.

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

I started building the shocks last night...


...There's a first for everything and here's one of them while I was reassembling my Integy...err RC3WD shocks. The bottom threads of the shock body snapped clean off! What in the hell?! I've never had this in decades of building RCs.

I took so much time in getting these shocks filled with diff lube and getting them to rebound the same only to have the POS shock body break while tightening it. This truck truly will be RC3WD until I get a 4th shock. I guess this is an excuse to upgrade.

That's some seriously thinly machined aluminum, not even knurled caps and just snapped right off. Ebay shocks that Svt923 recommended sound good. Price is right and can always strip off the blue or some of it if you don't like the color, I'm not a fan of it.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by LSXGMC

Nothing worse than brown stuff on your shaft. Yuck!

Originally Posted by LSXGMC

For the most part, the King and RRD shocks are the same. They use the same cap, rod end, shaft, o-rings, internals, etc. The shock bodies themselves are different - the King's are smooth, and the RRD's have vertical "slots" in them. I've owned both and they look great, but they do leak (even with green slime & teflon tape on the threads), although you might have better luck running a diff oil. The holes in the pistons are large so I always ran 90wt oil in mine.

Interesting that they are slightly different.

The leakage is why I'm contemplating trying the GMade RSD shocks. GMade shocks are typically pretty good. Sure, they are 1mm larger in diameter than the King and RRD shocks, but if that means they don't leak it's a good tradeoff in my opinion

Originally Posted by LSXGMC

Worth mentioning here is you don't run a coil-over spring shock with leaf springs, so you'll want to run these without the springs. Coil-overs are for linked suspension. The stock shocks on the TF2 come with internal springs, but most people remove them. They should act as dampeners only.

If you do go with these, make sure to loctite the rod end on the bottom as they tend to come loose and you'll end up losing the lower spring cups.

Stock shock lengths are 90mm rear, 70mm front, eye to eye.

Yep, I know the shocks are dampers and not "suspenders" in this case. The leaf springs do all the suspending. I learned from my Sawback that it really pays to have good shocks/dampers with leaf springs.

The stock Sawback really hops and bounces while spinning on rocks. The losing and regaining traction upsets the truck and gets the leaf springs bouncing. Oil dampers really help this and I would think this is also true on the TF2.

Originally Posted by LSXGMC

If you are running the GII front hoops, then yes go with 90mm on all four corners

Thanks! I think I read that new2rocks runs 100mm in the rear, but he limits them to 95mm. So 90mm all the way around made sense to me.

Originally Posted by svt923

The generic blue King-esque shocks from Ebay are pretty solid too. I run them on a couple of trucks and they have been holding up well while keeping the oil inside. My TF2 has a set of Rc4WD Superlift shocks and I really don't think they are any better than the Ebay China shocks.

4pcs 90mm CNC Shock Absorber Set for AXIAL SCX10 1/10 RC Crwaler D90 CC01 -US | eBay

As far as length goes, 90mm shocks all around is the way to go. I don't see it needing anything longer.

Thanks for the info! Are those eBay shocks as small in diameter as the RC4WD shocks?

[Natedog]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

Interesting that they are slightly different.

The leakage is why I'm contemplating trying the GMade RSD shocks. GMade shocks are typically pretty good. Sure, they are 1mm larger in diameter than the King and RRD shocks, but if that means they don't leak it's a good tradeoff in my opinion...

1mm larger diameter? Do the GMades then, hopefully they'll at least hold oil and gotta be better than that blue anodizing.

[svt923]

Originally Posted by Natedog

Ebay shocks that Svt923 recommended sound good. Price is right and can always strip off the blue or some of it if you don't like the color, I'm not a fan of it.

I actually have a set I stripped and they look way better that way. Need to get a picture of them.

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

Thanks for the info! Are those eBay shocks as small in diameter as the RC4WD shocks?

They are the same dimensions as the scale King shocks, I used the RC4WD King springs on them when I needed a firmer spring.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by Natedog

1mm larger diameter? Do the GMades then, hopefully they'll at least hold oil and gotta be better than that blue anodizing.

GMades are 1mm larger than the RC4WD Kings, but they are 2.2mm larger than the stock shocks.

I kinda like the blue shade on the Kings. The eBay blue not so much.

[JatoTheRipper]

Here's the only photo I've seen that shows the GMade RSD shocks in the same photo as the RC4WD boingers. There is a definitely difference in size. Not sure if I'd like that on the TF2. Hmm

[LSXGMC]

Keep in mind that you really only see them on the bench. You won’t notice them on the trail. So either pick quality or looks because you aren’t going to have the best of both. The RSD is a happy medium.

[JatoTheRipper]

Despite the one broken leg, I couldn't resist mounting all the shocks so I could get the wheels on. I wanted to see a roller.

Sweet! "mrgreen"


I wonder how bad those front tires are going to rub.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by LSXGMC

Keep in mind that you really only see them on the bench. You won’t notice them on the trail. So either pick quality or looks because you aren’t going to have the best of both. The RSD is a happy medium.

The black of the RSD shocks will hide them even more. But I don't know if I want to hide or see the shocks. On real trucks I always loved when the shocks were a color that stood out so you noticed them. The King shocks would stand out. But they are also a heck of a lot more money than the RSDs. I will probably order the RSDs before the end of the day.

[LSXGMC]

The King shocks look awesome. Keyword look. They aren’t the best for dampening IMO. But damn they look good!

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by LSXGMC

The King shocks look awesome. Keyword look. They aren’t the best for dampening IMO. But damn they look good!

The more RC4WD products I buy the more I think that statement summarizes the company in general.

I ordered four of the 90mm RSD shocks about 20 minutes ago.

[LSXGMC]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

The more RC4WD products I buy the more I think that statement summarizes the company in general.

I ordered four of the 90mm RSD shocks about 20 minutes ago.

I think most folks are too hard on RC4WD. Their quality isn't top-notch per se which is mostly due to material choice. Having said that, I've never broken anything of theirs that I've owned. But they are fantastic at making things look great, and fairly durable (I'd imagine that's a hard thing fro you to agree with right now).

I have had about three issues with their products in the past and every time I was sent a replacement part without any hassle. I'd do the same for your shock, and then if you don't want to run them, you can probably sell them quite easily and pay for most of your RSD's.

I think the RSD was a good choice for this build.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by LSXGMC

I think most folks are too hard on RC4WD. Their quality isn't top-notch per se which is mostly due to material choice. Having said that, I've never broken anything of theirs that I've owned. But they are fantastic at making things look great, and fairly durable (I'd imagine that's a hard thing fro you to agree with right now).

I have had about three issues with their products in the past and every time I was sent a replacement part without any hassle. I'd do the same for your shock, and then if you don't want to run them, you can probably sell them quite easily and pay for most of your RSD's.

Eh. They sell Chinese-quality products at high to-mid prices. They are like Integy, but people accept and let RC4WD slide where they would tear Integy (or any other Chinese company) apart and classify it as "Chinese junk." It's a very odd dynamic to me.

So far RC4WD CS has been fairly quick to respond, but they want everything shipped back before they will replace anything. That's not good CS. Good CS says, in a round about way "We screwed up. We will send you replacements and a box to return the defective items." Bad CS makes a customer wait despite it not being said customer's fault.

Originally Posted by LSXGMC

I think the RSD was a good choice for this build.

Thanks! I hope so. And thank you for steering me that way. I think you are right.

[LSXGMC]

Weird - they’ve always just sent me the part without having to return anything. At least they’re doing something, I guess. You’d think the most efficient way would be to send you a new shock and you send your old one back in the same box but hey, logic isn’t for everyone and common sense isn’t all that common anymore.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by LSXGMC

Weird - they’ve always just sent me the part without having to return anything. At least they’re doing something, I guess. You’d think the most efficient way would be to send you a new shock and you send your old one back in the same box but hey, logic isn’t for everyone and common sense isn’t all that common anymore.

The "fix" they suggested for the screw threading right through the short driveshaft and the transmission output shaft was to put blue thread lock on it and let it sit for 24 hours. There is nothing to hold the screw. There should be a stop somewhere in there if it was designed and made properly. Blue thread lock is not epoxy. That's when they suggested I send the transmission back so it could be exchanged.

[LSXGMC]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

The "fix" they suggested for the screw threading right through the short driveshaft and the transmission output shaft was to put blue thread lock on it and let it sit for 24 hours. There is nothing to hold the screw. There should be a stop somewhere in there if it was designed and made properly. Blue thread lock is not epoxy. That's when they suggested I send the transmission back so it could be exchanged.

Geniuses.

It's too bad that this build has these issues putting a bad taste in your mouth. I hope they all get resolved easily for you, as the TF2 platform is pretty great and you will have a lot of fun with it. Like Nate said though, its due for an update.